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What is the point of ranked when you get matched by MMR anyways?

AlienPrimate··83 votes·9,539 views

Let me start by saying this is not a salt post about the ranked system. I am fine with my placement because I know I will climb easily enough. It is a simple question. Why does the system place me in Silver 3 after going 8-2 in placements and then match me with high gold and low platinum anyways? What is the point of having ranked when the system doesn't even recognize someone's rank when placing them in a ranked game? It seems the only thing they look at when selecting teams is MMR and rank is totally irrelevant.

Here is a list of rankings I have been matched with in my past 4 ranked games. Note that I am currently silver 1.

Silver 1: 1 Gold 5: 3 Gold 4: 2 Gold 3: 8 Gold 2: 12 Gold 1: 5 Plat 5: 4 Plat 4: 1

If the game matches games based only on MMR and rank is so meaningless then why not just remove ranked and tell everyone their MMR?

Edit: I just did some math and according to that, my MMR places me at gold 3 with 75 ladder points.

1x1/36+2x3/36+3x2/36+4x8/36+5x12/36+6x5/36+7x4/36+8x1/36 = 4.75

This is also what https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=AlienPrimate places me at.

Edit 2: I went duo with someone else who was in silver 2 and started getting matched with high silver/low gold. I was still getting 27-28 LP for wins and losing 13-14 for losses. This means that it makes absolutely no difference who you are matched with for how much LP you gain or lose.

90 Comments

DrCyanide19 votes

My gripe with it is that you can play against people you wouldn't be allowed to play with if you were creating a party.

If your MMR is on par with those Plats, why can't you queue up with them after the game? Either the rules for the lobby should be changed to be based on MMR, or match making should look at Rank as a cut off for who you can be paired with.

Randomonium15 votes

Yep, in my promos to gold 5 I was facing mostly high gold and low plat. Apparently if I can't beat a plat 5 player I don't deserve gold 5.

Glory ln Death11 votes

If you weren't beating Diamond players to get into gold, you got boosted. /s

RainbowIcee4 votes

Doesnt that mean said diamond player is boosted?

Glory ln Death4 votes

Exactly.

dominusx2 votes

be happy you match higher tiers its only positive for you. -You get better -Get more lp -Lose less lp -Makes your mmr go through the roof.

Randomonium3 votes

For the most part I agree with you but that's not the case when you're in your promos. In your promos it's just frustrating because you have have to win 3 out of 5 against much higher ranked players. Why should someone have to beat plat players 3 out of 5 games just to get into gold 5? It's just a sign of a really bad system. Your MMR should be your rank. No need for this fake divisions and promo system.

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

So true. Here i am sitting winning three games in a row and my teammates get worse and worse up until i have a plat 4 jungler thanks to this god forsaken duo Q. I wish i would get matched with higher tiers. Just look at my last 4 games. First only diamonds and a plat 1. Less diamonds and more plats, less diamonds and lower plats until the game with the plat 4 and 3. The more you win the worse the teams get. Nice logic rito.

RoddyMcFly1 votes

{quoted}

So true. Here i am sitting winning three games in a row and my teammates get worse and worse up until i have a plat 4 jungler thanks to this god forsaken duo Q. I wish i would get matched with higher tiers. Just look at my last 4 games. First only diamonds and a plat 1. Less diamonds and more plats, less diamonds and lower plats until the game with the plat 4 and 3. The more you win the worse the teams get. Nice logic rito.

Facts lol

SlaktarTasken1 votes

Yeah, makes your MMR go through the roof but not your rank, so it's still dumb as fuck.

DevlinCrow4 votes

Your LP gain/loss is different when facing higher ranks. If you lose to Plats you don't lose as much LP, if you win you get a shit ton.

AlienPrimate6 votes

This is why I said it's not a salt post and I know I will easily climb. I've been getting +27 and -14 for my games. The point is, why didn't it just place me higher to begin with instead of deciding that I belong in high gold after placing me in silver?

Sandrahy1 votes

I believe it was because of last season and their Dynamic queue error.

Basically I seen a good amount of players go from gold to bronze this season... (like actually) And that says a lot.

I'm pretty sure you won't have an issue climbing, but placements were really messed up this season.. [zombie-nunu-bummed] (A few of my plat friends got placed high silver and low-mid gold etc).

