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While the Poppy update is excellent from a visual/thematic standpoint...

Anonagon··8 votes·1,470 views

The kit design (mainly her new ultimate) shows a clear lack of understanding of what old Poppy players love about her. No matter where Poppy was played, no matter how she was built, old Poppy has a very clear playstyle and role which her new rework forgets - that of a diver. Poppy was always a selfish, offensively oriented character, and her new kit does a complete 180 and gives her a ranged harass, a way to stop enemy divers, and most egregiously, a disengage ultimate. I could understand her being an offensive tank or heavy fighter, a Jarvan or a Darius, but this? This is Maokai, this isn't Poppy.

Her new passive, which provides ranged harass or farming, could be easily justified as a way to give her ability to farm in lane. Her new W, which creates a dash-stopping wall, could be used as a way of keeping targets in range. But her ultimate is horrendous. On another character? Gold. But Poppy has always been a diver, an offensive fighter. She is a Retribution Paladin, not a Protection one, a punisher of the wicked, not a protector of the weak. Sadly, knowing Riot, the very fact that they've unveiled their plans shows its already too late to change this.

26 Comments

GetBoomedOn9 votes

Yeah old poppy was a shit character. The ult needed to go, it was toxic to the game like Tryndamere's ult. This game doesn't need more ults that have no outplay potential besides CC. Fuck what old poppy players wanted, this new ult is much better and less toxic.

BattleOxe3 votes

{quoted}

Yeah old poppy was a shit character. The ult needed to go, it was toxic to the game like Tryndamere's ult. This game doesn't need more ults that have no outplay potential besides CC. Fuck what old poppy players wanted, this new ult is much better and less toxic.

Same went for Sion. He was changed a lot, but is much better now

Wind Whistler2 votes

{quoted}

Same went for Sion. He was changed a lot, but is much better now

You don't see the problem. She and Sion both lost their identities. Why not just make a new champion? What if Riot decides that your favorite champion is toxic and completely changes their entire kit, VO, and visuals? Would you still think it's amazing?

BattleOxe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wind Whistler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fiiTNgAH,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-24T23:00:17.436+0000)

You don't see the problem. She and Sion both lost their identities. Why not just make a new champion? What if Riot decides that your favorite champion is toxic and completely changes their entire kit, VO, and visuals? Would you still think it's amazing?

Well, my favourite champion got changed just a few months ago, so there isn't much chance for that

Now ,seriously, I don't approve what RIOT did. I just say, shit happens. And there isn't much we can do about it

Wind Whistler1 votes

{quoted}

Well, my favourite champion got changed just a few months ago, so there isn't much chance for that

Now ,seriously, I don't approve what RIOT did. I just say, shit happens. And there isn't much we can do about it

What champion was that? Was it one of the Juggernauts?

BattleOxe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wind Whistler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fiiTNgAH,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-25T00:09:43.192+0000)

What champion was that? Was it one of the Juggernauts?

Nope. GP

Wind Whistler1 votes

{quoted}

Nope. GP

Gangplank kept a lot of things that made him Gangplank. His pistol and sword, his global ult, his facial hair, his lore and especially his oranges. The only thing I didn't like about the rework was that there was no traditional skin, as his new lines and voice was so different from what they originally were.

Sion, on the other hand, got a completely different kit, voice-over, visuals, and even his lore, to an extent. He could no longer go AP, AS, or AD, and his playstyle was completely different. They even changed his title. Yet, there was no traditional skin, so all traces of the old Sion are completely gone from the game for what I can assume to be forever.

Don't get me wrong, Gangplank's rework DID change him a lot, but no one, not even Poppy, can be compared to how much Sion was changed. The only similarities Old Sion and New Sion have now is that they both are undead, both carry axes, and both have infinitely stacking health.

BattleOxe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wind Whistler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fiiTNgAH,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-25T21:27:19.029+0000)

Gangplank kept a lot of things that made him Gangplank. His pistol and sword, his global ult, his facial hair, his lore and especially his oranges. The only thing I didn't like about the rework was that there was no traditional skin, as his new lines and voice was so different from what they originally were.

Sion, on the other hand, got a completely different kit, voice-over, visuals, and even his lore, to an extent. He could no longer go AP, AS, or AD, and his playstyle was completely different. They even changed his title. Yet, there was no traditional skin, so all traces of the old Sion are completely gone from the game for what I can assume to be forever.

