1sT Nerf to Swain in the history

KONO RUBICK DA·Nov 23, 2015·24 votes·1,962 views

so i wondered why a balanced champ is nerfed

oh right, because people can't build EC

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/50610009.jpg

43 Comments

RedCycloneNov 24, 20158 votes

No one remembers the healing nerfs he got consistently on his ult in season 2?

KONO RUBICK DANov 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No one remembers the healing nerfs he got consistently on his ult in season 2?

Decrepify Ability power ratio increased to 0.9 from 0.75 Fixed a bug where it would slow through Highlander or Ragnarok Fixed a bug where the damage portion sometimes would not stop after leaving the area Nevermove ability power ratio increased to 0.7 from 0.5 Torment Damage increased to 75 / 115 / 155 / 195 / 235 from 72 / 110 / 148 / 186 / 224 Ability power ratio increased to 0.8 from 0.6 Carrion Renewal regen increased to 300% from 250%

Decrepify leash range slightly increased Torment range increased to 625 from 600 Ravenous Flock cooldown decreased to 10 seconds from 15 seconds

Carrion Renewal now restores mana instantly

Ravenous Flock now heals Swain for 50% of the actual damage he deals (instead of 50% of the raw damage he deals), but the heal is not reduced if the damage is shielded

is this the one you talk about? because riot did the same with all healing in the game

Basic attack frame speed increased Ravenous Flock upkeep cost reduced to 5 / 6 / 7 mana from 5 / 7 / 9

Ravenous Flock now heals Swain for 75% of damage dealt versus champions, and 25% versus minions

same thing happened to fiddle/warwick/irelia every healing champ

Basic attack ranged increased to 500 from 480 Decrepify Range increased to 625 from 600 Slow increased at later ranks to 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40% from 20 / 23 / 26 / 29 / 32% Ravenous Flock cooldown reduced to 8 seconds form 10 seconds

Now additionally restores 9% of maximum Mana on champion kill/assis

PennsNov 23, 20154 votes

balanced

Kappa

KONO RUBICK DANov 23, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Kappa

his heal costs him his entier mana his range sucks which makes him cc'able his W is delayed and has a high delay he doesn't have instant waveclear his heal can be countered %hp damage brings him to taric's tier he can't kill bruisers unlike brand

PennsNov 23, 20152 votes

Mid game not a lot of mana actually. His W has total 1025 range, the rest of his abilities have 625 or more... Thats not considered "high range" for a mage, but he certainly reaches every adc other than Cait or some others with range buffing abilities if they want to aa him. The delay on W is less than 1 second and its pretty easy to land from what Ive seen + he has a ranged point and click 20-40% slow. He doesnt have awesome waveclear, but its good. Or at least good enough for a champ thats not supposed to clear waves. To an extent... But if you have Mortal Reminder/ Morello, youre most likely a squishy... So youre dead anyway while he presses Zhonyas Ive never seen Brand be able to actually kill a bruiser and idk why people say that he can... I mean he is a burst champ, what does 2% max HP dmg per second really do when that Renekton with 2-3 items basically oneshots him? Still, Swain can just buy a item 3151 too.

KONO RUBICK DANov 23, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Mid game not a lot of mana actually. His W has total 1025 range, the rest of his abilities have 625 or more... Thats not considered "high range" for a mage, but he certainly reaches every adc other than Cait or some others with range buffing abilities if they want to aa him. The delay on W is less than 1 second and its pretty easy to land from what Ive seen + he has a ranged point and click 20-40% slow. He doesnt have awesome waveclear, but its good. Or at least good enough for a champ thats not supposed to clear waves. To an extent... But if you have Mortal Reminder/ Morello, youre most likely a squishy... So youre dead anyway while he presses Zhonyas Ive never seen Brand be able to actually kill a bruiser and idk why people say that he can... I mean he is a burst champ, what does 2% max HP dmg per second really do when that Renekton with 2-3 items basically oneshots him? Still, Swain can just buy a too.

the delay on his W is 0.85 sec which gives you the time to travel nearly 350 units which is the radius of his W imo his W has 900 range which sucks because it's delayed again

s = [0.25 + (25+2M)/a + 625/a^2] ^ 0.5 - 25/a - 0.5

according to riot, this is the formula of how many time swain can be under ulti

with m=1000 mana which is his mana in mid game, swain can lasts 12 sec under ulti assuming he doesn't casts other spells

PennsNov 23, 20152 votes

If m= 750 (because of his other spells); then s= nearly 13... Idk who made a mistake (I cant make mistakes tho Kappa123), but even if we just take 10 seconds, Swain ult still heals for 1125 HP if you hit 3 minions every second and you have 300 AP. Probably even more tho since magic pen does things too I think.

