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Why can't we have 1 more support item?

DJ S0NA··96 votes·12,943 views

I think 3 support items still aren't enough for the league. I want to re-introduce an item that was really really good in our good old Black Market Brawlers.

http://i.imgur.com/w4vieNP.png

http://i.imgur.com/CDYoV76.png

http://i.imgur.com/rtuUEpb.png

Murksphere, Swindler Orb and Globe of Trust were godlike items for passive supports like Janna , Nami and even Sona .

These items are perfect and cannot be used in other places due to not having enough stats for competing against someone. The active shield is SO FREAKING GOOD, I mean I remember perfectly using this on Sona and it was so freaking good. So much gold due to the shield and it makes laning phase really good.

I abused the shizzle out of this item on BMB because it makes me use more actives on league.

Globe of Trust (final item), giving a target shield, makes up for Locket of the Iron Solari's lack of shield, and it competes with other gold income items. Globe of Trust can be really useful for instant protection, gold generation vs minions (still has a cap) and team protection.

The active generated nearly 38 gold per 15 seconds if the shield is fully used. It makes up for the lack of passive gold generation.

Come on Riot. Make passive supports dream come true and re-release this item on a daily basis for Summoner's Rift. This fine example of a support item really clarifies that Riot has beautiful and awesome ideas for support items. And this support item was the topping on the cake.

73 Comments

TNHA Baritone27 votes

I always wondered why support never got rewarded for actually shielding allies from damage.

Poptart Evelynn39 votes

[{quoted}](name=Midnight Karma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g20gTV9b,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-02-25T11:29:44.081+0000)

I always wondered why support never got rewarded for actually shielding allies from damage.

They do get rewarded. They are saved/win the fight because of the shield.

...

TNHA Baritone12 votes

Would it be too hard to add a mastery that words similar to Spellthiefs line that gives you gold whenever you shield someone from CHAMPION damage ?

Would it be too much?

(Honest Question)

Poptart Evelynn11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Midnight Karma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g20gTV9b,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-02-25T11:33:30.923+0000)

Would it be too hard to add a mastery that words similar to Spellthiefs line that gives you gold whenever you shield someone from CHAMPION damage ?

Would it be too much?

(Honest Question)

So lets say you make a mastery to give you gold when you shield someone.

A - They have to maximize cdr asap and spam shield even if it's horrible time to do it. B - You put a timer on it but you're still forced to use it constantly off of cooldown. C - If you make it so the gold is based on receiving damage with shield up it will be up to the enemy if you make gold and not on your skill.

It promotes players to just spam shield and not think of when to use it outside of "I get gold from doing it".

See the issue?

TNHA Baritone4 votes

I agree and see your point but for the sake of debate:

If you make it so the gold is based on receiving damage with shield up it will be up to the enemy if you make gold and not on your skill.

You can argue that it is a 2 side effort for whether you receive any extra gold as an enemy can zone and kill you...or can let you kill them (not directly, not intent feed)

A - They have to maximize cdr asap and spam shield even if it's horrible time to do it. B - You put a timer on it but you're still forced to use it constantly off of cooldown.

Most Always-Max CDR (such as karma or sona) supports 2nd max their shield for anyways.

Poptart Evelynn3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Midnight Karma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g20gTV9b,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-25T11:43:31.264+0000)

I agree and see your point but for the sake of debate:

You can argue that it is a 2 side effort for whether you receive any extra gold as an enemy can zone and kill you...or can let you kill them (not directly, not intent feed) B - You put a timer on it but you're still forced to use it constantly off of cooldown.

Most Always-Max CDR (such as karma or sona) supports 2nd max their shield for anyways.

So you want to create unhealthy game play patterns? Why should players be put in the position that they want to use their skills just to make gold instead of actually defending or fighting?

As for the second part. Why would you create a game play pattern that forces players to buy CDR even if they should get a different item for the lane/game?

TNHA Baritone4 votes

What support has a forceful shield that doesn't get at least 20% CDR?

Why should players be put in the position that they want to use their skills just to make gold instead of actually defending or fighting?

