Riot please listen to the community and do not rework Vel'koz

DJ S0NA·Jan 22, 2016·350 votes·26,331 views

Everythng he has is unique.

Unique passive, unique Q spell that takes skill, unique playstyle
Fun to play against and with, is not broken, has a healthly kit, can be played as a healthly support, has a long range ultimate that can be stopped with CC, etc.

He is one of those champions that if it's touched, he's completely destroyed. I have personally never seen anyone complain about him being weak, too strong, not picked that often, annoying, etc. Which means he's in a perfect state.

Please consider scrapping the rework and go into another mage like Syndra for a gameplay update.

369 Comments

Zero Skill TankJan 22, 201694 votes

Hi's kit looks unique because of fancy shapes but in fact it serves the exact same purpose the other long-range mages do. There are two reasons to pick Vel'koz:

a) you just like him b) some change in the game made him stronger than Lux/Zig/Xer

Because he has literally no 'shtick' like the other 3 do(Lux has shield, Zig has area control, Xer is the most damage oriented), he is the one reworked out of 4 of them. This sucks but this is good change for the game. They don't rework him because there is problem with him directly. They could do this to Xer as well but they reworked him once already.

Also it won't be a full-scale rework like Poppy or Sion, but something more like Dario and Garen, they will likely keep his playstyle ony giving him something truly 'his'.

therealdragonJan 22, 201614 votes

{quoted}

Hi's kit looks unique because of fancy shapes but in fact it serves the exact same purpose the other long-range mages do. There are two reasons to pick Vel'koz:

a) you just like him b) some change in the game made him stronger than Lux/Zig/Xer

Because he has literally no 'shtick' like the other 3 do(Lux has shield, Zig has area control, Xer is the most damage oriented), he is the one reworked out of 4 of them. This sucks but this is good change for the game. They don't rework him because there is problem with him directly. They could do this to Xer as well but they reworked him once already.

Also it won't be a full-scale rework like Poppy or Sion, but something more like Dario and Garen, they will likely keep his playstyle ony giving him something truly 'his'.

Why would I pick Vel'koz over ziggs?

Vel'koz has 2 skillshots that go through minions and combine for true damage. Whereas ziggs has.....a Q.

Vel'koz has a Q that can be used to pick off opponents if they're not looking. Ziggs has....a Q.

Vel'koz has a lazor that can decimate teamfights if positioned correctly. Ziggs has.....an ult that tells you where its landing....

Vel'koz has a passive that deals extra true damage. Ziggs has.....a passive that deals extra magic damage.

Why would I pick Ziggs over Vel'koz? The only reason you pick Ziggs is for his Q and his ult and MAYBE his w for cc. Besides that, no one cares about Ziggs. You pick Vel'koz for geometry, for lazors, and for killing noobs who aren't looking (lol).

I see there a complete reason to pick Vel'koz over other mages.

OrangesilkJan 22, 201649 votes

Let's be honest, the differences are minimal, their role in teams are the same. Vel doesn't have anything truly different in his kit aside from his passive, and having "true damage" isn't really a mechanic, it's only a numerical difference regarding the damage type.

Auz the RipperJan 22, 20166 votes

Vel'koz however has much higher bases than almost all other mages and much lower ratios. This gives Vel alot more freedom in his build and gives him the ability to deal significant damage almost regardless of his build.

That's his Niche, being always relevant as long as the player lands the skill shots.

Ziggs or xerath are both very gold dependent and can easily be shutdown by a competent opponent. Lux is less gold dependent than those two but is far more burst-oriented and lacks the sustained damage of Vel'koz.

Sightless66Jan 22, 20161 votes

It doesn't really give him more build freedom. There's still a best build with Vel'Koz. You can still mathematically calculate out what's going to hurt most, and people have. It's just different from some other AP champions. That doesn't really matter to me because the specific items he gets for damage don't really change how he plays.

And he's not always relevant either. Having lower gold-scaling means he's tuned more into level scaling, and when he's behind he falls behind in levels just as quickly as anyone else and suffers more for it. He's just as bad as any other low-utility character when he's behind. Any difference there is small enough that it's not enough to be worth picking him for, so it's not really a strategic niche.

It Hertz When IPJan 23, 20166 votes

There is a "best" build, I don't think anyone's really arguing against that. I think the idea was that going with a custom AP build directed towards countering a specific enemy champion or team comp won't cripple his damage output as much compared to his ideal build, unlike say Morgana or Lux. I can (or could, anyway) elect to get Twin Shadows if my team was really light on CC and not feel like I'm gimping him too much. CDR, mana, and Liandry's/Luden's make him an efficient poke, MPen and raw AP make him a decent burst mage, Rylai's + Luden's + CDR results in a decent peel/CC mage.

tl;dr: He may have an optimal build like everyone else, but he isn't punished as much for straying from it.

