am i the only one who feels like riots attitude towards the game changes ?

Knight SoIaire ·Jul 2, 2015·2 votes·219 views

From "everything needs to be perfect and cant have drawbacks so we wont do anything cause it has downsides" to "lets just pump stuff out ... who even cares if it works" ?

8 Comments

SerevasJul 2, 20151 votes

I'm not sure I follow. What exactly are they "pumping out" that is nonfunctional?

Knight SoIaire Jul 2, 20151 votes

ballance changes ... reworks ... items

and its not that they dont work but most of the time rioters change stuff for a reason ... but the change itself contradicts that reason they seem more active but the actions dont seem to make sence

GreenLoreJul 2, 20151 votes

Overall their champs have become more complex overtime with bigger strenghts but also bigger weaknesses.

Sure there'll be always cases where a champ turns out op or up,but thats not something new.

Knight SoIaire Jul 2, 20151 votes

i dont mean champions specificaly

KazaashiJul 2, 20151 votes

Riot is moving away from passive benefits, which creates champions and teams that are just a conglomeration of stats and numbers. Which ever teams numbers are higher wins. Very binary gameplay and ultimately boring in the long run.

Now they are attempting to create active benefits and drawbacks to items, item builds, and champion selections. This allows for more improvisational play, as the onus is on the player to effectively use the items and champions in a wide variety of situations and stratagies.

Overall, it's a good thing.

Knight SoIaire Jul 2, 20151 votes

thats again not what i mean

what i find to be the bad thing here is not that riot creates more stuff ... but that they seem to rush and decide fast without much thought into it

but when dfg gets removed due to making bursty patterns more bursty it gets replaced with ludens doing the same thing just less powerfully and more often

when azir gets nerfed due to him bullying lanes and riot nerfs to prevent that specific occurence ... they nerf his late game and barely even touch his laning power

its good that riot takes action and they improved in many ways but i find it to occur often that they take action just to take action ... to silence the players or to kill the problem fast ... but rash action creates problems so in the end riot tries to fix fk ups with fk ups

now to revive the dewourer they made the sated thingy ... first of all what champions does it support ? late game junglers ? vayne is a late game jungler now i suppose
instead of appealing to junglers this item appeals to a very specific group of champions who also lane much if the item pushes them higher in power (and it will) we can get 2 results a)item gets killed and sucks just like before the change b)champions get nerfed ... meaning that they are only viable with the item and cant play lanes any more there is also c : both ... red smite rising was treated this way (poor ww)

KazaashiJul 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gE3EREKz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-07-02T21:57:35.045+0000)

thats again not what i mean

what i find to be the bad thing here is not that riot creates more stuff ... but that they seem to rush and decide fast without much thought into it

Just because something is on the PEB for a few weeks, doesn't mean that Riot hasn't put a significant amount of time and effort into planning it out and making it work. I work in the software development field, and trust me, nothing gets done unless a lot of people have talked about it an planned it out.

but when dfg gets removed due to making bursty patterns more bursty it gets replaced with ludens doing the same thing just less powerfully and more often

There is no counterplay to someone smacking you with DFG and getting 20% increased dmg, it just happens and you have to deal with it. There is a lot more counterplay to Ludens because you can just have good positioning and avoid the poke from it.

when azir gets nerfed due to him bullying lanes and riot nerfs to prevent that specific occurence ... they nerf his late game and barely even touch his laning power

His laning power comes from the zone control his kit provides. It's hard to nerf that and still have him distinct and relevant. Smart play on Azir has very big rewards, but such is the nature of a low skill floor/high skill cap champion.

its good that riot takes action and they improved in many ways but i find it to occur often that they take action just to take action ... to silence the players or to kill the problem fast ... but rash action creates problems so in the end riot tries to fix fk ups with fk ups

It can sometimes be hard to see the reasons why Riot does things, but you have to understand that they have access to a lot more data than we can see. There design philosophy isn't to make the game 100% balanced and even, that's boring. They are more looking to tweak the game, see how the playerbase reacts and what the data tells them, tweak more, see how players and data change, etc, etc. It's on ongoing, organic process often called "Perfect Imbalance"

Youtube video on "Imperfect Balance" www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

now to revive the dewourer they made the sated thingy ... first of all what champions does it support ? late game junglers ? vayne is a late game jungler now i suppose

Stated Devourer is gonna be awesome. I can't wait to slaughter some people with Shy jungle. All the monster camps will be mine. /evilgrin

instead of appealing to junglers this item appeals to a very specific group of champions who also lane much if the item pushes them higher in power (and it will) we can get 2 results a)item gets killed and sucks just like before the change b)champions get nerfed ... meaning that they are only viable with the item and cant play lanes any more there is also c : both ... red smite rising was treated this way (poor ww)

If a laner takes smite, they are sacrificing a lot of kill pressure, map presence, or sustain. Since the jungle item will be itemized to assist the jungler, a lot of those stats are pretty much wasted. Sure they can farm the jungle to make use of them, but then you are gimping your jungler. I don't think Riot wants to kill Smite laners, because this opens up some new and interesting team comps, they just want to make sure it's not OP. And that takes time and patience.