It's gold income for supports who usually get the least gold on the team.

item 3303 item 3098 item 3092

Poptart Evelynn3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Midnight Karma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g20gTV9b,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-25T11:57:40.511+0000)

What support has a forceful shield that doesn't get at least 20% CDR?

It's gold income for supports who usually get the least gold on the team.

item 3303 item 3098 item 3092

They don't actually have to use skills and it's a choice of "I want to go an aggressive support item to support my aggressive pick". It supports trading blows in lane and poking the enemy down.

It's healthy to promote offensive fighting because you are rewarded for gold and the damage you have done.

However just shielding your ally even though he wont be hit because you want gold is unhealthy.

TNHA Baritone4 votes

However just shielding your ally even though** he wont be hit** because you want gold is unhealthy.

You wouldn't get gold if he / she isn't hit. It promotes passive style of supports that we haven't seen outside of items in great numbers.

(Like I said, I agree with you, just posing a question and seeing where this debate goes)

Poptart Evelynn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Midnight Karma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g20gTV9b,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-25T12:03:52.383+0000)

You wouldn't get gold if he / she isn't hit. It promotes passive style of supports that we haven't seen outside of items in great numbers.

(Like I said, I agree with you, just posing a question and seeing where this debate goes)

If the gold is reliant on the enemy hitting then what is the counter play to the item? Is it healthy counter play?

This forces the enemy to not want to fight to cut off your gold income making it a bad buy for the buyer of the item. Doesn't sound like healthy game play either.

TNHA Baritone3 votes

Well I'd assume that popping the shield wouldn't give any.

It's all about reinforcing protection.

It Hertz When IP4 votes

Counterplay is to not poke them. Mana spent on throwing out a shield is mana that Nami can't spend on CCing you, Sona can't spend on poking you, Karma Janna can't spend on harassing you... Most supports don't spam shields for a reason. Focus more on CS and less on poke (which is more profitable for you in the long run) and there won't be a problem.

Besides, there isn't any real counterplay for the item 3301 line of gold generation besides massively zoning the support, which if you can do consistently then you're probably dominating the lane already.

Supreme Senpai691 votes

Does it need counterplay? That's a bit like saying Spellthief's has no counterplay. The enemy doesn't stay out of the support's range to cut off gold income because the gold income is minimal.

Poptart Evelynn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g20gTV9b,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2016-02-25T22:28:38.654+0000)

Does it need counterplay? That's a bit like saying Spellthief's has no counterplay. The enemy doesn't stay out of the support's range to cut off gold income because the gold income is minimal.

Spell thief has the opposite though. It's risky to try and get the gold and you can take advantage of it.

Hoodwink33 votes

There should be an announcement by the announcer every time an ally survives just slightly thanks to the efforts of a comrade.

"AN ALLY HAS BEEN SAVED!"

RiotRiot Sotere68 votes

Yes please.

Penta Penguin7 votes

"Hey riot can you tell us about this particular thing?"

"My favorite cookie is chocolate"

B1naryB0t14 votes

Contrary to popular belief, all Rioters are not controlled by 1 hivemind, and 95% of them probably have 0 influence over any decision about the thing in question.

MVDuneCats27 votes

"AN ALLY HAS BEEN S-"

Ally goes back in and dies.

"nevermind"

Ultraboomer13 votes

"AN ALLY HAS BEEN SAV-SLAIN! I was totally gonna say slain..."

EmollientNut05 votes

"AN ALLY MAKES BAD DECISIONS."

SkyBlade791 votes

How about instead of "an ally has been saved" we get a dunkey voiceover?

"NOT EVEN CLOSE, BABY."

La Barbotte3 votes

cause riot loves dmg dealers, why do you think annie shenanigans is still allowed to this day

Poptart Evelynn8 votes

There is a lot of game play patterns within that item that would make it very bad for the design values of the game though ._.

