@Riot: STOP IT

chipndip1·Nov 14, 2018·34 votes·10,649 views

Stop trying to passively coerce people into taking non-marksmen into bot lane after you guys chickened out of the mid-season changes.

You guys had Irelia's spot light feature her in a bot lane play with a support.
You guys are on record saying "We expect Akali to go mid and occasionally flex bot/top".
Someone on the Reddit is on record telling people to try out the new Karma (whenever that finally makes it here) as a bot lane carry pick.
This preseason showcase has a bunch of random shit that ain't marksmen walking down bot lane together.

Can you guys...stop? Bot lane = marksman land. That's it. I ain't getting my hopes up that there will ever be any real diversity in the lane, thus opening up possibilities for overall team comps and strategies, because if that happened you guys would just buff marksmen again. Stop trying to shove diversity down our throats because it feels like shit when you make us throw it back up.

57 Comments

Frog goes mooNov 14, 201822 votes

Lol imagine being this afraid of not being able to force botlane into an only marksmen botlane. I remember that one patch where adcs had to learn to lane against something other than other adc's and started whining about it. Good times.

wolviusNov 14, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Lol imagine being this afraid of not being able to force botlane into an only marksmen botlane. I remember that one patch where adcs had to learn to lane against something other than other adc's and started whining about it. Good times.

Remember that time top laners complained about ranged toplaners Viktor Gnar Kennen ( Not saying they should ) The problem with that change was they made it so that bruisers, mordes etc could go bot lane which is fine and about time but champs like ashe, jinx and other marks~~men~~hu~~man~~person that can't go in no other lane were outperformed by champs that could go in multiple position. Swain was good in all three lanes for a while if i remember right.

AlzonNov 14, 20184 votes

Quinn Yes hello top tier in 4 roles earlier this season xd

wolviusNov 14, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Yes hello top tier in 4 roles earlier this season xd

Yeah she is totally a typical ADC, shes immobile like ashe and doesnt have "the fast" on an ult, a knockback enemy/leap back on E (cant remember which). Also beside earlier this season when was the last time you saw her botlane, correct me if im wrong she's one of the abominations designed for top-lane and their attempt at an assassin ADC.

chipndip1Nov 14, 201810 votes

Issue: If a marksman goes somewhere, people cry. If someone goes bot lane, marksmen cry. Who gets to expand if everyone's selfish? Just don't bother.

wolviusNov 14, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Issue: If a marksman goes somewhere, people cry. If someone goes bot lane, marksmen cry. Who gets to expand if everyone's selfish? Just don't bother.

Can't argue with that, Sadly it's hu~~man~~person nature(or is it physiology) to resist change even if it might be good.

Tarbal81Nov 15, 20183 votes

Stop trying to make the word "human" a dirty word. We are all human beings, male or female. If you have that much of an issue with it, just use the technical term for our species and call us homosapiens. It's vocabulary, not a political debate. This is a league of f**kin legends message board, leave your politics at the door.

And the word is marksman. The man is from human, it's not gender specific. Calm yourself. Please. You're distracting the adults.

wolviusNov 15, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Stop trying to make the word "human" a dirty word. We are all human beings, male or female. If you have that much of an issue with it, just use the technical term for our species and call us homosapiens. It's vocabulary, not a political debate. This is a league of f**kin legends message board, leave your politics at the door.

And the word is marksman. The man is from human, it's not gender specific. Calm yourself. Please. You're distracting the adults.

I'm not trying to make it seem like a filthy word, I'm poking fun at those that get triggered so easily by "cis" males and how everything should be gender neutral and how riot referred to marksmen as marksperson after articles about you know what at riot.

Real grown-up of you to get so agitated at humor

Le Epic CurtyNov 15, 20181 votes

As an ADC player, I loved the diversity in bot lane during the mid season patch. Shit like Brand and yasuo being in botlane was a blast.

Autrah FangNov 14, 201812 votes

{quoted}

marks~~men~~hu~~man~~person

How dare you. "Person" has the word "son" in it, how dare you use your sickening male-dominated vocabulary to generalize the class.