Zero Skill TankJan 22, 20165 votes

Besides that, no one cares about Ziggs.

This is exactly the problem. When Vel happens to be stronger, no one looks at Ziggs. When Ziggs/Lux/Xer was strong no one even cared about Vel. But Ziggs has his two area control abilities, so it is Vel'koz who gets changes.

Un MojonJan 22, 20166 votes

Ziggs has zone control. THat's why he was picked when he was good. When the meta is about objective control Ziggs shines.

Vel'Koz is different from Ziggs beause he has true damage and the ability to decimate an entire team in a teamfight. Ziggs is much less about burst and more about constant poke. With Vel'Koz you're trying to stack your passive and take advantage of it, as in, play smartly. WIth Ziggs, again, is more about constantly poking and harrasing the enemy while keeping zone control. These champions play nothing alike. If you're going to 1v1 someone with Vel'Koz it's all about paying attention to your stacks and landing the perfect combo. Laning with ziggs is about poking the hell out of your opponent until he has to leave lane because you out traded him.

There are many other champions in the game where their kit is fairly similar (specially with melees and tanks) but they have their own purpose and gameplay. VK really needs no rework at all, and absolutely nobody is asking for it. Meanwhile you have Katarina the most binary champion in the game, or Karma which is a mage in much more need for a rework. But instead they're meddling with something that is perfectly fine right now. It makes absolutely no sense.

NarasimhaJan 22, 20165 votes

Ziggs has zone control. That's why he was picked when he was good.

...Wait, what? I don't think you're using the right term.

Heim has zone control. Zyra has zone control. Illaoi has zone control.

What Ziggs had was sieging power. The ability to safely wear down the enemy without being in too much danger himself.

Un MojonJan 22, 201614 votes

No, I used the right term. When Ziggs was played competitively he could single-handledly control the zone around dragon by blocking the entrances with W and E while also using Q. This was also true for other objectives, Ziggs could control a zone and force the enemy to take a different approach. He did have sieging power because every poke champion does, just like how Varus, Lux, and heimer have sieging power.

Zero Skill TankJan 22, 20164 votes

Just because they lane differently or they skills have different shapes doesn't mean they don't fill the same role in team: they poke, they siege, they control the zone and they have sick combo for teamfights. Xer and Lux also do just the same thing, differences are minor enough that it's their current state that determines pick, not strategical decision.

Un MojonJan 22, 20169 votes

So what, there are plenty of champions who fill the same role in the game. I can do the same thing and strip down every tank to their basic functions and roles and they will sound like they are the same thing. But in reality they aren't. How they play, their mechanics and skills define them. Just like how VK and Ziggs are two different things and although they play similarly on a very basic and broad level, in reality their gameplay is different.

Zero Skill TankJan 22, 20163 votes

So what, there are plenty of champions who fill the same role in the game.

Yes there are, and mass reworks are all about changing that state.

Un MojonJan 22, 20164 votes

So when are we getting the rework for assasins? we have around 7 so we have to have a single assassin, after all we can only have one champion in one role.

elon wątrobaJan 22, 20164 votes

Assassin rework is incoming too, I guess it will happen in preseason 7 or early 2017.

DJ S0NAJan 22, 20168 votes

While I agree the "pick x champion just because you like him", I never seen anyone complain about facing a Vel'koz. There are many many mages are in dire of an update like Syndra that I mentioned. Others can be Annie for her "no counterplay kit and ult", Cho'gath, Fiddlesticks, Galio, Swain and Ryze. There are so many others that deserve this type of update, but messing with a champion that no one complained about "not being picked, not being strong, being annoying, etc". Other can be for sure, but he is the only champion I have never seen anyone complain.

iamleburkJan 22, 20167 votes

That means he has a healthy kit. But Riot doesn't just rework unhealthy kits, they rework kits that don't have a good niche or dont fit the identity well enough.

Right now Vel'koz doesn't have a niche. So they're going to give him one. Instead of complaining about changes before you realize what they are going to change, help them out and give them suggestions on what you want done. TELL them what you want his niche to be, instead of waiting for the rework to come out and start bitching about Riot ruining your champion and how you were "right all along about not reworking him."

Dogs of PeaceJan 22, 20162 votes

Vel'Koz has a "niche" it is that of his Q ability where he can split it. Takes a skilled shot that is high damage and gives it a high chance of hit success. It is the perfect ability in my opinion; shooting off to the side to miss a wave of minions or around a tank to take out the ADC. The fact that it also slows, priceless.

WoonStruckJan 22, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dogs of Peace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4yRWzce3,comment-id=0003000100020000,timestamp=2016-01-22T18:37:13.551+0000)

Vel'Koz has a "niche" it is that of his Q ability where he can split it. Takes a skilled shot that is high damage and gives it a high chance of hit success. It is the perfect ability in my opinion; shooting off to the side to miss a wave of minions or around a tank to take out the ADC. The fact that it also slows, priceless.

