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Assassins and Their Identity

Chromatic Eagle··3 votes·1,007 views

Riot has been making some changes to the assassin role, where in the process, we're learning about their design philosophy. So looking at the current assassins, what are their core play styles supposed to be and what could be done to maintain it?

Zed : If he's a healthy assassin, explain how? His play style revolves around his shadow, then lower his damage or raise the cost of his other skills. The shadows are both his greatest strength and weakness. If he's supposed to maintain his power as an assassin, then add more weaknesses to his shadow. Also apparently he's an Assassin/fighter? Have we ever had a pure assassin before?

Evelynn : I don't know what she was like when she was good, but her kit doesn't make sense to me as an assassin. A spammable Q, and an AA boost?

Ahri : I get how as a mobile mage, she must lose out on some range and safety, but what does she give up compared to other assassins again? I also read an interesting suggestion on moving the movement speed buff from her Q to her W. W is just sort of, there.

Akali : I honestly don't know much about her to make a comment here. What's her play style supposed to be?

Fizz : Similar to Zed, he relies a lot on his Ult now to do his damage. He's incredibly frustrating to play against, which is supposed to be his style. In exchange for mobility, his burst is limited to his ult.

20 Comments

SmokingPuffin4 votes

Zed : If he's a healthy assassin, explain how? His play style revolves around his shadow, then lower his damage or raise the cost of his other skills. The shadows are both his greatest strength and weakness. If he's supposed to maintain his power as an assassin, then add more weaknesses to his shadow. Also apparently he's an Assassin/fighter? Have we ever had a pure assassin before?

The healthy parts of Zed:

  • Core laning patterns are rich in counterplay. Q can be juked. If he wants maximum damage or waveclear, he burns W, which gives a window to counterattack.
  • His assassination attempt is slow enough to develop that players can plan for what to do when he eventually arrives at the target. Compare to Talon's assassination attempt, which is an example of a play pattern that develops too quickly.
  • Zed's energy gating mechanics are generally pretty fair, with Zed running out of energy quickly if he misses his stuff.

Zed isn't perfect, or even particularly healthy relative to most champions. He's the healthiest assassin, but assassins mostly have unhealthy kit designs. In particular, Zed R is just table flippingly safe and Zed's manaless harass pattern is considerably less defensible than say Kennen or Shen's.

Evelynn : I don't know what she was like when she was good, but her kit doesn't make sense to me as an assassin. A spammable Q, and an AA boost?

GC was talking some about this. Evelynn is a champion that was labeled "assassin" not because of play pattern, but because of theme. She plays more like a light fighter than anything else.

Ahri : I get how as a mobile mage, she must lose out on some range and safety, but what does she give up compared to other assassins again? I also read an interesting suggestion on moving the movement speed buff from her Q to her W. W is just sort of, there.

Ahri is just plain overtuned on live.

The main thing Ahri gives up compared to assassins is single target damage potential.

Akali : I honestly don't know much about her to make a comment here. What's her play style supposed to be?

Akali is more of a light fighter than an assassin. Her core play pattern is quite unhealthy. I can only wish Riot good luck getting themselves out of this mess.

Fizz : Similar to Zed, he relies a lot on his Ult now to do his damage. He's incredibly frustrating to play against, which is supposed to be his style. In exchange for mobility, his burst is limited to his ult.

Fizz currently isn't infuriating, which is a sign that he's undertuned. He's supposed to be infuriating.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

That Zed response is probably one of the most accurate and fair criticisms I've seen so far. I wouldn't know much about Fizz to be honest, since I make sure he's banned whenever I'm captain. I rarely play mid, but I hate feast or famine champs. Akali and Eve were responses I'm looking for. Their play styles don't fit Assassins very well.

McAllister1 votes

Could you tell me more about Akali? I don't see her as a light fighter or unhealthy, so I'm interested in your perspective.

SmokingPuffin2 votes

Akali is unhealthy. Two main problems:

  1. Spell vamp is generally a pretty sucky mechanic, but burst spell vamp is a serious game health problem. Bursty spell vamp, and her reliance on it, results in Akali being immortal or dead depending on if she's ahead or behind.
  2. Gap closer requires zero setup work. Almost all of Akali's power is baked into that thing, which means there's near zero tuning available on the kit.

Honestly, even if the R had setup work, Akali would still have the Diana problem. It's just going to be a very hard kit to get into the game in a way that feels fair and balanced.

