I'm starting to hate the Juggernauts.

Ralanr·Dec 23, 2015·26 votes·2,481 views

They give primary tank champions a bad name since no one seems to understand there is a difference between juggernaut and tank.

isn't a true tank people. He just has problems dying.

111 Comments

The DeckownerDec 24, 201511 votes

i usually consider mundo a tanky fighter instead of a tank.

Blue Moon WolfDec 24, 20154 votes

I learned from the League of Legends Wiki that is what a Juggernaut is, a tanky sub-class of fighter. You have the Light Fighters like Fiora and XinZhao , Bruisers/ Divers like Tryndamere and MonkeyKing and Juggernauts like Garen and Mordekaiser . Light fighters are squishier Fighters, Juggernauts are tanky and Bruisers are the middle ground.

The DeckownerDec 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gB7tLBo5,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-12-24T06:00:52.711+0000)

I learned from the League of Legends Wiki that is what a Juggernaut is, a tanky sub-class of fighter. You have the Light Fighters like and , Bruisers/ Divers like and and Juggernauts like and . Light fighters are squishier Fighters, Juggernauts are tanky and Bruisers are the middle ground.

but the thing with mundo is he deals xin zhao kind of dmg but has garen kind of tankyness, its hard to put him on a category.

Blue Moon WolfDec 24, 20155 votes

That's why I would say he's a juggernaut, Cause he can dish out as much damage as he receives. If he could take a lot of damage and had multiple CC abilities that don't do much damage wise, then he would lean more towards a tank.

Teridax68Dec 24, 20151 votes

Damage isn't really the discerning factor between any of those sub-classes, as every fighter is designed to do a lot of DPS. Generally, you'd want to look for what types of defenses and mobility they have: if your champion can enter fights fairly easily and has gapclosers that allow them to reach the back line, then you've likely got a bruiser or light fighter, and if they have no gapclosers at all, or have trouble engaging at will, then you've likely got a Juggernaut. If your champion relies more on straight-up tanking enemy abilities and shrugging them off, you've likely got a Juggernaut or a bruiser, and if they can avoid or otherwise ignore incoming fire then you most likely have a light fighter. Mundo's a bit weird, since he has really good poke and high-ish in-combat mobility, which Juggernauts usually lack, but he likely still counts, since his end goal is to kill people and not disrupt them or whatever. He could probably turn into a tank if he were encouraged to take damage for his team, instead of just having his regen letting him go where he pleases (though that's cool too), but right now he's a slow, tough guy who will mow you down if you get too close, so pretty much a Juggernaut.

The DeckownerDec 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Damage isn't really the discerning factor between any of those sub-classes, as every fighter is designed to do a lot of DPS. Generally, you'd want to look for what types of defenses and mobility they have: if your champion can enter fights fairly easily and has gapclosers that allow them to reach the back line, then you've likely got a bruiser or light fighter, and if they have no gapclosers at all, or have trouble engaging at will, then you've likely got a Juggernaut. If your champion relies more on straight-up tanking enemy abilities and shrugging them off, you've likely got a Juggernaut or a bruiser, and if they can avoid or otherwise ignore incoming fire then you most likely have a light fighter. Mundo's a bit weird, since he has really good poke and high-ish in-combat mobility, which Juggernauts usually lack, but he likely still counts, since his end goal is to kill people and not disrupt them or whatever. He could probably turn into a tank if he were encouraged to take damage for his team, instead of just having his regen letting him go where he pleases (though that's cool too), but right now he's a slow, tough guy who will mow you down if you get too close, so pretty much a Juggernaut.

u know what is the difference between mundo and juggernut in my opinion? mundo hit u with a cleaver and he decide to chase u then uvare dead, juggernut cant do that.

Teridax68Dec 24, 20151 votes

But then you also have Skarner, who can slow you down with Fracture and then chase you until you die, or Illaoi, whose E forces you to go through a lot of pain in some way or another if you get hit. Even Mordekaiser can keep you constantly slowed with his ult and E once he gets a Rylai's. Mundo can definitely lay down more consistent ranged damage and CC, but I'd say that's part of what makes him unique among Juggernauts (no Juggernaut is a "perfect" Juggernaut in any case, really).

Whut Thuh Dec 24, 20151 votes

tell that to darius and garen who are the definitions of juggernauts

Teridax68Dec 24, 20152 votes

The definition of a juggernaut is that of a tanky fighter who's low on CC and mobility, but who packs a ton of damage and some level of independent power (i.e. stuff that works no matter how far ahead or behind the champion is). Garen's on the higher end of mobility for juggernauts due to his movement speed boost, and Darius has some pretty nice CC, even if it's not as massive as Skarner's. Both are pretty nice Juggernauts now, it's just that they don't fit the overarching definition perfectly, nor should they. Technically, Mordekaiser would be the only example of a "perfect" Juggernaut, since he has zero innate CC and some of the worst mobility in the game, though that's also one of the reasons why he's so hard to balance.