It should be "markspeople" in order to be truly inclusive. Even when you're using it in a singular tense. I don't care if it doesn't make sense grammatically! At least it doesn't use MAN, MEN, or SON in the word! /s

wolviusNov 14, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Broken Fangz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ftmvnIqk,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2018-11-14T23:13:32.672+0000)

How dare you. "Person" has the word "son" in it, how dare you use your sickening male-dominated vocabulary to generalize the class.

It should be "markspeople" in order to be truly inclusive. Even when you're using it in a singular tense. I don't care if it doesn't make sense grammatically! At least it doesn't use MAN, MEN, or SON in the word! /s

Oh please no "people" don't smite me, I can become better. I will rescind my aggressive hypermasculine ways. /s [slayer-jinx-wink]

KingcrustytutNov 15, 20182 votes

It’s cringey the levels you go to avoid using words like man, actually drawing attention to said words. Also super cringey looking, maybe just type words like a regular person.

KryterionNov 15, 20189 votes

{quoted}

It’s cringey the levels you go to avoid using words like man, actually drawing attention to said words. Also super cringey looking, maybe just type words like a regular person.

Whoosh

PR1NCE PUPPYNov 15, 20187 votes

But people has the word pope in it, which is male, so basically this whole conversation is screwed

Dr DogNov 15, 20182 votes

more like "remember that time playing a marksmen bot was basically trolling because they were guttered" id ont agree with this post but fucking over a class so badly that they arent playable just to get other stuff going there isnt diversity

IxtaliKingNov 14, 201810 votes

"Yeah we're not addressing Karma's solo lane issues at all... but you can now play her Bot as an APC!"

"Karma can now enable more mages in Bot lane!"

It's clear Riot hasn't learned much from the Mordekaiser and Skarner failings. Tragic.

Moody PNov 14, 20184 votes

Mordekaiser failed because of how they did it, not that they did it at all

AlzonNov 14, 20186 votes

Marksmen only... plus Siornn and Mordecrank ;)

wolviusNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Marksmen only... plus Siornn and Mordecrank ;)

and Siolean

Djinn72Nov 15, 20182 votes

And yaskench

Shinu made ikiruNov 15, 20186 votes

I don't get the issue here. I'm an ADC main and I'm fine with the non meta bot laners. I legit take adcs mid and JG and supports into JG because it's fun. This rant is stupid and you're complaining about it because you can't handle the pressure of non meta adcs

chipndip1Nov 15, 20183 votes

...?

The fact that you call them "non-meta adcs" unironically proves my point, and yet you don't realize it.

XLNC Jake KeltonNov 15, 20181 votes

Catennator, one of the guys on my stream I shoutcast, has successful carried his team with jungle Caitlyn, Kai'sa, and Draven. Looking forward to what he brings next!

JackMcSnipeyzNov 15, 20186 votes

No lane wants diversity. When mages go top, toplaners cry. When bruisers go mid, midlaner cry. When Mages go botlane, botlaners cry.

Lets face it, no lane wants diversity because when off lane meta gets popular, it's at the expense of the core "audience" for that lane, it also means something is wack in the balance.

You cant throw away 8 years of balance design out the window by simply tuning numbers, champions are DESIGNED around their lane, a marksmen is designed in mind in a duo lane, a fighter is designed in mind to solo lane, if you throw either to another lane they will either suck (most marksmen top for example) or they will be oppressive (swain before he was nerfed, irelia before marksmen reverts). Lane diversity and freedom will never happen, Riot can design off role picks for lane like kindred, ivern, quinn and yasuo, but you cant force entire class shifts without breaking core parts of the game.

Çarly Rae JepsenNov 15, 20181 votes

Yes

WailNov 15, 20185 votes

As a support main, the issue with having non-adc champs in bot is that some supports become not as relevant/good. Mainly champs like Janna and Lulu where they give shields and some sort of ad/attack buff.