On the light fighter side of things, Akali isn't so good at the "burst a guy and escape" thing that is the core assassin play pattern. In practice, Akali is actually quite a sustained damage dealer. She has high health sustain and has no problem continuing a fight over some duration.

McAllister1 votes

Is spell vamp suckier than lifesteal? If so, why? I recognize that "full health or dead" is rough, but is it healing on minions that's bad, or on champions? Part of why I ask is that I think Riot knows that spell vamp is an issue, and making sure it doesn't get too powerful is one of the reasons my man Morde isn't so hot these days.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Lifesteal isn't great as a mechanic, but spell vamp is significantly suckier than lifesteal. The core problem is that autoattacks are all really similar, while abilities are all really different. A secondary issue is that you can press 4 buttons in the time it takes to autoattack once, leading to a burst healing problem.

The problem specific to Akali is that her spell vamp on champions makes her way more durable than an assassin ought to be when she's ahead. Meanwhile, when she's behind, it doesn't do anything. This makes Akali too feast or famine for comfort.

McAllister2 votes

The problems with Zed are that he's fine without his shadow, and that his waveclear and towerkill are too strong. Nerf his AS growth and waveclear, and change his skills so that hitting with both blades/slashes is more rewarding but hitting with only one is weaker.

Eve's identity is "fix me please" just like Yorick, Heimer and Urgot.

Ahri isn't an assassin any more, she's a very mobile mage with either slow burst or good sustained damage depending on how you look at it.

Akali's pretty straightforward. Mark target, dash to target, detonate mark, target Flashes, dash to target again, repeat until dead. Deploy smoke to approach, escape and/or juke. A very healthy assassin these days IMO.

What's the difference between an assassin and a burst mage? However you define it, Fizz is kinda both. His identity is that it's hard to pin him down, but if you do, he goes pop: conversely, he doesn't 100-0 in lightspeed like most assassins, but his ult hurts like hell and he's still pretty painful without it.

I wonder why you omitted assassins like Kha'zix, Rengar and Talon. They all have very similar identities: leap onto target from stealth, initiate facemelting, escaping would be nice but I did my job. Kha has an easier time escaping, Talon has an easier time melting, Rengar actually has reasonable damage outside his combo.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

I got lazy and to be honest I don't know much about the others. I was hoping other people would chime in about what makes those champions unique.

McAllister2 votes

That's fair. I think LeBlanc, Akali, Fizz, Talon and Rengar are probably in pretty good places right now as assassins, but I don't main any of them, so my perspective isn't that useful.

I forgot to mention, what does Ahri give up? Deletion. Of the assassins you listed (Eve might be something, but she's not an assassin), she's the one who has the most trouble deleting people.

I also forgot to mention Kassadin. He, too, is no longer a deleter. If he's trying for a 100-0 kill, he's probably got to use his ult twice, which means it's just not terribly fast. His identity is someone who lurks around the edges of teamfights and jumps on people who are low or isolated. His weakness is that he can't dive and destroy like Rengar/Talon/Khazix, but his strengths are that he's very good at getting away and that his cooldowns are all pretty reasonable, so he can apply damage surgically and get out. He's one of the worst assassins to have on your team if you're losing, because he typically doesn't turn the tide: he seals the deal.

Final additional mention, Diana. She's got 0 methods of escaping after a successful kill, but her AoE is respectable and her offensive mobility is up there with Kass and Akali, with better burst than either unless I'm totally wrong. She's actually a lot like Akali, only with a shield and better CC instead of stealth and sustain. One of the best assassins to play out of the jungle... in fact, the only one who comes to mind.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

So mages delete from range while assassins delete from melee?

I know people complain about LeBlanc's damage or potential safety with Distortion.

Akali is being discussed because of her nerfs. I know some people want a rework for her, so that's why I'm curious about her identity.

Talon is weird because some people hate that his silence is gone, while others can accept it if his E can do something else. Didn't a Riot respond in a thread about him?

I honestly don't know about Rengar but I think he's good enough. He's the guy who waits in bushes. Not sure the difference between him and Kha'Zix, along with other stealth-types.

Diana is in one of those hybrid spots that Riot has talked about. Too borderline between Fighter and Assassin, and they're not sure where to lean her towards. I hope Assassin. Isn't Yi an assassin?

For some reason I thought Elise was an assassin. Guess I got her confused with Eve.