Wimbledofy1 votes

placements weren't messed up, the highest you can get placed is plat 1 which is basically for challenger players. Silver- Low-mid gold is completely normal for being plat the previous season.

Sandrahy1 votes

Yes, but not for a mid-high plat player to get placed in high silver lol.

I am fully aware of the fact going from plat to gold is normal. But wouldn't you feel it's would be quite unfair if you went from mid gold to bronze?

I mean, I was happy I got placed silver 1 when I went 5/5 and not lower :V

Hyrum Graff1 votes

I went 6-4 and got placed from g2, 100lp to g3, lol.

Sandrahy1 votes

[zombie-brand-mindblown] What? What does it mean? Lux

Hyrum Graff1 votes

I hadn't played a ton of ranked and my rank hadn't caught up to me mmr :P

TheSingularity2 votes

LP doesn't mean much if you vs them in promos and get stomped. I shouldn't of had to rely on 2 free wins to get me out of silver. It felt cheap and like I didn't deserve the promotion. Hell I probs still don't deserve that promotion.

AlienPrimate1 votes

I went duo with someone else who was in silver 2 and started getting matched with high silver/low gold like I should be. I was still getting 27-28 LP for wins and losing 13-14 for losses. This means that it makes absolutely no difference who you are matched with for how much LP you gain or lose.

TwoFingrPeekaboo3 votes

A number alone is harder to visualize than a solid rank. Think Overwatch, all you get is a number and that number is assigned to a rank they give you. I think League does it better personally.

Gelmous3 votes

what's the point of a video game if you get stressed instead of having fun

idontgiveabother3 votes

I had a game where a silver 4, new to ranked (first season) and there was a plat 5 on the other team. I was gold 3 .-.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

Not to diminish your pain but this is nothing.

Last season I consistently had game where I was expected to carry teams on avarage a full league above my own in rank. Sometimes I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I was scoping that shit on op.gg.

But one game that completely pushed me over the edge was back in S6 where I was gold 3 up against a full low to mid plat team with 1 low gold and bunch of silvers and 1 plat player with a sub 45% winrate on my team. I was myself rocking a pretty high winrate , but honestly, considering the matchup one could have sworn to God I was in my diamond promos. That shit was straight up fucking unfair jst as being 290/230 win-loss while other people are 100/120 yet they outrank you despite you playing against the same playerpool is fucking unfair and discouraging as fuck.

It's just no fucking fun.

As if the matchup wasn't bad enough. The opposing team had an experienced premade as well and not only that, they were the highest ranking and best performing on their team as well yet both of them outranked me by a full league. How the fuck does one carry silvers against plats? It just doesn't fucking happen unless you're masters, but if one is having this kind of match, then why the fuck is one still in gold?

That's when I realised I hate ranked and haven't touched it since then.

Rigged or not, broken or not, I don't really care anymore, ranked is cancer shit and if endless "bad luck" is all I'm gonna get there, Riot can forking keep it.

idontgiveabother1 votes

I have a friend who gets carried, feeds and does troll builds in about 1/2-2/3 of his game. He's my same rank, gold 3. I don't want to sound like im tooting my own horn here but I do a shit ton better but oh well. Guess its the way it works.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

I feel ya, it's completely ridiculous. Some consistently get carried, getting solid teams repeatedly that cover up their personall lackings, some have to carry practically every game or will lose by default since their teams are never on par with their opponents, yet for some reason we can all still be the same rank.

I've faceroll tons of plat players, sometimes I've even facerolled platinum teams with considerably lower ranked teammembers, every time it's made me wonder why any of us even had bagdes to begin with since they definately didn't seem to represent our individual levels of skill.

I've played with silvers that literally seemed to belong in diamond or at the very least high plat (I will admit they were considerably better than me) with great communication and even better skills, yet they were miraculously stuck in silver while I was in gold.

Something is just straight up rotten about ranked and it isn't working as intended, or maybe it is?

Regardless, a ranking system that depends mostly on the mercy of and luck in matchmaking for rank progression is one I will never respect and don't intend to waste any more time on. A matchmaking that forces you to grind hundreds if not thousands of games to cover up for "variance" when you get shafted by it and oh lord how one can get shafted endlessly, just isn't worth it.