MrWasjig6 votes

design values

Like Riot still follows those, good joke man :D http://res.cloudinary.com/urbandictionary/image/upload/a_exif,c_fit,h_200,w_200/v1395991705/gjn81wvxqsq6yzcwubok.png

ThePompf5 votes

"Passive supports"

Nami Sona

.....

WHAT?

DJ S0NA1 votes

Heh. I just love this item on Sona. Used so much on that mode and got so many wins. It gives so much protection and that mana regen is no joke. Since it has no other combat stats, unless 20% CDR, it's perfect for support and useless in other lanes.

ThePompf2 votes

I would probably still build Sona with item 3092 because of her strong poke(this is her job in lane. You should know that :D) I was just surprised you called Sona and Nami PASSIVE supports. Because they are FAR away from that.

Rendarkan7 votes

They are passive until you see they build item 3100. Then you know shits gonna get real.

Lady Birdthulu1 votes

then you've never seen a sona/nami played right. They're agro AF. Karma is even more agro- like an annie or brand or veigar or cassio support. And yes. I do Cassio support. Shenanigans are real.

FantasySniper2 votes

I loved the item, but it would be pretty hard to balance it. Especially with Windspeaker's Blessing.

CoolKnightST4 votes

It was beast on poke supports like Karma. And was litterly the perfect item for them:

  • The active provided more value on short trades by spells or abilities. They no longer had to rely on their own shield while trading.
  • Cooldown reduction is the primary stats of poke supports
  • Mana regen is the secondary stat of poke supports

The problems started to apear on his tier 3 forms:

  • Odd design since you could no longer selfcast it unlike the previous tiers
  • The delay was bigger
  • The visuals didn't match the area and was unclear in the first place

Unlike other gold income items their was more power involved arround tier 1-2 what mainly gave those issues.

If we want this back in a different forms than I suggest something like this:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/21/Murksphere_item.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/32 Tier 1 - Murksphere

  • UNIQUE Passive - SWINDLER's SHIELD: Shields yourself from the next 30 damage. You generate 1 gold every 3 damage absorbed (maximum 10). You won't generate gold from monster damage. The shield regenerates himself over 30 seconds.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/4/49/Swindler%27s_Orb_item.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/32 Tier 2 - Swindler's Orb

  • UNIQUE Passive - SWINDLER's SHIELD: Shields yourself from the next 60 damage. You generate 1 gold every 3 damage absorbed (maximum 10). You won't generate gold from monster damage. The shield regenerates himself over 60 seconds.

#http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/0/08/Globe_of_Trust_item.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/32 Tier 3 - Globe of Trust

  • UNIQUE Passive - SWINDLER's SHIELD: Shields yourself from the next 60 damage. You generate 1 gold every 3 damage absorbed (maximum 10). You won't generate gold from monster damage. The shield regenerates himself over 60 seconds.

  • UNIQUE Active – SAFE HARBOR: Expends his SWINDLER's SHIELD to protect nearby allies shielding up to 300 total damage. You won't recieve gold from the absorbed damage. After use SWINDLER's SHIELD is disabled for 3 seconds. 60 seconds cooldown.

DJ S0NA2 votes

Those passives you mentioned was actually actives. Even Murskphere was an active shield. I suggest Increasing the cooldown of the active shield to 45 seconds on Murskphere and Swindler's Orb and reduce to 30 when buying Orb of Trust.

Or having a 15 second cooldown and having it to charge on movement (much like Dead Man's Plate), for "counter play".

And since you cannot have gold income with your idea, I suggest adding 2+ gold per 10 as another extra stat.

Maximum Morde3 votes

I wouldn't mind seeing an AD support item. We already have an AP one in the Spellthief line, a tank one in the Relic Shield line, and a generalist one with the Talisman line.

OmniOmega2 votes

Riot has stated in the past that they don't want actives to be the reason that certain items are chosen as they want to make champion choice more impactful than item choice. This item line goes directly against that design principle as it turns any support into a sustain support.

