Galio was a perfectly balanced champion sitting around 50% win rate the entirety of his existance. Sure, he had low pick rate but he was never a balance issue. He is now sitting at the same pick rate he had when he was reworked with a whopping 1.2% while rocking a 43% win rate. When he was reworked he had about a 51% win rate. Great rework. I rate it 0.5/10
The Ecdysiast14 votesOld Galio had his own issues. It'd not just about popularity.
It's just that new Galio has completely different issues. They gave him the same problem Ryze has, and didn't realize.
Sky Cardis3 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ftA7dEFM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-11T09:40:43.927+0000)
It's just that new Galio has completely different issues. They gave him the same problem Ryze has, and didn't realize.
Don't you mean, "didn't realryze"!
The Ecdysiast2 votes[{quoted}](name=Sky Cardis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ftA7dEFM,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-11T14:10:45.059+0000)
Don't you mean, "didn't realryze"!
no*[zombie-brand-clap]*
Teriyaki Bukkake2 votesWhat were the old issues though?
I played a lot of old galio, and found his kit to be pretty accurate to his identity, and it seemed alright balance wise
The Ecdysiast2 votes[{quoted}](name=Mr Meat,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ftA7dEFM,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-07-12T00:57:24.475+0000)
What were the old issues though?
I played a lot of old galio, and found his kit to be pretty accurate to his identity, and it seemed alright balance wise
What identity are you talking about? Being a statue? 'Cause in that sense none of it was accurate safe for the two seconds he stood still for his taunt.
Nielarken6 votesHim being an anti mage and assassin counter pick. Old Galio had so many different builds that he could play most roles. Only thing that was wrong with old galio was that he fell victim to the mobility creep.
The Ecdysiast2 votesHim being an anti mage and assassin counter pick. Old Galio had so many different builds that he could play most roles. Only thing that was wrong with old galio was that he fell victim to the mobility creep.
That wasn't old Galio. That was old builds.
Teriyaki Bukkake3 votesHis kit could be used incredibly well to benefit someone, whether that be by attacking the attackers dishing out very noticeable damage with his Q for a 50% slow, or by him protecting his target from being hit with 90 Armor and MR buff, or by the taunt. He then even had a speed buff for 50% bonus movespeed to either help him and his allies get away or engage. Basically, he was a Magically Enchanted golem that was effective at peeling one target, or engaging the enemy to set up fights.
Not only that, but his build had a lot of variety. He could go full damage because his ratios were decent, which also fed back into his tankiness with healing from his W, so he could off tank aswell with his passive + w. Or, he could build straight tank, because he had good utility in his kit, meaning he wasn't useless if he wasn't the carry.
He was everything a champ should be, minus the visual aspect of course. His role was not defined by his core items making him viable, he was viable because his kit was fair, and offered many styles of play, while also being counterable.
The Ecdysiast1 votesThat still wasn't his identity. Say what you will, but his lore never mentioned him doing anything of the sort.
Build variety is something a champion should not have. That was one of his problems. When you can build differently on the fly, you're too versatile without changing the amount of skill required.
So what we've got is that he was several things a champion shouldn't be, along with missing the one thing every champion should be: fun.
Teriyaki Bukkake2 votes"Say what you will, but his lore never mentioned him doing anything of the sort." The dude was literally a magical golem, created to defend all demacians, but was kept by his creator, Durand, to use Galio purely for his own use, unlike what had happened with all the other Golems. His life was dedicated to protecting his master at any cost. To say that wasn't his identity is to ignore the lore.
"Build variety is something a champion should not have." LOL
"Build variety is something a champion should not have. That was one of his problems. When you can build differently on the fly, you're too versatile without changing the amount of skill required." But you're straight up wrong. Galios build variety is what made him viable: he had many lane encounters that he hard lost because he was geared towards anti-mage with his passive, and team based fighting with his kit. He lost in lane often because he didn't have any DPS like most top laners do and did. This meant that his build variety allowed him to spontaneously be able to build whatever was necessary, and not be punished for building something outside his core.
Several things a champion shouldn't be? Flexible? Not reliant on itemisation? Fitting their role properly? Fun? Yeah who would want that. Who could possibly want a dynamic champion that can go sup, mid, and top, that can also build for damage, or build to tank.
DerMangoJoghurt12 votesIt's just personal opinion, but I much prefer his current version. I don't mind him being weaker, what matters to me is that he's more interesting to play.