Whut Thuh Dec 24, 20151 votes

ya except mundo has no gap close and no damage late game ya sure hes unkillable but he doesnt do damage if you really want to talk about bruiser level damage and tankyness of a true tank its garen.. strong laning phase meh roams strong one v one strong teamfights morde simply gets rekt unless hes in minions with a friend and now hes back to the awful and never played state so much so that you cant even play him without being called a troll. tryndamere and wukong are exactly what you said they are

The DeckownerDec 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

ya except mundo has no gap close and no damage late game ya sure hes unkillable but he doesnt do damage if you really want to talk about bruiser level damage and tankyness of a true tank its garen.. strong laning phase meh roams strong one v one strong teamfights morde simply gets rekt unless hes in minions with a friend and now hes back to the awful and never played state so much so that you cant even play him without being called a troll. tryndamere and wukong are exactly what you said they are

mundo's q and e even w deals decent dmg late game, especially q i believe deals 25% of target's max hp in max rank.

Whut Thuh Dec 26, 20151 votes

the thing with garen is that he has mundo level tankyness with fiora damage (-fiora mobility)

Meep ManDec 24, 20153 votes

I think Tryndamere would count as a Light Fighter also, and I think Bruiser is a better word for that middle tier since Light Fighters can also easily dive. Divers can be from Bruiser or Light Fighter.

Anyways, Dr. Mundo for all intents and purposes is, in fact, a Juggernaut. He fits every bit for a Juggernaut EXCEPT for having limited range, but Mordekaiser doesn't exactly have that either. Juggernauts are immobile however, like Dr. Mundo, are tanky, like Mundo, and can deal some insane damage if they get close enough, like Dr. Mundo. Dr. Mundo could be categorized as a Juggernaut.

Whut Thuh Dec 24, 20152 votes

tryndamere is an assasin he is purely damage and once he has items and ultimate he picks some one he wants to die and kills them

RalanrDec 24, 20151 votes

He's a fighter first, but he's built like an assassin most of the time because of how his kit works. Funnily enough, the wiki says Yasuo is primary fighter and secondary assassin even though he is built as an assassin all the time.

Whut Thuh Dec 24, 20151 votes

ya i dont think that ive ever seen him built fighter

RalanrDec 24, 20152 votes

Cause his ult is all the defense he needs.

I honestly think he needs a rework.

WarchfGingerDec 24, 20152 votes

Oh, Really? The more you know

Whut Thuh Dec 26, 20151 votes

the thing about juggernauts is the damage they do is as high or better than some light fighters its jsut that their mobility is probably the worst in the game like darius and morde and skarner is the exception becuase he can be tanky or damagey or both and he can win by carrying or win by proxy by just draging the enemy carry into your team to essentially delete them lol

chipndip1Dec 24, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gB7tLBo5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-24T01:53:43.686+0000)

i usually consider mundo a tanky fighter instead of a tank.

That's what juggernauts are: tanky as fuck fighters.

Whut Thuh Dec 26, 20151 votes

this is probably the best description anyone could give him considering your the only one that has an oppinon that people like lol

Posui GartDec 23, 20154 votes

So when fed ADC can't kill enemy Nautilus/Rammus/Udyr/Reksai 1x1-there is no problem, but if Mundo or Darius do that-its "omg that OP juggernauts". Thats not fine. And Mundo is actually a tank, he just has tons of AA damage and permaslow. Same with Tahm.

RalanrDec 23, 201513 votes

Naut and Rammus are the only primary tanks in your list. And really should a AD attack speed champion be able to 1v1 a champion they is literally designed to hurt you for attacking them (looking at you Rammus)?

Tahm has heavy CC with his devour ability, but I'm not going to try and defend anything beyond him being a tank.

Mundo requires hitting people with cleavers to keep the permaslow going, plus he can stop someone like an ulting Master Yi since he has no hard CC.

Whut Thuh Dec 23, 20153 votes

if mundo isnt a true tank then what is... mundo has all the qualities of a good true tank the number one being that he doesnt scale with anytning on q or e so building ap or ad is just flat out dumb so the only thing that makes sense is building health and armor plus his ultiamte is just about the best tank abilitie in the game

RalanrDec 23, 201524 votes

He has little to no utility.

If you want a good example of a tank, look at Nautilus, Sion, Rammus, hell even Singed is a better example of a tank than Mundo.

YorukinDec 24, 201510 votes

Mundo has plenty of utility! He has:

A slow,

Blue Moon WolfDec 24, 20156 votes

sometimes it feels like that's all he needs T.T

UB3R 1337 H4XDec 24, 20152 votes

Well he also shares a hidden passive with Teemo which causes him to be used as a stress-relief ball for the enemy team.

