Before renerfing Aatrox into the ground, consider reverting some of the hotfix's changes

PaffWasTaken·May 24, 2019·17 votes·10,372 views

It is pretty apparent right now that he is overpowered, but let's not repeat what happened for the third time in his lifespan now: Aatrox becoming good then wave of nerfs putting him in the duster for months straight.

The hotfix came along at a point where most people didn't know how to play the new Aatrox and his core items that he should build given his new kit. It brought changes that were needed, yes, like the armor and passive damage boost. but what was unneeded and what boosted his winrate way too much is the Q damage buff. He simply didn't need that damage buff, even less so since his mini-rework already buffed his Q damage by quite a bit. So, before nerfing Aatrox for things he didn't do, please consider just reverting the Q damage buff hotfix.

43 Comments

RagnaveilMay 24, 201912 votes

If anything, make the healing amp only work with his healing. I think a big issue is trying to kill him in his ult while a soraka or nami pumps heals into him for 500+ due to the amp.

SuicidePlankMay 24, 20197 votes

{quoted}

If anything, make the healing amp only work with his healing. I think a big issue is trying to kill him in his ult while a soraka or nami pumps heals into him for 500+ due to the amp.

Exactly, a lot of people just look at these games IT'S CRAZY LOLOLOLOL. But ignore the fact that him himself healing is his design as a drain tank (atleast..he was that..). The healing amp from allies was completly unecessary imo.

RagnaveilMay 24, 20193 votes

Right. He needed the damage buff (because in case people forgot, he lost AD on his R and the flat gain of E when used), and could use a bit more late on his passive if removing the heal amp from allies does a dent.

BoilTheOilMay 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Right. He needed the damage buff (because in case people forgot, he lost AD on his R and the flat gain of E when used), and could use a bit more late on his passive if removing the heal amp from allies does a dent.

still has ad on R

RagnaveilMay 24, 20192 votes

But at a lower amount it use to be. I said he lost AD on his R, which means not all of it.

BoilTheOilMay 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

But at a lower amount it use to be. I said he lost AD on his R, which means not all of it.

No, it's the same amount

RagnaveilMay 25, 20191 votes

Excuse me? 25% all ranks isn't the same as 20 / 25 / 30% total AD buddy.

BoilTheOilMay 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Excuse me? 25% all ranks isn't the same as 20 / 25 / 30% total AD buddy.

he's had 20 / 25 / 30% since before his mini rework

RagnaveilMay 25, 20191 votes

Thats what I meant. Since the rework, he now only gets 25% vs the scaling, which means he lost damage with E's ad removal and the 5% trimmed from the ult. Therefore, he needed the damage buffs.

Anime FizzMay 24, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Exactly, a lot of people just look at these games IT'S CRAZY LOLOLOLOL. But ignore the fact that him himself healing is his design as a drain tank (atleast..he was that..). The healing amp from allies was completly unecessary imo.

"Drain tank" is a horrible outdated design choice, its the reason old aatrox got reworked for.

To think riot would return to that mistake, well guess theres literally no point in the rework anymore, might aswell revert.

PørnStårMay 24, 20193 votes

aatrox did not get reverted because he was a drain tank LMAO, riot reverted him simply because hit kit was just terrible and he was left as nothing but an autoattacker that wasnt as strong as jax. riot fixed the rework to make him more of a drain tank, which in no way is bad or "outdated term"

Z3SleeperMay 24, 20192 votes

I was gonna say remove the healing scaling entirely. It's the kind of thing where at level 6 it feels pretty damn pathetic but at level 11 it feels great and at level 16 it's unreasonably strong.

But your direction is probably the healthier one to go down first before even looking at the above.

I think instead of % of all healing increase it should just be % increased healing from his E's passive (ex. +35%/70%/110% healing from E, sort of balances out and makes it so you don't have to buy DD every game).

Aatrox AirlinesMay 25, 20192 votes

you'd have to buy dd every game anyway its like saying akali doesnt have to build gunblade every game

ZeyphelMay 24, 20192 votes

Aatrox is strong, but not overpowered. You just have to play around his Qs. Q1 and Q2 attack him from melee ranged and save your dash (if you have one) for Q3 and that's it. You have to be mindful of where his Q crits. After you know it, you can flip the table.