What are the weaknesses of supports like Brand, Zyra, Vel'koz, Soraka, or Sona? They're squishy. Give them a shield and you mitigate their primary weakness. In addition, the shield is comparable to other level 1 shields. The item gives a bonus ability. Think about how powerful getting level 2 and 3 before your opponent is. Now imagine that you walk into lane with this advantage. And it comes without the risk of shoving your lane out.

The three support options already cover support playstyles pretty well. Get Relic Shield if you want some tank stats for yourself and some sustain for your ADC (ranged champions can get it too, they just don't get the execute), get Spellthief's Edge if you want to trade aggressively, get Ancient Coin if you want sustain for yourself. Introducing Murksphere just gives supports that need to maintain aggression in order to maintain zone and safety a way to do so without much risk.

TheNewHumanine2 votes

Not sure Nami and Sona are exactly passive, they can get some nasty harass off in lane if they position well.

As for the item, it just seems like a weaker skillshot version of item 3190, which doesn't really provide much extra utility. The gold is an interesting factor, but I don't think it's enough to make up for the lost MR aura and the much more easily applied AoE shield.

It's an interesting concept as an item for supports in lanes that are looking to trade a lot, but I don't think this item as it is will see much use if introduced.

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

No No No No No No No and No

BMB items should never come to normal SR. They took DMP, probably the 2nd weakest of the BMB items, and put it in normal SR, and it is still the premier armor item for semi-tanks and even many tanks. Now we're adding the item that was made to be the top support item?

A Liberal1 votes

I was really hoping they would add The Staff of Flowing Waters TBH

B1naryB0t1 votes

That one was the most lackluster of all of them.

A Liberal1 votes

While yes, It was lackluster in the sense that it wasn't super flashy or unique for the sake of being unique (Like the puppeteer one or the mirror one), I feel like it was a really good item on a lot of midlane mages. I loved the roaming potential it gave some champions, particularly Ahri

DJ S0NA1 votes

SotFW was actually bugged because it gave 20% cooldown reduction. Yes I knew the bug, riot didn't fixed when BMB was on and used it alot in combination with Globe of Trust.

The item was only useful for roaming supports and probably AP supports.

CasterGilgamesh4 votes

DMP isnt even that good its picked because people need some way to have even the smallest chance of not getting kited to death.....

Marshmallow Wolf1 votes

speaking of, you have no idea how much fun full ap malphite with tricksters glass was.

kaltenashes1 votes

what about my ad ashe support?

marksman can be support 2 .hunf

Arkantasa1 votes

yup

LlamaOP1 votes

[deleted]

DarkRitual1 votes

Indeed, it would potentially become a better sustain item for top laners, with bonus gold generation.

dunkeroni1 votes

AP Start Items: item 1056 item 1082 AD Start Items: item 1055 item 1083 Support Items: item 3302 item 3301 item 3303 Tank Start Items: item 1054

Yup. I concur. Supports DEFINITELY have the least items of anyone in that list. We need more of them. Otherwise, there are just no choices left.

Sincerely, A support main

BRBGTGBOWFLEX1 votes

AP mid have the option of starting with the AP support item, boots + pots, dorans + pots, health stone + pots, seal + pots, or even a book + a pot, or even a corrupting potion.

ADC have a choice between doran's, cull, or long-sword 3.

Tanks have dorans, longsword 3, healthstone 2, boots +4, corrupting potion, longsword + refillable (they can make use of it due to TP).

Supports basically need their start item to have any income at all, and then sightstone is the defacto next item, making their build paths a bit limited. That a sightstone rarely has a real upgrade path is a bit of a thorn.

There is a small issue with supprot itemization and the support role is better than it was, but still not really equal to the other roles in terms of gold budget. I think most end with way less gold than the other champions. There's also the issue that the 3rd tier of gold income item always seems to be a bit lackluster in gold generation, targons you are lucky to get the stacks/ +is position dependent, frostfang is too limited by the amount of teamfights available, and coin has lackluster stats compared to others.

It remains the least desired role in queues, so it is something to look at.

10Tickler1 votes

Why not an AD Support Item? I still play Gangplank and Illaoi Support. and it would make Off-meta duo lanes capable of keeping up with the poke some :C

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