Disulfiram9 votesHonestly, he's so different from his former self on every aspect that they could re-release his older kit and look with another name and newer players would never be able to tell.
It's fine that you like it - it's great, actually - but it would be nice if riot at least re-released his former self as a different champion.
Ralanr1 votesThey probably wouldn’t release the former kit with the same abilities. Like, I could see his old W on a new champion, but not his old ult.
Infernape3 votesThey probably wouldn’t release the former kit with the same abilities. Like, I could see his old W on a new champion, but not his old ult.
I couldn't see his old W coming back at all. One of Riot's reasons for getting rid of it is not knowing whether you deal enough damage to outdamage the heal, or whether you'd just end up healing him with your damage without doing anything.
All in all, it functioned like damage reduction really.
Ralanr1 votesIf that’s the case, what’s unique to old Galio that’s really worth bringing back? His Q and E were just basic skill shot spells, with his E having an MS effect.
AlienPrimate2 votesWhat other abilities do what his Q and E did though? The most similar things to his Q are Lux E and Gragas Q which both have a delay to them. As far as I know, his old Q is the only AoE projectile with a slow that doesn't require a detonation to ever be in the game. I am certain his E was the only ability of its kind to ever exist and the reworked it into a dash that knocks up (so original; Sejuani Q, Gragas E, Vi Q). His W and R were also very unique but I don't think anyone argues against those, hence the post. Every part of Galio's old kit was unique which made playing him a unique and enjoyable experience for people who liked him with nothing to fall back on when he was reworked.
Ralanr1 votesHis old Q is as you described, a Lux E without a detonator, which means it didn’t exactly have an interesting play pattern.
Arguably the most unique thing on Galio was his E which was a speed boost in the area after he throws a damaging projectile. The problem with that ability is that the MS was under utilized since he had to stop to cast it while every other speed boost had no problems.
AlienPrimate3 votesI just don't understand how simplicity is a bad thing. Not everything has to have a 2 paragraph ability description. I find an ability that says "does x damage and slows x %" to be much more appealing than "does x damage that is increased by x% after hitting target with x ability if x ability is rank 3 or higher also adds the effect of doing x% max hp true damage and slows by x% which is instead a root if target has been damaged by x number of allies in the past x seconds."
Ralanr2 votesIt isn’t a bad thing, and I wasn’t arguing that Galio’s Q being simple was a bad thing. I was arguing that it wasn’t unique. I prefer Galio’s new Q to it, even if I have trouble getting the max damage out of it most of the time.
I get people want reverts to old abilities, but a lot of people don’t understand or simply don’t care about why those abilities were changed. Old Galio was a Melee champion that had no reason to get into Melee except for his ult, and had no way of really delivering on his ult outside of flashing in.
New Galio has a lot of problems, but he still has a play pattern that not only encourages going in, but rewards it. I’d personally rather see him being built as a tank rather than an AP bruiser, but if there’s a way to bring him back to mid so I can taunt and smash people again I’ll be happy.
Galiö1 votesIt functioned with damage reduction, that can be enhanced or mitigated with itemization. Incentivized Galio to build an MR Item (spirit visage) and had diminishing returns (the more hits you took the less you healed.
It would be fair on the new Galio as long as it didnt provide the +90 Armor and MR the old one did.
LordGeovanni2 votesThats excatly what infight healing is Restoring health to negate some of what was done. Aka reducing the total amount of damage effectively done to your health bar do you can stay in the fight. Lifesteal works the same way.
ihateyouallmuted3 votesIm a huge fan of new galio kit, but they can give him more power budget if they just didn't allow you to flash during taunt - his old ult activated instantaneously and he did the same thing, just flash then taun, but if you want that play amumu. Taunt's ability to zone and control is thematically and mechanically perfect for Galio. He shouldn't be tooled as some AP assassin mage, like they keep buffing him to be and having to nerf.
Give him back his reduced mana costs and keep the damage moderate, remove flash taunt capability and throw back into his budget where it matters: defense or sustain, which is what his old W used to give him. people hate this galio because it's inexplicably squishy despite the guise of some anti mage tank, mages can still poke you out of lane no problem lmao.
Sebastit7d1 votesIt's just personal opinion, but I much prefer his current version. I don't mind him being weaker, what matters to me is that he's more interesting to play.