Also, now he can't dive you without risks like before. Some people get mad at him because they can't AA him to death.

He has damage levels near Zed, and a shorter dash. Zed is not considered Overpowered. Care to explain why you say AAtrox is overpowered?

iDarkWindMay 24, 20193 votes

Are you really comparing Zed to Aatrox lmao

ZeyphelMay 24, 20192 votes

In terms of damage? Yes In terms of utility? No

They are both champions that are heavily rewarded when they do combos perfectly and use skill abilities. People just refuse to learn to play against Aatrox now that he is not garbage.

Complaints are just the result of Aatrox being in a bad state during so much time. Some people got used to defeat him smashing the keyboard, and now when they try to kill him randomly they are failing which drives them crazy and then they complain infinitely.

Aatrox is not going to recibe any big nerf. If anything a really little one to calm the crying of unskilled players.

Düff McWhalenMay 24, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox is strong, but not overpowered. You just have to play around his Qs. Q1 and Q2 attack him from melee ranged and save your dash (if you have one) for Q3 and that's it. You have to be mindful of where his Q crits. After you know it, you can flip the table.

Also, now he can't dive you without risks like before. Some people get mad at him because they can't AA him to death early game.

He has damage levels near Zed, and a shorter dash. Zed is not considered Overpowered. Care to explain why you say AAtrox is overpowered?

This is true, BUT any smart Aatrox will just mouse over where the person dashing is going to be. For instance, ANYTIME I fought an Irelia top as Aatrox, she'd always end up behind me after dashing. I'd just mouse over and target behind me to hit her.

ZeyphelMay 24, 20192 votes

Play with Aatrox's mind. His Q3 casting takes some time. If he doesn't hit you with the center, he won't strike you too hard.

Sadly, Irelia's dash is targetted but still you should have more than one direction to dash. Wait until you see him use Q3 and then dash. He probably thinks you will move to the side of your tower to avoid Q3. Move to the opposite side then. I have tried it and they get confused and I take almost no damage. I didn't even dashed, he himself dash to south thinking I was going to avoid his Q3 that way, and I just moved 2 steps up. He did no damage to me and I won the trade.

Strategy to beat him is simple. Attack him at melee range if he haven't used Q1 and after he uses Q3 use your dash or move to the opposite direction.

Aatrox AirlinesMay 25, 20191 votes

then the aatrox you played against sucks lol

ZeyphelMay 26, 20191 votes

I could say the same about the players who complain about Aatrox. Could there be any possibility that their skill level is lower? No way, they are surely too good to make mistakes. The champion! That must be it!

Sebastit7dMay 25, 20191 votes

He has damage levels near Zed, and a shorter dash. Zed is not considered Overpowered. Care to explain why you say AAtrox is overpowered?

Zed doesn't dive straight into the enemy team and sustains through everything they throw at him while also chaining kills and being tanky. Who needs a longer dash when you're running at the enemy at the speed of sound?

ZeyphelMay 26, 20191 votes

''Speed of sound'' You are completely exagerating, but that's okay; players often do that when they are tilted and if you see an Aatrox trying to dive your team you just focus him and he dies because his revive only actives if he gets to kill one of your teammates. If you are staying under tower with 1 hp and expecting him not to R and go for the kill, then the one making mistakes is you. It's not Aatrox faults that people don't know what overextent is.

The sustain is good but is not anything that will stop you from killing him if you focus him. If you ignore him, that's your own problem. Don't come to boards to complain if you gifted him a kill and a free revive with it when you weren't supposed to be there.

Sebastit7dMay 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

''Speed of sound'' You are completely exagerating, but that's okay; players often do that when they are tilted and if you see an Aatrox trying to dive your team you just focus him and he dies because his revive only actives if he gets to kill one of your teammates. If you are staying under tower with 1 hp and expecting him not to R and go for the kill, then the one making mistakes is you. It's not Aatrox faults that people don't know what overextent is.