Djinn72Nov 15, 20184 votes

Lmao another whiny adc main

CrozzNov 15, 20181 votes

Adc main "ew diversity" Jungle main "cool, even more diversity!"

Really sad

WonkoBonkoNov 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Adc main "ew diversity" Jungle main "cool, even more diversity!"

Really sad

The difference is jungle has been diverse for as long as any of us can remember. You could go an AD assassin one game, or go an AP based tank the next. Jungle as a role has just always been flexible, mainly because it has to be.

And while I don't disagree that bot should have more diverse picks, it is typically at the expense of most ADCs when those varied picks come into bot lane. Cause one patch ADCs could be in a perfectly fine place, then the next most of them are low to mid-tier picks that get outclassed because they buffed the numbers on a handful of mages and the meta at bot lane completely changes without any warning.

If ADC's were able to coexist with these new picks I doubt it would even be an issue, but instead, most of them just get beat out of their role and don't really have any other place to go so they just don't get picked.

chipndip1Nov 15, 20181 votes

SURE

Sunny DazeNov 15, 20183 votes

Someone lost to Heimer bot

Çarly Rae JepsenNov 15, 20181 votes

I'm still waiting for that hjarnam vs Uzi 1v1 on the donger.

MeshikiariNov 15, 20183 votes

Change is good said by kha zix but Irelia and Akali shoud not be bot I agree.

Bazi Delphine Nov 15, 20183 votes

Just stop complaining, if you can't handle a mage in botlane than it is your lack of skill/game knowledge....

Yuno 02Nov 15, 20182 votes

Ladies and gentlemens we have a salty Adc player. Bringing new things to the bot it's more fun and more effective then an Adc that can get 1 shot. Me and my friend tried on a rank game Ahri /Veigar bot and we won that lane so easily. I admit it it was on Silver 2 but the point it's try to play other roles then only one role. You can mainly play ADC but don't complain when in the bot lane are played Champs like Swain, Yasuo et.Btw if any marksman it's a bit laner how about gnar, urgot aren't they still adc?

chipndip1Nov 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yuno 02,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ftmvnIqk,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-11-15T10:11:21.511+0000)

Ladies and gentlemens we have a salty Adc player.

SURE

TchaikmateNov 15, 20182 votes

Lol, overreaction much?

THIRD EYE BARDNov 15, 20181 votes

seems like you’re complaining about nothing. or at least, you haven’t clearly taken a side so it’s not apparent what you’d rather have riot do

D005HB46Nov 15, 20181 votes

Sheeeeeeet, I remember when top was a dual lane and most of the jungle was something saved for later levels if you didn't want to die to it. There were no assigned lane roles. Times change. So does the meta. Deal with it.

UmioNov 15, 20181 votes

I just played a game with an EKKO APC in bot . . . the enemy team were complete tanks. No DPS to take them out, nor mortal reminder for the sustain they had.

Take the busNov 15, 20181 votes

Really weird the whole ADC image we have grown over the last few patches hasn't been the brightest. Yes- we haven't had diversity in so long. But that is the problem.

Mid has had several different things; from assassins to shields to tanks to bruisers.

Jungle changes meta awhole lot often too.

But ADC has been the same for 8 years. So when you suddenly implement a change wherein everything ADC turns to nothing; it's quite obvious people start to cry. I did too-

I'm an ADC main; but don't get me wrong here. I'd be happy if Rito did these changes at a more slower and steady pace. Rather than being the strongest on patch 8.11; to being the worst bunch of champions on 8.12.

Ah- also! Don't forget about the double support bot lane. ;0

RowGoNov 15, 20181 votes

Marksmen are never going to leave bot unless the class as a whole is Garbo, here's why.

For your team to draft a comp that has no form of dps that can shred though tanks or objectives is champ select suicide, and the champs that do dps the best (go figure) are marksmen. So if another class can do the ONE THING that marksman are known for, but better, than you just never take markmen. (Which is actually less diversity)

The way you go about fixing the problem of markmen always going bot Lane is by making them better elsewere. But they can't function well in a solo Lane since they are dps reliant meaning they only have one place to go which is the jungle. However itemization for marksmen in the jungle is garbage since any build path towards crit is awkward af, warriors is meant for casters and blood razor is only good if you have a heavy relience on AS.