A unique ability doesn't define a 'niche.' Its just a unique ability. He can do with losing the fissure in place of something more interesting. Ult can be a little more interesting with a couple tweaks.

Vel'Koz doesn't have a niche. There's no reason to pick him because there's nothing that defines him as far as strategy goes. That's what Riot wants to change.

You may enjoy him, and that's why you play him, but Riot's looking for something to set him apart from other casters as far as strategy goes.

iamleburkJan 23, 20163 votes

Yea, thats it. One ability doesn't make a kit unique. I have a feeling they are going to have him focus more on that Q and remove the W to give him something else.

bradJan 22, 20169 votes

{quoted}

Hi's kit looks unique because of fancy shapes but in fact it serves the exact same purpose the other long-range mages do. There are two reasons to pick Vel'koz:

a) you just like him b) some change in the game made him stronger than Lux/Zig/Xer

Because he has literally no 'shtick' like the other 3 do(Lux has shield, Zig has area control, Xer is the most damage oriented), he is the one reworked out of 4 of them. This sucks but this is good change for the game. They don't rework him because there is problem with him directly. They could do this to Xer as well but they reworked him once already.

Also it won't be a full-scale rework like Poppy or Sion, but something more like Dario and Garen, they will likely keep his playstyle ony giving him something truly 'his'.

so what? i dont see the problem with picking a champion because you like them. i dont see a problem with making those three champions balanced, and letting the player choose who they would enjoy playing the most. when you have an almost unanimous 'dont change vel'koz' do you really think there should be a "reason to pick him" over anyone else? seems like a lot of people already do pick him, and already do enjoy him. why ruin that?

Zero Skill TankJan 22, 20165 votes

Picking what you like instead of picking strategically makes game a little less deep, picking your poke mage solely based on 'he is stronger than Ziggs now' is what the problem is. If you look at Velkoz pickrate history you will see spikes of popularity when some change in the game makes him FOTM, followed by winrate drops (because players who are weak with him picked him up because he is FOTM). Few champions have their FOTM syndrome as obvious as poke mages, and Riot hopes that changing Velkoz a little will help with that.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/velkoz/all

RiotCaptain GameplayJan 23, 201660 votes

We hear all of you on Vel'koz, and our opinions on him are actually very similar to yours. We love his combos, his geometry, death laser, and true damage. There is very little likelihood that his abilities will be changed in how they are used (with possible exception of his W), or his play significantly altered.

However we also want players in a draft to see their comp, their opponent's comp, and pick Vel'koz thinking "this would be a great game specifically for Vel'koz" rather than simply "this would be a great game for any long range mage with a lot of AoE". For scope context, currently the plan for Vel'koz is much more along the lines of Caitlyn, who also kept essentially her entire kit, but had it unified around headshots.

LVL 5 POROJan 23, 20165 votes

Doesn't Vel'koz already have that? He's the mage equivalent of Miss Fortune. Your team has lockdown and the enemy team is immobile? This is a great game for Vel'koz, because his ult can disintegrate everyone while they're CCed.

hopeful4Jan 23, 20163 votes

So his abilities will remain as bland as they currently are (except maybe the ulti and Q)? Why do you listen to these forums, nothing good ever comes out of it. If you had a plan on trying to make him truly unique and not another generic mage whos only loved here because tentacles, then just go ahead with it.

BetaDude40Jan 23, 201615 votes

Call them as bland as you want; all of his kit works really well together. Not everything has to be new and unique, sometimes a new spin on a simplistic design is all that it takes.

DrCyanideJan 23, 201628 votes

For scope context, currently the plan for Vel'koz is much more along the lines of Caitlyn, who also kept essentially her entire kit, but had it unified around headshots.

So how often will we hear Vel'koz say "Boom, headshot" per second?

RiotCaptain GameplayJan 23, 201669 votes

No, no, close but wrong. He says "Knowledge through Deconstruction" instead! And the rate this occurs doubles every 3.14 minutes, starting from 1 per sqrt(2) seconds.

Occasionally he says "Oh darn" instead...

DJ S0NAJan 23, 20165 votes

You did the Pi. Velkoz

While I found it funny, I wouldn't mind his "Knowledge through Desintigration" voice over said more times.

EZ CIapJan 23, 201630 votes

Sqrt(2)? It seems Vel'Koz is not as rational as I thought :^).

Cries in corner about bad math joke

Nicorus Jan 23, 20161 votes

doesn't he gain 3.14 ap per level already?

ObericJan 23, 20166 votes

No champion gains natural AP per level. He does get 3.14 AD per level though.