The sustain is good but is not anything that will stop you from killing him if you focus him. If you ignore him, that's your own problem. Don't come to boards to complain if you gifted him a kill and a free revive with it when you weren't supposed to be there.

Except that his sustain is ridiculous and applies to ALL healing sources, meaning that if they have any competent enchanter or any other frontliner to help he will plow through your entire team. There's a reason he's sitting at 52% WR with a high pickrate despite him being a "hard" champion.

ZeyphelMay 26, 20191 votes

That is the only thing I agree that should be fixed about Aatrox. I think the rest of his kit is balanced on the skill of both players: The one playing Aatrox and the oponent.

Aatrox AirlinesMay 25, 20191 votes

any aatrox player who isnt drunk, high or first timing the champion wont let you do that. he will throw his q1 before you jump on him or he will cancel your jump with q1 (takes practice but a veteran aatrox can pull it off), when you jump he will w you and q2e backwards and q3 you, auto you and walk away. what happens is that you ate his full combo along with all the sweetspots and you did no damage to him.

ZeyphelMay 26, 20191 votes

I never mentioned you to jump on him if he haven't used his Q1, but when he is about to use Q3 and surprisingly this new Aatrox is far from being as tanky as before after loosing the immediate revive.

Predicting where you are going to move to try hitting you (As Aatrox) takes as much skill as the enemy player to avoid being hitted with the strongest parts of Aatrox Qs. In general, I would say a skill matchup. The only thing that makes some people belief that he is too strong is because they weren't used to be punished by Aatrox so hard for bad plays and now when they face someone who has a way to answer to random agression, unskilled players get desesperated for the kill and end giving Aatrox a substantial amount of gold.

MrWasjigMay 24, 20192 votes

What I find hilarious is that they've basically made a second Riven with his multi hit damage/mobility spell, and bags of CC, all while dishing out loads of damage and being a burning pain in the arse to kill...

Aatrox AirlinesMay 25, 20191 votes

if you ever played him, his only resemblance to riven is the fact that he has 3 qs. thats it.

Lord Zeta 1313May 25, 20191 votes

Yeah, compare a faceroll Champion that doesn't have to think about using her abilities and can Focus on "Skillful" Animation cancels like the rest of us and then say that is the same a risky Damage dealer who has to hit small area's on his delayed skillshots to deal meaningful damage and have any CC.

SaevumMay 24, 20192 votes

{quoted}

please consider just reverting the Q damage buff hotfix.

And diminish Q range (aoe). But not smaller than second Q. This will passively penalize him for not executing a combo correctly. It will also penalize less champions that only have movement speed as a countermeasure for aatrox combos. This will force Aatrox players to correctly use W, as it is supposed to be.

Aatrox AirlinesMay 25, 20191 votes

it will force aatrox players to change their muscle memory which is borderline impossible

ŚhunpoMay 24, 20191 votes

Just make him squishier as a whole. He should get tankier only really from the purchase of defensive items. As it stands now he's just naturally beefy in terms of base stats. on top of the healing, meaning he's a nye-unkillable raid boss.

NyarlathοtepMay 24, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Just make him squishier as a whole. He should get tankier only really from the purchase of defensive items. As it stands now he's just naturally beefy in terms of base stats. on top of the healing, meaning he's a nye-unkillable raid boss.

Thats jugggernauts theme mate.

ŚhunpoMay 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Thats jugggernauts theme mate.

And? Right now it quite literally takes an entire team to take him down. That's not ok.

NyarlathοtepMay 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And? Right now it quite literally takes an entire team to take him down. That's not ok.

Thats how raid bosses work. Besides if you want to remove their theme because of "being oppressive" then might as well do it for assassins.

ŚhunpoMay 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Thats how raid bosses work. Besides if you want to remove their theme because of "being oppressive" then might as well do it for assassins.

Assassins are beaten by one item/CC and that's that. Aatrox needs an entire team focusing him right now to stop his rampage.

NyarlathοtepMay 27, 2019

{quoted}

Assassins are beaten by one item/CC and that's that. Aatrox needs an entire team focusing him right now to stop his rampage.