The problem is that even if his kit is more interactive, due to pro play abuse, he has gotten his kneecaps broken with Riot's balance bat so now anyone under D1 trying to play him will have to deal with him being extremely weak. I am a big fan of both versions of galio and would have been fine if they had given him his dash but kept the ult the same, as he used to be just flash R...
SEKAI9 votesHe was a champion that no one played barring some really hardcore 1tricks. And even then he sat at 50% win rate.
That means the champion was UNDERPOWERED, not balanced. Because low play rate is supposed to have high win rate, since that's what happens when no one but 1tricks play them and the sample pool of matches played is tiny.
And the fact no one played him is a huge red flag signifying a combination of design and balance problem.
Just because the new Galio has his own set of issues, it doesn't mean the old Galio didn't have his bullshit too.
AlienPrimate1 votesGalio one tricks actually hurt his win rate. I mained him before his rework but there were some matchups you just don't want to pick him into. Picking him 100% of the time regardless of matchup hurt his overall win rate. I also wouldn't ever say that 51% win rate is underpowered. That would be in probably the top 20 champions during most patches.
SEKAI7 votesGalio one tricks actually hurt his win rate. I mained him before his rework but there were some matchups you just don't want to pick him into. Picking him 100% of the time regardless of matchup hurt his overall win rate. I also wouldn't ever say that 51% win rate is underpowered. That would be in probably the top 20 champions during most patches.
1tricks are people who pick the same pocket champ regardless of matchups. They made their living by winning games with their pocket pick regardless of matchup.
Not to mention, with how tiny (and by extension, dedicated) the player base of the old Galio was, his win rate would probably hover at least 55%-60% if he's played properly, and even when let's assume he was ONLY 1-tricked it should still be higher than 52% or so. The fact he sat at 50% even at the hands of his hardcore players means that the champ was dog shit, from a combination of design and balance issues.
What's more, balance is not just a win rate thing. Old Galio still had his own set of design issues that led to him being gutted to that state in the first place. This includes, but not limited to, his obscure and almost meaningless E and his extreme reliance on Flash-ulti to do just about anything outside of laning.
AlienPrimate4 votesI'm not going to argue statistics, but saying his E was meaningless or that he relied on flash is just dumb. His E was basically a mini Kled ult that also had the unique ability to manipulate minion waves by speeding up allied minions. His E also helped set up his ult. He could never get those amazing 3-5 man game changing ults without flash but just using E and catching 2 people in it was plenty effective. Look at how many champions still rely on flash to make things happen and still work just fine. Taric uses it to setup stuns all the time, Annie leads her ult with it all the time, Lee Sin uses it to get behind people before ulting, Shen uses it to flash taunt, Gragas uses it to flash body slam, Volibear, Singed, and Udyr use it frequently to catch out a single target, and many more. How is it a problem that Galio was better by leading his ult with flash? Almost the entire roster is better by leading with flash.
Teriyaki Bukkake3 votesHow in the hell are people downvoting you but upvoting SEKAI... Everything you've said so far is pretty correct.
Besides, he wasn't underpowered at all! https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Galio/History#1st His old kit offered high base damages, with moderate ratios, movespeed buffs and 90Mr+arm buff that healed him, a strong slow, and a game winning ulti.
But saying he absolutely RELIED on flash is downright false guys. I even think with some of the current items available, old galio would have been very viable in the current meta, which is sad considering current galio has been trashed on.
Galiö1 votesHe was wrong anyway old Galio sat around 53-54% winrate.
boricCentaur18 votesThe only problem with the galio rework is that riot keeps trying to balance him to be ap when it doesn't work. When tank galio was the norm he was balanced.
Also having basically no playrate SHOWS A BALANCE PROBLEM WTF.
boricCentaur11 votesHe was deal with it. He could be buffed and nerfed with breaking or killing him, had more consistent player count. The fact the there was basically no buffs or nerfs to him in the summer until riot make him a ap burst mage,he could be played top and mid, being a tank makes more sense with the champion, is more fun to fight.
Like I can remember galio in the summer of season 7 there were tanks that were better then him but he was not bad. Love when people say something with no proof.