KONO RUBICK DANov 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If m= 750 (because of his other spells); then s= nearly 13... Idk who made a mistake (I cant make mistakes tho Kappa123), but even if we just take 10 seconds, Swain ult still heals for 1125 HP if you hit 3 minions every second and you have 300 AP. Probably even more tho since magic pen does things too I think.

if m=750 and a=7 because it costs 7 MORE MANA each seconds then s= nearly 9

PennsNov 24, 20151 votes

Yeah I went with a=6 because mid game he wont have rank 3 ult that often

KONO RUBICK DANov 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I went with a=6 because mid game he wont have rank 3 ult that often

my bad

dEAdbUsNov 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But if you have Mortal Reminder/ Morello, youre most likely a squishy... So youre dead anyway while he presses Zhonyas

Buy QSS, remove Swain's dots, kill him.

Stiv1234Nov 23, 20151 votes

Swain is countered by one simple principle: Stay out of his range or die.

Mael broNov 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Swain is countered by one simple principle: Stay out of his range or die.

I Agree since he possesses one of those archaic champion designs with less options of counterplay. Similiar to Ryze Leblanc Kayle TwistedFate Evelynn XinZhao Annie I mean the only way to beat them is be stronger than them and kill them before they kill you.

ModKnightsKemplarNov 24, 20151 votes

Not really... Drain tanks provide an interesting need for burst damage on your squad. If you focus Swain, ain't nothing he can do about it.

Gregor GysiNov 23, 20154 votes

The deathfire mastery works really well with DOT champions. Riot already confirmed that they want to do something about this mastery being very strong with DOTs but weak with burst, however it seems they delayed that plan and stick with simply nerfing the DOT mages.

3TWarriorNov 24, 20152 votes

ah, nothing like nerfing a champion that is countered by 50% of the champion roster XD

if he goes mid, he will die to every mage not named katarina or galio or zed(because their ratios combined with range aren't enogh to outscale swain)

if he goes top, he is a nuisance but a large majority of the champions are tanks, his least favorite matchup and he won't be able to successfully farm while the tank will scale

KONO RUBICK DANov 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The deathfire mastery works really well with DOT champions. Riot already confirmed that they want to do something about this mastery being very strong with DOTs but weak with burst, however it seems they delayed that plan and stick with simply nerfing the DOT mages.

swain dots aren't nerfed, it's his W for reasons????

beside, the deathfire mastery is being also nerfed

Gregor GysiNov 24, 20152 votes

Yeah, ff20 didn't show the mastery changes at first. Good ol' Riot doublenerfing.

asamuNov 23, 20153 votes

Thing is... Swain's strong in the early-mid game, and not because of the snare... His base damages (particularly on his E) are just really high.

His late game is awful though, because the scaling on his ult is garbage, he has no mobility whatsoever with a slow base movement speed and no solid options for % movement from items (due to his short range), the damage from 2 of his abilities is easily avoided, and other characters can kill him near instantly from outside of his range, even when he is building relatively tanky (RoA, Rylai's, Zhonya's, Banshees).

They should really be re-scaling his damage to be higher late game and lower early game, or giving him more significant innate defense for the late game/nerfing items in general so base stats mean more and damage/defense don't get absurd with a full build.

DehitayNov 23, 20153 votes

{quoted}

His late game is awful though

LMFAO

dEAdbUsNov 24, 20151 votes

In late game adcs will have QSS, so they can remove all his dots and kill him easy.

asamuNov 25, 20151 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Swain

Look at his win rate by game length. Post 30-35 minutes, it drops to ~45% when he is top lane, after being at 54% for relatively short games. Considering his exceptionally high win rate for short games, that points to his late game actually being quite weak, since you can expect him to have a reasonable lead coming out of the mid-game. Considering his overall win rate is still just over 50% overall, that's pretty significant.

ShmoovusNov 24, 20152 votes

The ravens are persistently pecking the upvote button. I have no idea why that happens when I leave my computer with Swain.