McAllister1 votes

Classic mages (meaning burst mages) delete from a distance, but their delete is based on landing an opener: think Veigar as the pinnacle of this. He's no assassin, but if you get stunned in the circle, he can end your life unless you built tank.

LeBlanc seems to have a very high skill cap, but I think she's essentially fair. Two of her abilities are at least somewhat hard to land, and keeping track of everything must be a pain.

Akali's nerfs were probably for the best. She still does what she wants to do, in my opinion.

Some people hate anything, man. I think maybe Riot weighed in, but I wasn't paying attention. He does his job, and if he lacks a little luster, well, he's got good waveclear and he's built with teamwork in mind.

Rengar and Kha'Zix were released back to back, I'm pretty sure there's an intentional "Alien Vs. Predator" vibe going on. The similarities are not an accident. Their stealth is fairly limited, although it's totally sufficient for what they want to do with it. Serious stealth champs are Shaco or Twitch, who can appear from anywhere and have it on a pretty short cooldown. Fun fact: I'm pretty confident Riot will never, ever make another champion with non-ult stealth as long-lasting as Twitch's or as mobile as Shaco's.

Diana could be a fighter, but she's better as an assassin. Nashor's and tanky AP aren't bad on her, she's just not better than other fighters at fighting. I consider melee ADCs different from assassins. Sure, mADCs will blow you up almost as fast, but it's based on right-clicking instead of abilities, so they're operating on different constraints. mADCs are more likely to get pentas, but they're also more likely to die worthlessly before they do anything.

I imagine Elise was released to be a mage in human form and an assassin in spider form, but somehow she turned into something that blends bruiser, mage and assassin into an unrecognizable brown goop. Her identity is on life support.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Yeah Elise was actually one of the main reasons why I started this thread. Thought the spider form was an assassin and wondered why she would have an AS boost. Thought the Q and E made sense.

What's Akali's identity supposed to be? I compare her to Katarina since they can both snowball and like to roam, but Katarina to me is the pentakilling/acing champion. Once she goes in, she either cleans up or dies.

I wanted to include melee ADCs too since they have the assassin tag somewhere. What are Fiora, Yasuo, and Tryndamere supposed to do?

McAllister1 votes

I think Smoking Puffin generally has a good perspective and I agree with a lot of what he says, but not about Akali's being an unhealthy light fighter. I think "light fighter" means "not quite mADC, but can be very close," and autoattacks are what makes that true. Akali bursts damage with abilities from melee range. I also disagree with her being unhealthy, but I'll direct that question to them. Akali and Kat both have resets, but Kat resets harder: Akali's pattern is kill-move-kill with lurking in the smoke cloud as needed, and Kat's pattern is wait-wait-explode, followed by "run down the survivors" or "GTFO and do it again" depending on how it went. Kat's teammates are generally thinking "will she jump in already? she's so late" if she's doing a good job.

Tryndamere and Yi are the pinnacle mADCa, the alpha and omega predators, monsters unrivaled. Tryn can build 6 damage items and still do his job. Most mADCs die if they get CC'd and are deadly if they don't, which is why Yi and Olaf are so dangerous: they can ignore CC. I don't play Fiora, but Yasuo isn't as balls-to-the-wall as the other Tryn/Yi. He has... wait for it... hard CC. His scaling is great, but not as insane as Tryn/Yi; he's very mobile. His identity is that he jumps in with his ult, and either survives the fight with insane sword-dash dodges every second and impressive damage or dies.

I mentioned Olaf, but nobody builds him straight damage because, as sweet as his ult is, he would just die anyway. Tryn doesn't have that problem for 6 seconds at a time.

mADCs are also the scariest people to see Teleport on, bar none. Is there a ward near one of your towers/inhibs? If so, it could explode at any time. You have been warned.

Risk of Fate2 votes

EMG, ZED OP RITO NERF PLZ. Okay, sorry about that, but I hate the guy just as much as anyone else, but I somewhat agree that he's healthy for being an assassin which is where Talon needs to be. They're supposed to be quick, clean cut, get out, not "I'm gonna do major damage on so and so and hopefully survive as my blades give away where I'm at after I run." It'd probably be nicer for him if he could control where the blades went rather than always returning, maybe giving him a small refund on CD or mana/energy (haven't played against or with one in a long while, not sure what his power is) if he catches them sort of like Gnar with his boomerang. A lot of people I see when up against Zed make a problem of getting close to him which is bad and range is a better thing, since most champions are squishy, you'd be better off with some sort of tank against him like Sion or Braum. These are just my thoughts, take them with a grain of salt.

