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Could someone explain why Azir has a dash?

doubleguac··9 votes·3,243 views

Balancing a game like League of Legends is a seriously hard job. Even when Riot's design/balance decisions don't work out, I can usually understand the thought process behind them. That being said, I simply cannot fathom the rationale for giving Azir a dash.

He has among the highest effective range of any champion in the game. He has an extremely low cooldown slow. His ult not only knocks targets back, it then walls off the area, and it cannot be dashed over. He can make turrets with his passive, which gives him one more way to hunker down and avoid melee aggression.

And on top of all of this, he has a dash with a potentially massive range, that he can slightly alter the course of mid flight.

Melee vs. ranged balance has been a hot topic recently. People have been complaining for months that low mobility melees are getting boxed out of the game. In this atmosphere, Riot released a champion that feels like he was designed to be as immune to melee aggression as a champion can possibly be, without straight-up having a passive that reads "cannot be targeted by melee range auto attacks." Even melees with dashes have an extremely hard time ever interacting with this guy.

I ban Azir every game. Not because I think he's wildly overpowered. Not because I think that I can't win against a team that has Azir. But because he's so annoying to play against. It's amazing how hard an Azir has to screw up to take damage from any source with lower than 700 range.

It feels like we are just coming out of the Ziggs meta. Everyone was complaining about how frustrating it was to play against a champion with such strong long range poke and disengage. Now we have Azir--a champion who is much, much harder to engage on than Ziggs ever was (although he does have slightly less strong poke/wave clear).

I'm sure it's going to be possible to balance Azir. He might already be balanced... I don't have strong opinions on his holistic power level. But I cannot imagine how Riot is going to manage to make him fun to play against.

24 Comments

DropFill6 votes

He has dps, burst, a way to disengage, can create turrets, make impassible terrain, and mid-high range. I don't know why he hasn't been nerfed yet

doubleguac2 votes

Like I said in my post, I don't have strong opinions about his holistic balance. He might be balanced, or he might be overpowered, I don't really know.

This isn't an "Azir OP" thread. This is a "holy crap this champion is annoying, how can Riot justify giving him this much disengage?" thread.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

{quoted}

He has dps, burst, a way to disengage, can create turrets, make impassible terrain, and mid-high range. I don't know why he hasn't been nerfed yet

I'll tell you why. Because the assassin meta of today takes a huge dump on him. Zed doesn't care about Azir's ult because he can ult over it. Fizz can troll pole over it. Any champion with a blink can essentially ignore Azir's ult. Azir's towers grant gold to their killer when they die (100 non-global gold) and Azir has an abhorrent early game.

In the late game, you can deal with Azir by not standing next to his soldiers.

Hilltop Sunset4 votes

They probably justify it because it's slightly more complicated to use properly than a simple point-and-click dash like Vi's, and relies heavily on the utilization of your other two abilities.

doubleguac4 votes

I get what you're saying, but I hate this mind set. Riot has recently been releasing a lot of very complicated, high skill cap champions who are incredibly frustrating to face when they are played well.

Yes, I'm sure it takes a few games to really get the hang of. But that doesn't make his kit any less annoying when you are playing against an Azir who has those games under his belt, and knows what he is doing.

Having a high skill cap isn't a justification for mechanics or power that shouldn't be there in the first place. In my opinion, Azir's dash shouldn't be there in the first place. Champions should be balanced with the assumption that a skilled player is using them. Balancing champions around the assumption that an unskilled player is going to be screwing up half their mechanics is how we end up with champions like pre-nerf Yasuo, Syndra, and Lee Sin.

Horrow5 votes

I get what you're saying, but I hate this mind set.

Do you know how annoying it is to play Azir well? When you first start off with him, you're more likely to get THRASHED by the enemy team as opposed of going even on your K/D/A. If you win, it'll mainly be due to your team hard carrying you so the point of you being a bad Azir won't matter. Its frustrating playing Azir when you don't understand him. Does that mean every other champion should be nerfed to make it easier to play him? No.

So when someone does finally become good with him, they deserve to be able to demolish people who DON'T know how to play against a proper Azir. That's called LOGIC. You don't know how to face something? Of course you'll get destroyed by it. Just like how they had to go through the trial of learning how to properly play Azir, YOU need to go through the trial of learning how to fight a proper Azir. Its a two way street.

doubleguac2 votes

they deserve to be able to demolish people who DON'T know how to play against a proper Azir.

It's not about "not knowing how to play against him." It's about how ridiculously safe he is when he's well played. It doesn't matter how familiar you are with his kit, if you are a melee without at least two gap closers, his kit makes him impossible to interact with.