D357R0Y3R1 votesI don't have to deal with it, anyone with memory and with elo above d1 would have remembered how bullshit he was basically above d1 he was 100% picked/banned
he went top, autowon lane against all melees with high base armor as an anti mage, and high base hp regen with little mana cost, tankiness, mobility, cc, and ranged spells? how was that balanced?
there is a reason he got olafed
galio as a design, tank or mage, or assassin, or support, is always broken and requieres nerfs
his rework was S H I T and solcrushed left the design team thank god
boricCentaur12 votesWOW NO PROOF OR ANYTHING TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS WOW. Even when your claims make NO SENSE. 1:Galio top was not the most played top and galio was more of a mid not a top MEANING NO HE WAS NOT AUTO WIN YOU'RE JUST LYING. 2: it sounds like you played ONE game vs galio on release AND NEVER AGAIN. Riot nerfed his armor that is why I said the galio in summer of season 7 unless you think galio has high armor now which is doesn't.
But you know what GALIO NEVER HAD HIGH ARMOR THE MOST IT HAS EVER BEEN IS 27 lower basically every tank in the game. Talk about bs.
Like I can go basically to every point you made and prove it's wrong and unlike you show PROOF.
D357R0Y3R1 votesMy proof is that Galio got nerfed, everyone thinking that he was balanced have no memory at all throughout the entire season 7 Galio was S tier until riot gutted him and tried to balance him as an ap champion in season 8 even the dude below said it
Riot nerfed his base armor
Yes because it was broken
now what's your proof of him being balanced? Him getting picked 24/7 in high elo and pro play is the uncontestable proof, that YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT not me
Nanuk Pihoqahiak2 votesLol @ him being balanced when he was a tank. Let's just jump back to when he was pick or ban for entire seasons in LCS and nerfed for 99 percent of players repeatedly because of it.
DuskDaUmbreon6 votesHe wasn't a balance issue because he wasn't fucking picked.
It's hard to be a balance issue when there are more people born in Antarctica daily than people who play you. You can't be a balance issue when two people having bad luck drops your winrate by 5%.
FSRER1 votesOld Galio was a nuke. He was extremely strong but not picked. Same went for old Swain, Urgot and at least for my low platinum adventures, so was old Yorick
HorseProofBacon4 votesGalio used to have a useful (albeit easily interrupted) ult that if timed right, could devastate an entire team. Now his ult is only semi-useful in SR, situational at best, and requires coordination with a team to actually connect...which means most of the time it ends up just being a poor mans TF ult. In ARAM, it's completely useless (like Ryze's ult). The old galio was far superior.
Caitlyn FTW3 votes[deleted]
AlienPrimate5 votesThis is why I want his W and R reverted. With his R reverted he would no longer be an issue in pro play and could actually be balanced again instead of being hot garbage.
Pika Fox3 votesWhy would they ever do that? His old kit was dogshit.
Baron Barian2 votesI miss when I was rewarded for building tank on him instead of making him a standard mage mid laner. Who doesn't like sharing the armor and MR with your ult target?
Support Position2 votesHe just needs to be completely reverted and VGU'd he looks awful sounds awful... And now he is awful .-.
BackdoorPrincess1 votesI really liked olf Galio, but lets be honest, the only time I liked him was running him as support against an immobile botlane for easy flash r's, or against a dot midlaner with the old rune page system, so I could start level 1 with 105 mr and stack abyssals and banshees. New Galio feels like an actual champ instead of a cheesemaker, but his ult still feels really dumb for not really giving whomever he ults any kind of damage resistance/shield, resulting in most galio's only putting 1 point into it until significantly later as the cdr on e or w is more important than hey I can maybe help my jungler out after like 4 minutes of waiting if I don't get interrupted or fucked up during the chargeup on it.
Like yeah I like being a CC machine, but all the changes to the ult really just make me feel like they should just give him a new ult, or allow it to be like pantheons where he can just target but maybe at a shorter range, or maybe even a reverse kai-sa where you can ult enemies that have recently damaged a teammate/you. Anyone who has a passive/ult that requires a different person feels like a massive hindrance, Shen has the ability to be almost completely global but he also gives the shield on cast instead of arrival, Leona's passive is great in bot lane but means that she just loses out on that part of her kit if she tries to lane or jungle.
Possible changes are making it not unit targetable but ground, making it have more/less charge time based on distance traveled, making it self-castable, etc. As of right now the only time you really want him is a protect the kog comp vs divers, but even then you have to make it through lane against tahm/urg/illaoi/ranged, and relying on jungle help isn't really a viable option
LordGeovanni1 votesThey especially dont want an instant cast aoe taunt to screw with mages and adc' despite that they can just build a decent team comp.