I've played a lot of Evelynn and she's pretty much Ult, kill, clean up with Q, although I might be playing her wrong. With her ult, she gets a nice shield that helps to guarantee a kill and her passive allows her to escape if she does the job or messes up. This is why you don't send assassins to kill the entire team, they are meant as 1v1 or possibly 1v2 in most situations, they're extremely squishy, just a little bit of CC and it's over.

Ahri could be an assassin similar to Zed, I believe that the developer wanted to make it so landing skillshots with her is essential to her playstyle. If you are good enough with her, a charm > foxfire > orb combo should be able to do massive amounts of damage, her ult should not be really used for pure offensive, it's to either escape, go in and get out, or be constantly changing positions so that the enemy isn't able to land their stuff on you, unless you're playing against a cheap champ where you point, click 100% hit such as Taric's Dazzle or Annie's Fireball.

Akali is, I would think, healthy as well. I've played with and against many of them and her job is kill, move, kill, move, hopefully taking out the squishies and getting out before the tanks arrive.

Fizz isn't an assassin, he's the devil incarnate who comes, kills and continues on as if he's on a Sunday stroll. With an ability that negates targeting, does AoE damage, tosses a fish that will 9/10 kill you, even if you're a tank. He's probably the only champion, aside from Vladimir, who aren't OP just because they're strong, but rather because they are extremely mobile, have low cooldowns, and pretty much cause a ton of damage in teamfights and 1v1s are like a game for them. Quite literally, he's a slippery fish which is why it's important to land your stuns, snares, and slows on him as fast as you can before he's able to pull off his bounce. While I think some champs might be too strong, he's one I'd personally say hit him as hard as you can with that nerf hammer, he can one shot you with a single R from full health.

Assassins: uber strong in 1v1, I take pleasure when I manage to snare them and hope my team smashes down on them.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Honestly I think I know why Zed is seen as healthy and I sort of agree. I just know that others are confused as to how. His strength and weakness revolves around his shadow, but I think people are only noticing his strengths. That's why he should either lose some damage for his shadow, or have more of a weakness attached to it. That's just my theory, nothing concrete.

I agree with your view on assassins, but then what about people like Katarina, Akali, and maybe Fizz before the change?

I mentioned Ahri because her secondary role is assassin, and recently changed from that play style back to her original mobile mage concept. I was just confused on the whole Mage vs. Assassin vs. Mage Assassin vs. Assassin Mage.

Yeah Fizz is frustrating, which is why I mentioned that that is actually intentional from Riot. I wish they made him more vulnerable, but moving his damage to his ult is a good start or compromise.

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

riot changed the definition of assasin role before assasin was a guy made to kill the enemy carry fast and reliable

now assasin is a guy who can capitalize on specific windows of opportunity to strike the key targets

see the diference ? before it was fine for assasin to point and click remove a carry without giving him anything he can do about it now assasin has to wait to a moment where adc is open for him and then he needs to actualy fight him

ofc our current assasins dont realy portray this good, but thats what riot wants to make them and thats much better than old concept

if you ask why zed is healthy he isnt but he is the healthiest assasin we have, all thanks to his assasination pattern not fawouring blowing enemy adc up in 0.0001 seconds, forcing him to make himself wulnerable and peelable

when we look at all of out assasins zed is the one who you can do the most to stop him besides getting zhonya, lb will just nuke you, akali will cling and nuke you, fizz will delete you (not post his nerfs thou), while zed has to be there those 3 seconds and you can use your cc or just blow him up to stop him

ForgiveColour1 votes

I dont think its assassin thats holding you back in elo hell from challenjour m8. I tihnk you should play those "op" to get out of elo hell and climb challenjour first

Chromatic Eagle3 votes

I've never hid my rank, nor do I blame assassins for it.

Edit: Wow I've played a lot of Shyvana. Also I'm terrible at top laning. I don't know how to last hit there compared to mid and bot.

CheckMyDoubles1 votes

Did you even read his post? Based on your grammar and spelling, I'd be surprised if you could...

Other than a false sense of superiority, what sense does it make to screenshot and post his current ranking?

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

I know Fighters and Assassins are going through a bit of a rework, but what about the hybrids of these roles? Xin Zhao, Vi, Irelia. What are their identities, and should they lean more to one or the other, or just need more counterplay and niches?

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