There are plenty of high skill cap champions I don't have a problem with. I'm not complaining that he's OP when he's played well. I'm complaining that his kit is toxic when he's played well.

Vayne is an example of a high skill cap champion who still has plenty of satisfying and dynamic counterplay, even when she's played well. When Azir is played well, he's practically immune to aggression from 80% of the champion roster.

You're only argument is that "he's hard to play." This is a total non sequitur. How hard he is to play has nothing to do with the specific complaint I'm leveling--that a champion with as much range and disengage as him doesn't need a giant dash on top of it.

Zarg4 votes

Because he's a bird, yet we don't know what kind of bird. Damn you, Riot.

Narasimha2 votes

In this atmosphere, Riot released a champion that feels like he was designed to be as immune to melee aggression

Pretttyyy sure that was Kalista. But anyway, he's considered fine because his moves have more consequences than your average midlaner. Poke with Q? Now he's vulnerable to all ins. Try to dash away with E? One of the most predictable moves ever. Puts up a wall with his ult? I mean, its an ULT. I can do the same thing with Anivia for much less, and she's arguablely just as much anti-melee.

Psyturkey2 votes

I don't really understand people claiming Azir's range is some kind of crazy, maybe I'm just bad though.

His Q has decent range, sure. But the bulk of his (significant) damage comes from his soldiers attacking, which requires you to be well within engagement range.

Sure, Udyr is never going to be a threat to you, but honestly that's a systemic problem with immobile bruisers - Azir is pretty anti-immobile melee, sure but that's a fine niche to fill. The problem is that the game is anti-immobile melee at its foundation and asking Azir to pay for that isn't going to make the game any more friendly to those champions.

As is Azir's kit offers a fair bit of counter play. He's quite vulnerable to flanking and straight up rush down. Remember if he's dashing away from you it means his soldiers aren't in a position to hurt you. If you flank him he can only knock one of you away and frankly, if a Bruiser or assassin (or even some of the more damage heavy tanks) gets on him he dies the saem as any squishy.

Another important thing is that Azir just doesn't burst like a lot of APs burst. His damage is high, maybe too high but it's not burst damage it's sustained damage. This is important because in order to deal his damage he has to keep in range of your team and keep your team in range of his soldiers. Most APs can deal their damage while mostly running away, pausing only when their CDs come up to burst, in this manner Azir is actually less mobile than other APs outside of his dash because his damage requires him to remain in range where other APs only have to remain in range for a second or two when their CDs come up making Azir comparatively targettable.

Ironclad Dragon1 votes

An emperor always keeps an escape route.

SKT T1 Cashe1 votes

I play Azir. He is insanely weak early game if you don't have that Attack Speed/Cool-Down going for you.... or even Mana Regen sense he chucks a ton of it if you're not careful. His "dash", if we can call it that, heavily relies on his sand soldiers which he can only summon not to far from him and he has to move his mouse over a sand soldier and use the ability again to "dash" to it.

A good azir, in my opinion sense it works, would build...

[1.] item 3174 or item 3165
(depending if you losing or winning lane lane, but you almost always get the Unholy Grail first) [2.] item 3089 (for making your sand soldiers hit harder sense your 1st item can give you just enough attack speed for now) [3.] item 3115 (Attack Speed, some AP, and to max out your Cool-Down) [4.] item 3046 (Gotta go fast) [5.] item 3157 (For that massive AP boost and if you get in a sketchy situation) [6.] item 3060 (And just an item to play it safe sense you are OP at this point. You gain some HP, AP, allies get a small buff, and can promote a minion for that little extra push)

Junkο1 votes

PD, Banner of Command and no boots. Just wow

SKT T1 Cashe1 votes

And I still kill people. Shocker, huhh? sorry that you missed that I said they it works for me.

Phantom Dancer gives me a good bit of attack speed and move speed so I don't even need boots. Besides, I have runes for move speed anyway. You don't always need boots either. You are Azir, why would you rush the enemy team away from allies or towers? The goal is for Azir to give the enemy team poke hell.

Banner of Command because it works and you're still mass murdering people before you get this item anyway sense the attack speed and magic damage from the soldiers pierce through every enemy no matter how tanky they are. So how would a little extra AP, HP, the AoE buff, and the ability to promote a tank minion be bad?