If you got the patience for it, cudos to you brotha.

idontgiveabother1 votes

It is quite the unfortunate system. I had a streak of about 50ish games where I went from gold 5 all the way to gold 2. Then a week later gold 1. I wasn't even playing that well, I didn't know as much as I do now and this was all a few weeks ago. Its weird how I am trying to actually learn the game now but im stuck compared to not and getting a free pass. The system really feels like its based off of luck.

Which lane will die 5 times in the first 6 or 7 minutes? Which jungler has consistent pressure and doesn't try and do ridiculous invades? Will your team cooperate with you and try and win the game? Will you have toxic people? Will your team let the person thats stupidly fed carry or insist on getting caught over and over? And so many more factors that are completely out of your control. I know there are plenty you do control, but thats why I am saying it feels a lot like its luck based. Sometimes I think im silver, sometimes I think im diamond. Sometimes its like playing with a team of monkeys. Sometimes its like playing with SKT. I would probably be better rolling the dice and seeing what happens.

JogadorJNC1 votes

I can confirm this, my urgot troll account (where I only play urgot, and im terrible at it) is the same rank as my main account.

Unironic SJW3 votes

Get rid of LP and Divisions entirely, or at least have discrete MMR brackets for divisions (X5 is the bottom 20%, X1 is the top 20% of that league)

hiding Elo behind the "league" system causes more probs than it solves.

Unload On Me3 votes

That's why i get so discouraged from playing only ranked. It's too much of a grind, if you're not in the top 10%. Diamond 1+ players don't really experience a grind since they basically start out in plat 1 no matter what and even if they didn't it's not like them going on win streaks is going to force them to play against people with a lot more skill. It's a grind because people who belong in plat, gold, or silver are going against people in whole other divisions if they start playing well. Bronze should be able to beat bronze to get into silver, not golds or silvers. Golds should be able to beat golds to get into plat, not plats or diamonds, etc.

Leon Etoile3 votes

It's not about who you get placed against but who you get stuck with going up against them.

My promos last year into gold had me matches with me and low silvers vs mid gold to low plat players... Before you can leverage your advantage the other team has already stomped your team into oblivion (i.e. you team has someone dying at least once a min).

Even pros (Febiven said this last year as an example) say ranked is a crapshoot that is determined by how teams are divided in regards to climbing.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

I can attest to this mechanic, I recall just about every plat promo I've ever had, having me paired with high silvers, low golds, going against full platinum teams with an occational high gold in their ranks, if there was ever a plat player on my team, which was rarely it was generally a low winrate plat 5 on a losing streak. I've also experienced the same scenario as yours for just about every gold promo.

So how exacly does one carry silvers against plats without being much better than plat to begin with?

Something about ranked is utterly broken, or if not it's rigged. Regardless, I think ranked stinks, so I don't bother with it no more.

Leon Etoile1 votes

Yea, I haven't played much this season. My last game literally had two low silver players (4 and 5) with some having sub 50% win rates vs a majority team of gold players (3).

It's like I understand why I'm getting matched against them (they current gold and former plats) but why in the hell are my team members getting matched against them??

Ward Baron2 votes

Here I got a better one for you. Everyone at placements is supposed to start at the same baseline MMR correct? Then how on earth did my friend only win 3 of his 10 placement games this season with a terrible KDA and be placed gold V.

We both found it funny. https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Black+pantheon

This would never happen to anyone on a new account with this performance.

Sammystorm1 votes

That's just not how the system works. The reset moved everyone closer together but doesn't assign people the same baseline mmr. I forget the formula but basically it takes your mmr and moves it closer to 1200. The further away from 1200 the further it moves you. So someone at 2000 mmr might go to like 1500 mmr and someone with 1400 much go to like 1300 so now you have a plat and silver playing together in promos. On the other end of the spectrum you might have someone at 400 mmr go to 900 and someone at 1000 go to 1100.

With mmr who you play with and against matters the most. Basically the game gives yo odds on winning based on your team's total mmr vrs the other team's total mmr. If you oh off upsets you get more mmr. If you lose to worse team's you lose more mmr.

