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Should certain Champions be disallowed from buying specific items?

darkdill·Jan 21, 2019·14 votes·10,244 views

League of Legends Match History

My last match had Vayne dealing over 15k true damage thanks to having a Guinsoo's Rageblade, which makes her Silver Bolts absolutely broken. Given how it works, Riot can't change Guinsoo to not work on Vayne without screwing it up for other Champions as well, like Kog'Maw.

It reminds me of the old DotA All-Stars days where two heroes, Vengeful Spirit and Pudge, were forbidden from taking an item called Kelen's Dagger of Escape, which allowed the user to blink to a target location. These two were banned from using Kelen's Dagger because they could use an exploit to trap an enemy on unpathable terrain.

I have to wonder if certain Champions, like Vayne, should be given specific bans on items they can purchase. Would this help balance things out by preventing a Champion from taking a gamebreaking item combination, or would it go against Riot's philosophies?

20 Comments

Warlord RhinarkJan 21, 201918 votes

The thing about Vengeful Spirit and Pudge was that they were literally breaking the game.

Vayne isn't breaking the game by building Guinsoo's, she just synergizes with it really well.

In fact, she can't even use the item to it's fullest potential, since the AP and Magic Penetration is actually useless on her.

Banning Vayne from using Guinsoo's is like banning Ezreal from using Manamune or banning Jax from using Trinity Force.

It's just items they synergize with really well.

Granted, Guinsoo's is just a toxic item in general, not just on Vayne, but others like Kayle and Master Yi go from "Tolerable" to "Oh God, leave me alone" once they get it.

And given how Riot keeps trying to rework it, I'd say that, at this point, it's better to just remove the item as a whole.

darkdillJan 21, 20191 votes

Sadly they can't remove it, because the real Guinsoo would have their heads.

/s

Warlord RhinarkJan 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Sadly they can't remove it, because the real Guinsoo would have their heads.

You sure?

I mean, in the original DOTA there was an item called Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse, but when Valve made DOTA 2 they removed the Guinsoo's in the name.

I don't think Guinsoo's tried to kill the people at Valve for it.

Besides, Riot has clearly removed references in the past when they removed Grez' Spectral Lantern from the game.

Regardless, can't Riot just find some other item to slap his name on it?

Guinsoo's Bloodthirster? Guinsoo's Black Cleaver? Guinsoo's Frozen Mallet?

Jerry SeinfeIdJan 21, 20191 votes

considering he'd go on to work for riot his name being removed from dota 2 seems kinda like the obvious move. I also don't know who designed that scythe item but guinsoo did design rageblade.

idk if he even works at riot anymore tho.

Warlord RhinarkJan 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g4pUlT2L,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T15:32:15.244+0000)

considering he'd go on to work for riot his name being removed from dota 2 seems kinda like the obvious move. I also don't know who designed that scythe item but guinsoo did design rageblade.

idk if he even works at riot anymore tho.

According to the wikia, he doesn't.

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Steve_%27Guinsoo%27_Feak

Daddy AntsJan 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g4pUlT2L,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-21T07:33:20.736+0000)

The thing about Vengeful Spirit and Pudge was that they were literally breaking the game.

Vayne isn't breaking the game by building Guinsoo's, she just synergizes with it really well.

In fact, she can't even use the item to it's fullest potential, since the AP and Magic Penetration is actually useless on her.

Finally... Someone on the boards who actually speaks sense.

ProfDrDeathJan 21, 201910 votes

If they want, they can easily kill Vayne's Guinsoo's build with a simple change - have Silver Bolts apply on-attack instead of on-hit. Except killing Guinsoo's on her, it would not change a thing - she'd still apply a stack with every auto and E, which is coded to apply a stack.

Warlord RhinarkJan 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

If they want, they can easily kill Vayne's Guinsoo's build with a simple change - have Silver Bolts apply on-attack instead of on-hit. Except killing Guinsoo's on her, it would not change a thing - she'd still apply a stack with every auto and E, which is coded to apply a stack.

Well, there is the problem of Vayne still applying stacks of Silver Bolts even if the auto attacks doesn't actually hit.

She'd be able to damage a Jax through his Counter Strike, damage a Shen through his Spirit's Refuge, damage a Teemo through his Blinding Dart, damage a Yasuo through his Wind Wall, etc. etc.

Plus, it would just look weird seeing Silver Bolts get applied before the auto attack actually connects with the target.

GigglesOJan 21, 20197 votes

They can fix it. Just make it like mordes 3rd q. You can’t use the phantom hit to skip a q and get to third q faster.

Pretty sure one of xins third hits doesn’t work with rage blade as well.

Lucky DoubleJan 21, 20192 votes

no

FakeGravityJan 21, 20192 votes

talking of looking some champions from buying certain items, why not make the opposite and have items give different effects to some champions? it could be use to balance champions around their gold and item choices. i imagine something like soraka's E working on monster but only if she buy hunters talisman, or mundo W having double damage but removing the sunfire cape effect if he buy sunfire cape, and my favorite would be allowing some champions move while using their channel skills if they buy zhonyas but they cant use the active

SanKakUJan 21, 20191 votes

I like your thinking here.

Daddy AntsJan 21, 20191 votes

2 health stacking tanks.

SweedishGunnerJan 22, 20191 votes

If this was implemented you could make it so Viktor couldn't buy Iceborn and then the nerfs could be reverted and he wouldn't be trash tier. I'm sold.

Daddy AntsJan 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If this was implemented you could make it so Viktor couldn't buy Iceborn and then the nerfs could be reverted and he wouldn't be trash tier. I'm sold.

They'd have to make it melee only for that.

Not a big deal tbh... Fuck Ezreal and Viktor.

SanKakUJan 22, 20191 votes

If it helps any, the damage from Viktor's spellblade, whether buying IBG or TF is getting converted into magic damage if the spellblade trigger comes from his Q. Knowledge is power.

SweedishGunnerJan 22, 20191 votes

They still won't revert the Q CD though.

SanKakUJan 23, 20191 votes

I don't really remember any nerfs to Viktor other than his ultimate being slower. Not saying they haven't happened, but I don't think any of them are significant. Are you referring to a nerf that is planned? I just assumed you thought that them nerfing him in the future is inevitable for some reason. I kind of think that Viktor is a gimmicky champ at the moment that capitalizes on the opponents' lack of game knowledge because of the obscure mechanic of how his Q works that I mentioned.

SweedishGunnerJan 23, 20191 votes

Q base damage and CD nerfed, it's the CD nerf that really hurts, you can't kite anymore.

BigFBearJan 22, 20191 votes

No

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