Again, I still kill people with this build so you have no say this is a bad item set-up xD

Junkο1 votes

Why are you even buying so much AS. 1 soldier AA with a normal build will deal more damage than 3 soldiers will in 3 AAs with your build.

also you said

A good azir...would build

SKT T1 Cashe1 votes

I have attack speed because I can get so much damage off onto the enemy. Did you fail to read anything I wrote? The goal of Azir is to give them poke hell which means give them no rest as you pluck their HP away to nothing sense you have a ton of AP anyway

And I so love you just zoned in on that tiny part of what I said... Lets seeeee.... If I kill people a bunch of times with this build, then I would think it was a good build. Therefor. I am a good Azir. And that is a good build for myself.

Puaru1 votes

Start item 1056 or item 2041 if you are against someone who you feel will out bully you.

Finish item 3165 as your first item, it's mandatory.

Next item is item 3158, this puts you at 40% CDR with the mastery and saves you from having to buy item 3115 which is a bad item for Azir.

Now you are flexible. If there is a Zed you obviously want to get item 3157, if not you can go item 3089.

After that it's totally up to you, that's why Azir is so great, he only needs those first two items then can do whatever he wants.

SKT T1 Cashe1 votes

I always start off with a item 1056 for my mages so I never bothered to put it in the list sense I sell it soon after I get my 1st item. item 3115 is debatable. It still gives a good bit of AP and Attack Speed which can make the sand soldiers poke a lot more at a faster pace. Makes a difference if the enemy is escaping with little to no HP or not and you last hit them.

item 3174 or item 3165 both give cool-down and AP as well as mana-regen so they are a first buy to me. As Unholy Grail can give MR which is why I whichever suited my fancy if I am slightly losing my lane or not.

Now I buy boot every now and then but I have move speed rune(s) so having them on Azir, who is great at poking from behind allies, feels pointless to me. Now, I COULD buy the item 3158 for only a tiny bit of CD and move speed or I could buy the item 3115 for the AS, AP, and the CD. Again, I myself move fast enough that I can buy boots if I really needed too or not.

I do agree if you are fighting Zed , the item 3157 is the best item to choose. Only if you are fighting zed though. But the AP you get from it is nice.

And then the item 3089 is a staple of mages that every mage should get and you should really get this as early as possible whenever after the 1st item so the AP has a chance to stack up.

DrCyanide1 votes

Thank Velkoz , the mid lane mage without mobility who everyone promptly forgot until he showed up bot lane.

While I agree that Azir doesn't need the mobility, I don't think Riot is going to make an immobile champion any time soon.

Wheatloaf1 votes

If Azir wants to dash in, he has to be prepared for the consequences of being a glass cannon mage staring into the eyes of the enemy's front-line. If he wants to dash out, he has to either already have a soldier out of the way (which requires foresight, and lowers his outright damage output), or move every soldier he has on the field away from where they can actually deal damage. He has to sacrifice something for his dash other than the cooldown of the skill (which is pretty long) or the damage of the skill. There are plenty of champions that lose a lot less when using their dash in any capacity cough LeBlanc cough.

And when it comes to immobile melees not being able to get to him... well, yeah, if Azir plays like a boss, you're going to have to put in some work to get to him. Immobile champions in general require some for of CC in order to engage a fight, so you have to play around that weakness whether Azir is on the enemy team or not.

The Trent1 votes

He hasn't been nerfed cus of Veigar Just play Veigar He can't do shit if ur Veigar Not like anyone will actually ban Veigar Sure u might lose lane but u can still one shot him mid game and late game so Veigar

Leti the Yeti1 votes

Imo Azir is pretty difficult to use soldier stock management soldier/azir positoning the dash has a very short range and extending/changing directions with it via Q required quite alot of skill and speed otherwise your gains are none

I find that high skill cap is justiying a champions strengths is okay, so long as it is absolutely mandatory for the user to ahve such high skill cap to use it effectively this is why we have problems with Lee Sin and Yi(yes Yi has a high skill cap, not that we ever see it cuz it is not required to roflestomp)

so Azir is okay, you wont be seeing generic Azirs pulling off long dashes or direction changing dashes without said skill

Homeshake1 votes

Honestly Azir has far too many options in a single kit to ever be called balanced. just like many other champions in the game, who recieved constant nerfs until they werent pick/ban of the month.

Michaelcarnero1 votes

I agree with u brother, because if u know what are u doing, u can put a soldier in front of u, kite a little bit the melee champion, and when he arrives to u, dash (e) knock him + auto shield 220 + 60%ap and start again, he will go straigh to u, then use ur Q, slow plus dmg, + ulti, and restart again with the kite... results. Melee dead by near from the soldiers meanwhiel he was chasing u. Sorry for the english, I'm spanish and the google corrector is a shit, so I do my best effort. Ty.

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