Knight SoIaire Jul 2, 20151 votes

There is no counterplay to someone smacking you with DFG and getting 20% increased dmg, it just happens and you have to deal with it. There is a lot more counterplay to Ludens because you can just have good positioning and avoid the poke from it.

by the same example you can dodge enemy spells when he hits you with dfg ... dfg alone wont kill you

in the end those items are equal ... what dfg gained by being point and click nuke ludens make up with lower cdr and not being completly forced into 100-0 burst pattern

but in the end those items serwe the same purpose which riot stated wasnt meant to be

His laning power comes from the zone control his kit provides. It's hard to nerf that and still have him distinct and relevant. Smart play on Azir has very big rewards, but such is the nature of a low skill floor/high skill cap champion.

zone controll backed up by damage if azir is not meant to bully lanes just reduce his early damage or even better make his early cooldowns significant (espacialy on his q) and keep the late game damage the same so azir comes to lane vulnerable like any hypercarry is supposed to (besides vayne)

it doesnttake a genius to find what areas need to be touched to archieve his hypercarry fantasy without making him opresive in lane

but instead riot gutted the core of his late game power ... and azir is kinda forced to bully lanes because he wont get that much of late anymore and thats kinda the core of the hypercarry ... he isnt that relevant early ... what he aims for is playing optimaly to allow himself and his team to reach late game where he will be owerly relewant ... basic powercurve

It can sometimes be hard to see the reasons why Riot does things, but you have to understand that they have access to a lot more data than we can see. There design philosophy isn't to make the game 100% balanced and even, that's boring. They are more looking to tweak the game, see how the playerbase reacts and what the data tells them, tweak more, see how players and data change, etc, etc. It's on ongoing, organic process often called "Perfect Imbalance"

isnt the perfect imballance coming from the fact that one thing is superior to other but infertior to even diferent stuff ... which creates a dynamic ballance from game to game (too lazy to watch the video)

stuff should be equalized design wise not ballance wise btw lets look at mordekaiser ... what is he good at and what he competes to his team ... medicore magic damage with low range tied to it why would you take mordekaiser mid ower lets say ahri who has similar damage longer range mobility cc and sustain to back it up ... i see no reasons .... unless your team already runns 4 carries and you need a meele bodyy shield

but lets look at mordekaiser top still loads of picks who can compete more to a team and thereare even some picks who can outdo morde at everytihng thats imballance ... and not the perfect one to be exact ... since one thing can be countered by everything while other can be countered by nothing

ofc riot tries to even the odds thanks to numbers ... but there is a problem if numbers are too high mordekaiser starts being resistant to interaction ... becuase he winns all meele fights or just pokes harder than anything else in the game ... and that is even higher imballance ... add flash and this can escalate even higher

even when we take this from other side .... well i wont explain look at the example Elise (a generalist nerfed number wise becuase her kit is too loaded) if champions are not equal when it comes to simply compeeting into the game we get loads of crap becuase numbers cant make it work correctly

if those diferences wouldnt be this big ... numbers would be more effective

kit is the base power ... numbers are a multiplier perfect imballabnce comes from kit's filling diferent roles but having similar power owerall (so counterpicks exist... but not the useless champions)... not from numbers compensating for a kit without anything on it

If a laner takes smite, they are sacrificing a lot of kill pressure, map presence, or sustain. Since the jungle item will be itemized to assist the jungler, a lot of those stats are pretty much wasted. Sure they can farm the jungle to make use of them, but then you are gimping your jungler. I don't think Riot wants to kill Smite laners, because this opens up some new and interesting team comps, they just want to make sure it's not OP. And that takes time and patience.

it is even harder kit amplification than dfg ... champions will be ballanced around this

and again what does it serwe ... some random idea of shaking the game a little because ranked is as fun as it is with 6 banns (i hate banns ... riot gets to screw up and gives us a button to contain this crap ... then people want more banns instead of upping the quality of "perfect imballance")

lane smite ... its not realy a strat ... the strat is obtainiung the jungle items which prove to make champions simply hella strong so its worth even if you waste a summoner spell slot on it ... ofc there are bbenefits to smite on toplane but they are too minor to other spells so in the end it isnt smite top ... its jungle item top

when i read surrender at 20 or any stuff i just wonder what are those guys thinking ... so much contradictions ... so much random stuff

there is literaly no direction in their actions