I think if riot really wanna get more picks into botlane they should first look to make a better home for markmen in the jungle.

Çarly Rae JepsenNov 15, 20181 votes

I tried Caitlyn jungle with bloodrazor and bork like 2 years ago and it seemed decent. Yet again, we're talking about when infinity edge doubled your crit damage and crit builds were actually viable. item 1419 item 3153

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2364256378/230564886?tab=overview

I did terrible, but it was a win, so it all that matters.

CrozzNov 15, 20181 votes

Riot needs to push to decide diversity in bot lane or to not. ADC playsers are the most toxic of the main roles and they need to just decide if they want to ignore there crying or to listen to them. They want to only play with/VS only 5 meta picks. ADC mains hate bot lane diversity and dont want it open to more then 10 champs. Its sad but its true. On a side note if riot wants to give any other champs the ability to jungle, feel free to do so! Us junglers love diversity!

Darklord DemiseNov 15, 20181 votes

Uhm.. mid Lane was marksman lane. They changed that too.

God Tier LeonaNov 15, 20181 votes

Umm adcs can go jungle/top...if you just have to roles for specific lanes, then that's boring. Who wants to just have adc bot lane 24/7? That would be boring. League needs to have more versatile game strategy. I'm sorry but I disagree with this post.

BestHookerNAWNov 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Stop trying to passively coerce people into taking non-marksmen into bot lane after you guys chickened out of the mid-season changes.

You guys had Irelia's spot light feature her in a bot lane play with a support.

You guys are on record saying "We expect Akali to go mid and occasionally flex bot/top".

Someone on the Reddit is on record telling people to try out the new Karma (whenever that finally makes it here) as a bot lane carry pick.

This preseason showcase has a bunch of random shit that ain't marksmen walking down bot lane together.

Can you guys...stop? Bot lane = marksman land. That's it. I ain't getting my hopes up that there will ever be any real diversity in the lane, thus opening up possibilities for overall team comps and strategies, because if that happened you guys would just buff marksmen again. Stop trying to shove diversity down our throats because it feels like shit when you make us throw it back up.

You are wrong mate, the meta shouldn't even exist it structures the game too much causing people to get bored because it seems so repetitive. Is it a strategy that typically works, yes, but what riot is trying to do is promote diversity in how summoners play the game. Making it more competitive and fun. Now are there team comps and builds that are really situational dependent, yes, and could potentially lead to feeding if not wise, but that is all part of the game; to strategically out play the other team by adapting to in game situations.

chipndip1Nov 15, 20182 votes

...no.

I just don't care. Save the bullshit.

Edit: Lemme clarify before this sounds like a personal attack

I WOULD LOVE for actual diversity to exist in this game. Not just some one-off gimmick, but actual diversity in team comps and strategies. This is a competitive game. When EVERY competitive match looks like different flavors of the same meta we've had for more than 5 years now, you can't come out telling me shit about "experimenting" or "trying something new". We had that and the community turned on it. I don't want to hear about it either directly or indirectly ever again unless Riot has the balls to stick with it. If they don't, then stop trying to passively push the idea back in. It's obnoxious. It's annoying. It's unnecessary.

ChinaTigerNov 15, 20181 votes

Every season and every year, riot just intentionally make the game focus on different lane. Last year, they focus on Ad carry, but the bot champion composition is only made of these particular champions who can make advantages of that red item which gives them insane attack speed. In order to give audience different watching experience, riot this year intentionally make the game focus on mid and ig. They fear to lose audience . They constantly change meta in order to balance the path but never and ever succeed.

GlacialShadeNov 15, 20181 votes

The problem in the bot lane now adays, is the burisers are able to tank the lvl 1 damage and kill you. The marksman era has come to a end, I played a match where pantheon and pyke ruled the bot lane bother able to one shot a champ by 10 mins.