Whut Thuh Dec 24, 20151 votes

mundo doesnt have that much damage ya early game he can mess you up with e and q but late game he just throws cleavers and cant finish anybody off. he cant carry like any of the other juggernauts and how is singed a better tank than mundo? all singed does is proxy farm in your base and run away if you see him, unlike mundo is singed wants to do jack squate he has to have ap but not mundo he just builds full tank and never dies.

RalanrDec 24, 20152 votes

Singed has two forms of CC, a flip and a slow. Ergo he can mess up the positions of the enemy team rather well.

Ergo he does certain jobs of a tank better than DrMundo . This doesn't mean Singed is a great example of a tank (I think he is secondary tank), but he is another champion with the category that can fufill the role and benefits from tanky items. He's just more reliable for certain tank jobs than Mundo.

elon wątrobaDec 24, 20151 votes

Both of them are disruptors like a nautilius but instead of cc they got high damage.

Whut Thuh Dec 25, 20152 votes

it sounds like your making the role of "tank" include every champion with cc and 1 health item while your at it might as well include lissandra and ryze

RalanrDec 25, 20151 votes

Except tanks are frontline with close ranged CC.

Whut Thuh Dec 26, 20151 votes

tanks dont neccesarly have to have cc they usually do and when tanks have cc they are generally played as a rare jungle pick or support but mundo is a tank that doesnt have enough cc to be a support but can stiill be the frontline stress ball that a good tank is

Symphony RegaIiaDec 25, 20151 votes

No. It sounds like you have no idea what a tank is.

Fighter != tank. This is basics.

Whut Thuh Dec 26, 20151 votes

so your saying that a fighter like irelia or olaf is a tank?

RalanrDec 26, 20151 votes

No, they are primary fighter. Like Mundo.

GigglesODec 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

it sounds like your making the role of "tank" include every champion with cc and 1 health item while your at it might as well include lissandra and ryze

Ryze is pretty much is a tank, and has been since his last rework...

SirHeavyScrotumDec 24, 20152 votes

Yeah tanks are generally used for their CC and do less damage than juggernauts, like Sejuani, Sion, Malphite, Amumu. Juggernauts are champions that are durable but don't have very much utility (mobility & cc), they just have durablity and a shit ton of damage. Examples being Tahm, Mundo, Darius, Illaoi, etc

Whut Thuh Dec 24, 20151 votes

mundo doesnt do damage late game. his best damage is chunking someone for a decent amount if he lands a q and then his damage is crap

Arsenic SulfurDec 24, 20151 votes

However that damage is sustained because Q has a really low cooldown(You're Mundo, if you don't have 40% CDR by lvl 16 you suck) and his E is pretty nice. Especially if you have a Frozen Gauntlet to amp the damage.

Whut Thuh Dec 26, 20151 votes

true but theoretically (and i say this becuase some people are bad at dodging myself included) a q should never land in a lane or even in the jungle becuase it would get blocked half the time and i know some people are REALLY good at landing cleavers and thats what makes solo lane mundo so good but overall his other abilities just dont really say that much about him being a good fighter. i know that he can have some hilarious damage with frozen gauntlet and dmp but i just think he's a better tank than a fighter

Whut Thuh Dec 26, 20151 votes

malphites cc other than ult is like zero so saying that he has cc is like saying shyvanna has good cc becuase of her ultimate

GigglesODec 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

if mundo isnt a true tank then what is... mundo has all the qualities of a good true tank the number one being that he doesnt scale with anytning on q or e so building ap or ad is just flat out dumb so the only thing that makes sense is building health and armor plus his ultiamte is just about the best tank abilitie in the game

Don't let the haters get you down, it has been known since season 1 the true tanks were Mundo, Rammus, Singed, Galio, and Chogath... That was until the nerf bat attacked, Chogath and Galio became mages, singed became feed to win, and Mundo and Rammus fell out of god tier tanks, and into the realm of bruiser.

Does damage, dies in less than 3-4 seconds, it isn't a tank.

Whut Thuh Dec 25, 20151 votes

are you trying to tell me that thats all mundo does? have you ever seen a mundo thats actually builds standard mundo which is when he is simply unkillable

Symphony RegaIiaDec 25, 20151 votes

Mundo is not a tank. Repeat it very slowy: Mundo is not a tank.

Mundo is a fighter like Irelia. There seems to be a correlation with how loudly people talk and how little they understand.

Whut Thuh Dec 26, 20151 votes

mundo is not like irelia at all .... mundo has some of the best poke in game arilia has no poke (not counting ult) mundo has no hard cc irelia does.. you rarely build damage items on mundo, you do on irelia... mundo has no gapcloser, irelia does... irelia has very high damage through out the game though her damage falls off slightly late game while mundo is pretty lackluster in the melee damage department once people can deal with the e damage which is why he can be an early lane bully but other than that his damage is pretty lackluster if he doesnt land every q.. irelia is a classic example of what a fighter/diver does (primarily fighter but can be either) mundo is a perfect example of what a tank does with is , get this.... take damage and shrug it off