It's finally good to see Zed back in every other game.

Hence why I said perspective. I hope it wasn't taken too seriously. I mean, we could do a whole train (an easy rebuttle would be something like Zed being defenseless for 8 whole seconds. At least mages can pop a mana potion before they get their mana items).

Energy is useful for laning, yes, but wasting it is stupid. It already somewhat falls off late-game, depending on what champion you're playing.

Also, hello fellow Tomb.

[{quoted}](name=Tomb of Insomnia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g5EWBMUc,comment-id=0000000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-21T08:03:14.182+0000)

You do realize that an energy champion spamming their skills is a far more idiotic thing to do than on a mana champion?

If he throws W->E->Q at you on cooldown every single time, you will be able to fight him so easily it isn't even funny.

Yes he can use his energy to stay in lane, but don't mistake him for a fucking resourceless champion.

His energy only takes around 8-10 seconds to fully replenish. And during his distance farming he will be harassing as well. All immobile champions are completely screwed by zed, since point and click CC is being slowly removed it's only making him and champions like him stronger.

So when comparing an energy based champion to someone with a finite resource who is literally forced to rush Zhonyas, an item that gives nothing to their resource pool. I'd say that pretty much destroys any advantage you would have had otherwise. Zed simply being in your lane destroys all ability to roam (due to his wave clear being immense) or even killing him. He completely alters the dynamic of your lane unlike any other champ available.

The fact still remains, he's borderline resourceless, He has the best LH ability in the game, his ability to wave clear/split push is completely asinine, and honestly he doesn't need his ult to kill a target. I've witnessed Zed's simply throwing a shadow out using E using shurikens and switching to his shadow and 1 autoing someone.

What sets him aside from all other manaless champions is his raw ability to poke someone out of lane, 's rake is on the lower end of the range spectrum and can easily mana starve using it only a handful of times. 's daggers are good poke but do piss damage early and mid game. 's sickle is only good for last hitting or all inning. 's Q drains her mana extraordinarily quick.

can effectively poke you with decent damage and zone you off your minions at the same time. In other words he brings waaaaay more utility to a lane than your average assassin.

So what would be a good change to Zed to keep him in play while offering some counter to his constant barrage of poke, is while he has a shadow out, he will no longer regenerate energy, but as a pay off the shadow can auto applying his passive to his targets. This let's him keep his poke and waveclear but allowing for other people to play around his energy.

Nah, I was speaking from a different perspective on how mages feel playing against Zed. Like I said, all about perspective. Why did you think I include the "WAAAAA" if I wanted to be taken [too] seriously?

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g5EWBMUc,comment-id=0000000100000000000000020000,timestamp=2015-08-21T19:48:27.013+0000)

That's not even close to being true lol. If he goes off the rails that's your fault for feeding him. And as said before if you can't manage your mana then you sorta deserve to lose lane. Champions have mana for the specific reason of not being able to spam their spells indefinitely. Do you know how broken it would be if Lissandra or Syndra or Ori could spam their skills forever?

Athene's was so good that it was the go to item for mages for seasons before it was finally nerfed and at one point it was so good that mages didn't even give a shit if they were against an AD matchup. Now that it isn't completely absurd anymore you have to manage your mana.

Energy champions get a fast replenishing resource pool so they can use their abilities but they have energy for the sole purpose of NOT being able to mindlessly spam their abilities. Do you know how quickly you run out of energy if you mindlessly spam your abilities as Akali or Zed? Mana champions have the benefit of getting to increase their mana pool and getting extra regen which is a huge advantage against champions that can't increase their pool or their regens unless they get blue buff.

You don't even need to go Athenes or Morellos to get perma mana either. Double Doran's allows you to have infinite mana as long as you don't mindlessly spam like an idiot or miss every minion.

You really couldn't know how energy consumption works because all you play is Veigar. Play a few games as Zed or Akali and you'll understand how difficult it actually is to manage energy.

Zed was my introduction to Assassins, I used him before I picked up Talon and Diana. I do realize that mindlessly spamming in lane will energy starve you, but I've never seen a Zed spam for the sake of spamming. Typically you throw out your shadow, use E attempting to either clear a wave and hit the opposing champion in the process and then use your shurikens in the same manner.

Again, I'm not saying that his energy is the main problem, It's the poke mixed with wave clear that's the problem. His energy just compounds the issue but isn't the real problem. Zed in his entirety forces a mage to rush a Zhonyas to effectively deal with him in lane. Yes Zhonyas is a core item on just about every mage, Yes it's a great item that counters Zed. But in the same respect it offers no utility until completion like the core items that Zed synergizes with.

The main thing is the forcing of an item that has limited stats that actually has to be built up by acquiring CS, which Zed punishes for attempting to last hit. Which is why some (not all) mages are forced to using skills to farm with from a safer distance and quickly draining their resource pool as consequence.

To reiterate, the damage and mobility is not the issue, it's his presence and pressure in lane that's the issue. It is the same reason Ryze and Rumble were nerfed in the past, being overbearing in lane.

Depending on a champion.

Zed, for example starts, with a Long Sword, so he saves more gold than the other guy does buying Seeker's.

On the other hand a mage aganist Zed won't buy cloth armor, because Zed isn't that strong pre-6 to warrant starting the game with only defensive items.