Not all can buy zhonyas. Besides, aatrox too is screwed by hard cc. Have you ever played aatrox, reached late game, only to be stun locked to death? Because i have. Aatrox is as good as illaoi at teamfights.

ŚhunpoMay 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Not all can buy zhonyas. Besides, aatrox too is screwed by hard cc. Have you ever played aatrox, reached late game, only to be stun locked to death? Because i have. Aatrox is as good as illaoi at teamfights.

Zhoynas? You think Zhoyna's is the only available defensive item in the game?

Death's Dance, Guardian Angel, Sterak's Gage, Ninja Tabi, Hexdrinker/Maw....want me to go on?

Yes, he's screwed by hard CC, which he can work around since he's a juggernaut who builds Merc treads+Steraks while also running Legend: Tenacity. Try again.

I couldn't disagree more, Aatrox is amazing in teamfights. Illaoi isn't even that bad, it's just that her main problem is initially getting the fight started and finding a way in. Aatrox is the opposite, he's great and getting in and initially causing problems, but then he becomes worse due to the fact that his Q is probably going to be down for ~2.5 seconds after the initial 4-5 seconds of the teamfight. Your comparison is as confusing as it is incorrect.

NyarlathοtepMay 28, 2019

Zhoynas? You think Zhoyna's is the only available defensive item in the game?

Im pretty sure i sentenced it correctly in a way that it is apparant that im not talking about (yet) aatrox. In the chance that i didnt, i apologize.

Death's Dance, Guardian Angel, Sterak's Gage, Ninja Tabi, Hexdrinker/Maw....want me to go on?

Assuming we are talking about squishy carries, they will still die to an assassin or burst for that matter. Afterall, damage outscales defense (excluding dd and ga, although technically you die with ga, you just get revived).

which he can work around since he's a juggernaut who builds Merc treads+Steraks while also running Legend: Tenacity. Try again.

Well sorry to disappoint you but you can run all that and you will still get stunlocked to death. And let me tell you why, displacements. Displacements as a whole might outnumber stuns. As such, chances are that you will face champions that have knockbacks and knock ups. I know it is a the nature of melee champs to face such problems, but that is exactly why aatrox is not suited for teamfights. You cant q if you are unable to press the button.

I couldn't disagree more, Aatrox is amazing in teamfights

Why because his q just happens to be aoe? Get real now all he is going to hit as a frontliner is a tank or a fellow juggernaut. And if they have high armour (which they should), they are going to deny aatrox a lot of healing. Lowering his survivability.

Illaoi isn't even that bad,

Yeah you are right. She is a lot worse than aatrox in teamfights.

it's just that her main problem is initially getting the fight started and finding a way in

Well yeah, but actually no. She isnt made to initiate a fight. You cant call it a problem when she isnt made for that. The problem with her is exactly the same as aatrox. She will get stunlocked. That and the fact that the enemy will walk away once she casts ulti. You have to build a whole team around her, for her to shine in teamfights. Something that is difficult to accomplish with strangers.

RagnaveilMay 24, 20195 votes

If anything, the healing is the only thing keeping him from being below par. Defensive stats as a whole suck, which is why Darius and Garen cant get much done, along with tanks and anyone else who relies on those stats.

Aatrox AirlinesMay 25, 20191 votes

4hp/5 base hp sucks "naturally tanky" my ass

Power CosmicMay 25, 20191 votes

He has 3 Q's and a bunch of other tools, while other champs have 1 Q and less tools. It will be hard to balance.

CaptainOrbMay 25, 20191 votes

First, they should fix the CD bug on his Q.

What the patchnotes explains :

COOLDOWN TIMER START : On first cast ⇒ After Q3 cast or after Q cast window expires

But the fact is that the cooldown timer start with the Q1/Q2 cast (or after the Q3 cast indeed). So if you have 3.6 sec on his Q, and you use Q1/Q2 without using the Q3, then when the window expires, you start with 0.6 sec CD. It's pretty annoying when the main weakness of Aatrox is the Q cooldown.