AlleoJan 23, 201619 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot BelugaWhale,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4yRWzce3,comment-id=005900050000,timestamp=2016-01-23T02:23:38.454+0000)

Occasionally he says "Oh darn" instead...

Please do this...

WyrmbladeJan 23, 20163 votes

"this would be a great game for any long range mage with a lot of AoE"

I don't think you guys get it.

Vel'koz is THE long range mage with a lot of AOE. That's his whole niche, and if it's a niche Miss Fortune can fill for Marksmen then I don't see why Vel'koz can't fill it for mages.

SuperLuigiLXIVJan 23, 20169 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot BelugaWhale,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4yRWzce3,comment-id=0059,timestamp=2016-01-23T01:54:01.246+0000)

We hear all of you on Vel'koz, and our opinions on him are actually very similar to yours. We love his combos, his geometry, death laser, and true damage. There is very little likelihood that his abilities will be changed in how they are used (with possible exception of his W), or his play significantly altered.

However we also want players in a draft to see their comp, their opponent's comp, and pick Vel'koz thinking "this would be a great game specifically for Vel'koz" rather than simply "this would be a great game for any long range mage with a lot of AoE". For scope context, currently the plan for Vel'koz is much more along the lines of Caitlyn, who also kept essentially her entire kit, but had it unified around headshots.

"scope context" and you use Caitlyn as an example.

Don't try any punny business with me mister, I don't miss the subtle stuff [zombie-brand-clap]

GoosetardJan 22, 201632 votes

A lot of people don't want him reworked and Riot's (almost literal) response was "Don't worry, you'll like it."

Forgive us if our faith is shaky in the Riot rework machine. I understand that there's a creative process, that it's imperfect, and everyone's human and makes mistakes. I understand that sometimes changes are a mixed bag and what some people dislike others like. But can't we save this kind of thing for a champion that really NEEDS it? There are more than a few on the roster.

clleshJan 22, 20166 votes

personally i dont understand why everyone is so fast to give riot a pass.... they are a company, they are making products for consumers.... if they make a bad product we as consumers should be vocal, upfront, and respectful....

but so often anything that speaks badly of riot is just shot down....

pray for vel

Un MojonJan 22, 201616 votes

Morde Rework: "Don't worry! you'll like it! you'll have to trust us on this!"

Now Morde mains (those two poor souls) don't play Morde. ADCs don't play Morde. No plans to fix him ever. And he lost all the identity he had.

GorgiolioJan 22, 201617 votes

Oh come on, now you guys are being a wee bit silly. You can't possibly compare a slight gameplay rework, to a complete gutting to force morde into the bottom lane. They're even asking the people who play these champions for ideas! Does anyone even pay attention? Also, they have worked on morde for fucks sakes! His W can be casted on minions, they gave a relative buff too his shield, and his E feels better now too. You can take him too the top lane, rush a rylais and do perfectly fine. I don't have experience with him in the mid lane atm.

KalarepaJan 22, 20165 votes

I bet, you will have to play some kind of annoying minigame to do the same damage, old Vel'koz did. That's Riot's newest way to add "depth" to champions kits.

Un MojonJan 22, 201631 votes

Literally trying to fix what isn't broken. Sometimes I just don't get riot. There's a high risk of fucking up something that is healthy right now, and if they succeed the reward will be very minor because the champion is already healthy, unique and fun to play with and against.

Photos of GhostsJan 22, 20163 votes

Please, all Vel mains have complained since release that he was Lux/Xerath/Ziggs 1.4

Un MojonJan 22, 201614 votes

Yeah, I can see all the Vel mains rejoicing right now.

Oh wait, nobody is.

AlphadefJan 22, 201612 votes

I'd say let's wait and see what they do to him, but I know if your name isn't lee-sin once the change is out it isn't going back.

Chespin2013Jan 22, 20164 votes

or Riven

IcyPepperJan 22, 20163 votes

I was really looking forward to that "edge" mechanic... kind of like Renekton in terms of an "should you fuck with this champion right now" indicator.

Pointy RockJan 22, 201612 votes

Yeah. I was always under the assumption that Vel'Koz was always considered one of leagues more perfectly balanced champions.

ModCaptainMårvelousJan 22, 20169 votes

Uh.

Q, passive and playstyle aren't unique. He's a combo mage.

I agree that he should keep his identity as THE combo mage and make others different but the only really unique things about him are his Q's trajectory and his ult.

KalarepaJan 22, 201612 votes

It's hard to explain, but he just feels right. His kit is simple on paper, but it's really fluid and well made. Not every skill in this game needs to do 3 different things, not every champion needs minigames.

ModCaptainMårvelousJan 22, 20163 votes

Oh it definitely feels right and I think the slowly building destruction also feels great.

It's just not unique.