Anyways that is the basics It.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Formula should be: Last season MMR+1200/2 Like mine was 2100 if i'm not mistaken (dia 5) would be 1650 and around plat 5 which i was placed.

Kaioko2 votes

It actually used to be solely determined by MMR in the early seasons and it was just absolutely awful. You had no feeling of satisfaction of clarity with how you would move up and getting demoted was just way too easy.

The current system isn't ideal but it is definitely much better and feels more rewarding.

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

I feel the exact opposite. As if my elo isn't already hell enough i don't see why i have to grind 15 games per division thanks to this fucked up promo system just to finally rank up and then get mixed with lower players anyways

Sraeg20132 votes

So you can feel a sense of accomplishment competing against your friends with whom you will never be in the same League and dozens of nameless randoms with whom you will never play either.

It's a satire on my part, but that is a TL;DR of the excuse Riot used in 2013 when Ranked was changed from ELO system to Ladders with MMR (which is a fancy way of spelling "ELO").

Zerenza2 votes

Well the reason we have MMR as the basis for who you'd be matched with is because of this.

Say your a plat player on a new account, you start in bronze-silver or so despite how your placements went because new player's are always placed in bronze or silver never higher. So as a platinum player, you dominate the low ELO of bronze, well it would kind of suck for everyone else if they kept being placed against someone who SHOULD be platinum. So let's say you play several games and have an MMR of low platinum, now you'll be placed with platinum players and if you win those matches, you can skip up the ladder MUCH faster than normal, skipping from bronze 5-1 is entirely plausible. This makes it so that smurfs and really good player's can get out of games with newer player's faster, therefore making it less likely to make a game unbalanced in low ELO.

Without MMR every game would give 20-25 LP randomly, making each person have to play atleast 7-8 games in each division, with MMR it's possible to get anywhere from 20-50 LP based on the MMR of the other's you've been fighting against. making it so each person only has to play 5-7 games and doesn't have to go to each division and can skip up several to get where they should be faster.

PS: Skipping works by, i believe, being 200 MMR or more above your current division and passing your promos, you'll skip 1 or more divisions.

LordBrasca2 votes

There is no point in divisions outside of end of season's rewards.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

I realised that just last year, that's why I no longer play ranked for any more reason than to get the championship rewards, it's just not freaking worth it. Heck, this year I might just skip out on ranked entirely, I've managed so far without it anyway.

Bootlessly1 votes

I play at a low silver level in my games most of the time (Its an up and down struggle). But this season I went 8 wins and 2 losses in ranked and it placed me in bronze 5. Im okay with this since i never play ranked anyway, but what exactly happened to cause this?

Glory ln Death1 votes

It intentionally places you lower than you belong. My best guess is that it works that way partially because 10 games isn't enough to get a good estimate for you, and they'd rather place you too low and let you climb than place you too high and have you fall.

Bootlessly1 votes

yeah see i don't usually play ranked. just the placements to see if I've improved.

MysterQ2 votes

Well placements are just a waste of time they don't count for anything at my level.

FooDang1 votes

You can get matched by combined MMR and wait 2-10 minutes or you can get matched by rank and wait 5-20 minutes.

Its a double edged sword, personally I'd rather have faster queue times. I'm just trying to play the game and have fun.

MysterQ2 votes

Except I am mot having fun. I am bronze and losing lanes to high silver's. And my teammates are saying I suck.

I KNOW. I just want to play vs bronzes and have a chance to win and learn. It isn't encouraging to learn by losing every rankgame.

FooDang1 votes

Thats the problem. You're trying to learn in ranked games. Learn in norms test your skills in ranked.

I didnt play my first ranked game until after roughly 500 wins in norms. I've never been placed in bronze.

If your scared of silvers you're not ready for ranked games.

MysterQ1 votes

I can completely agree with that. And I want to play normals, but I am also a greedy poor kid who wants the free champion/skin for getting gold.

If I get GoldV I am done with ranked. And I feel like I could have fun again. But true season only lasts 11 months and I barely have time to play 2-3 games a week. That isn't a lot of time to try to get Gold, so I don't play normals at all which makes me sad. I am not trying out new champs and trying to learn them from nothing in ranked. But I am trying to improve in ranked, but my MMR is not making that easy to do.

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