ModKnightsKemplarNov 24, 20151 votes

You really have no idea what you're saying... lol. Swain used to be so weak early. Agreed, on this patch, he's quite a bit stronger, but it hasn't been that way historically.

asamuNov 25, 20151 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Swain/Top

The new masteries buffed him, but he's never been weak in lane. There were certain characters that could punish him, but most struggled with that because of his sustain.

I didn't say swain was weak overall, just that his late game was mediocre, if not outright bad, while his early-mid game was clearly too strong, and the statistics support that claim.

ModKnightsKemplarNov 25, 20151 votes

Ah... you are looking at top swain. Mid swain has a much different profile.

asamuNov 26, 20151 votes

They both follow the same general trend. It's just more blatant for top swain. The first thing I posted was from experience (I played a lot of swain for a while). Against more mobile teams, Swain is trash once you hit the later parts of the game because he's so easy to avoid and objectives can be taken quickly. In addition, he's easily kited by champions with more range or nuked down in a fight.

The Bearded BardNov 24, 20153 votes

Here we see boards pretending to know about balance again.

ModKnightsKemplarNov 24, 20151 votes

Yeah, Swain needed the hit to something... I am def frustrated that it's this, but he is a bit strong, I feel.

Lady HammerlockNov 24, 20152 votes

Simple answer deathfiretouch was added swain is a mage who can still build a large variety of tank items(like more so then mid laners should be able to) such as item 3065 item 3157 item 3143 item 3026 item 3001 item 3151 item 3116 item 3027 item 3742 which makes him frustrating to kill especially with his heal with a few runes+masteries swain at lvl 8+deathfiretouch with only (that hp and mana ingredient on ROA) stone of ages something like that can deal about 75% of your hp with his E+W+Q with little to no effort he isn't balanced due to lack of counterplay apart from from building tank 3 dot spells well he is balanced he does have counterplay but not all that much if fed becomes EXTREMELY frustrating to kill his 1 weak ness is that his mana bar drops to the ground after 6 seconds in a fight

KONO RUBICK DANov 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Simple answer deathfiretouch was added swain is a mage who can still build a large variety of tank items(like more so then mid laners should be able to) such as which makes him frustrating to kill especially with his heal with a few runes+masteries swain at lvl 8+deathfiretouch with only (that hp and mana ingredient on ROA) stone of ages something like that can deal about 75% of your hp with his E+W+Q with little to no effort he isn't balanced due to lack of counterplay apart from from building tank 3 dot spells well he is balanced he does have counterplay but not all that much if fed becomes EXTREMELY frustrating to kill his 1 weak ness is that his mana bar drops to the ground after 6 seconds in a fight

it's nerfed on PBE, no reason to nerf his SNARE along with it

dEAdbUsNov 24, 20152 votes

Simple answer: buy qss, remove his dots, kill him.

NekusenNov 24, 20152 votes

If only these items existed....

item 3033 item 3165

Meep ManNov 23, 20151 votes

Now I might actually level my W to Rank 2 before Level 14.

ModKnightsKemplarNov 24, 20151 votes

Man I used to level e>q>w. Can't get away with THAT anymore.

thumbnail9Nov 24, 20151 votes

Soon he'll have to fight brand for the right to see who goes oom faster.

PassionlipNov 24, 20151 votes

To be honest, it's still nothing i can't wrap my head around, he can still do the 2 seconds at 5 levels of W. ... the 1 second less which we can't get back again of Rammus...

Dar RaksadaNov 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

To be honest, it's still nothing i can't wrap my head around, he can still do the 2 seconds at 5 levels of W. ... the 1 second less which we can't get back again of Rammus...

Fiddlesticks Feels your pain.

MLDzXnRRRNov 24, 20151 votes

Swain is a freelo... (But only vs melee heroes.)

KONO RUBICK DANov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Swain is a freelo... (But only vs melee heroes.)

which means he isn't freelo

ModKnightsKemplarNov 24, 20151 votes

I would love to see data on his win rate in games where EC got built by enemies.

KONO RUBICK DANov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I would love to see data on his win rate in games where EC got built by enemies.

never lost against swain when i built EC.

DarkwindNov 24, 20151 votes

...I didn't actually believe you until I looked at his patch history. That's pretty incredible really, EVERYTHING gets nerfed, usually sooner rather than later...