Don't get me wrong, Gangplank's rework DID change him a lot, but no one, not even Poppy, can be compared to how much Sion was changed. The only similarities Old Sion and New Sion have now is that they both are undead, both carry axes, and both have infinitely stacking health.

I know this. If you ask me, three biggest gameplay reworks would be Sion, Poppy and Mordekaiser

Wind Whistler1 votes

{quoted}

I know this. If you ask me, three biggest gameplay reworks would be Sion, Poppy and Mordekaiser

I disagree. Mordekaiser kept his R and E and his W is similar to his old one. The thing that got changed the most for him was his Q, and even then they're still both on-hit abilities.

Poppy is definitely far ahead of Mordekaiser in terms of how big their reworks are, because she's losing everything except her E, which is staying completely the same.

Sion, on the other hand, lost EVERYTHING except for his infinite health stacking.

BattleOxe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wind Whistler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fiiTNgAH,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-28T06:02:46.508+0000)

I disagree. Mordekaiser kept his R and E and his W is similar to his old one. The thing that got changed the most for him was his Q, and even then they're still both on-hit abilities.

Poppy is definitely far ahead of Mordekaiser in terms of how big their reworks are, because she's losing everything except her E, which is staying completely the same.

Sion, on the other hand, lost EVERYTHING except for his infinite health stacking.

I agree mordekaiser kept a lot of spells, but his gameplay changed completly. he went from AOE DMG mage, to fighter

Wind Whistler1 votes

{quoted}

I agree mordekaiser kept a lot of spells, but his gameplay changed completly. he went from AOE DMG mage, to fighter

I guess that's true. But then again, Sion and Poppy's gameplay changed just as much. Sion got changed from an auto attack based unkillable melee carry, to a CC tank. Poppy? I'm not sure what the hell she was, but the rework definitely changed her gameplay.

BattleOxe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wind Whistler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fiiTNgAH,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:12:43.173+0000)

I guess that's true. But then again, Sion and Poppy's gameplay changed just as much. Sion got changed from an auto attack based unkillable melee carry, to a CC tank. Poppy? I'm not sure what the hell she was, but the rework definitely changed her gameplay.

There was AP sion too!

Blade of Justic2 votes

{quoted}

Same went for Sion. He was changed a lot, but is much better weaker but more manageable now

Fix'd

Anonagon6 votes

{quoted}

Yeah old poppy was a shit character. The ult needed to go, it was toxic to the game like Tryndamere's ult. This game doesn't need more ults that have no outplay potential besides CC. Fuck what old poppy players wanted, this new ult is much better and less toxic.

I was never defending the old ultimate. I am well aware it needed to go. However, this is like replacing Fizz's trollpoll with a spell that says "heal ally for X damage!" - it completely goes against the established character's playstyle.

Markus Vakarian1 votes

you just watch the ulti?? you know that for that ulti Poppy has(had) below average base stats (except armor and AD),has no sustain,no harass,and weaker early in the game?? Now the ulti is gone,passive is gone,and she has even less armor,less AS,less damage on Q and E

Wind Whistler3 votes

As someone who played Sion quite a bit before his removal rework, I definitely feel your pain. I'm going to miss Poppy.

phood3 votes

Her ult did need to go, but I completely agree that her assassin playstyle was just erased and turned into the Janna of tanks... the hell? All of my dive is gone, all of her damage is gone, all she has now is the ultimate peel and anti assassin stuff

QuincyMcCoy3 votes

They unveiled her direction a long time ago, when they said they would be making her into more of a tank to fit her thematic.

In addition, they've also claimed many times that the old poppy was feast or famine to the point where it depended on how bad her laning phase went. Old poppy had no tuning levers, it was either useless or completely overpowering, simply due to the nature of her skills.

So yes, they completely changed poppy into the identity that they set out for her. They went around her old passive, making her seem unbeatable when low on HP, and centered her new gameplay identity around that and her themeatics. Was she better before? Depends on your opinion and that alone. Is she more balanceable and more game-friendly? Yes. Can she now be tuned a lot better instead of being KILL EVERYTHING or USELESS? Yes.

Also, kinda really excited that poppy doesn't have a terrible lane phase anymore :S

Markus Vakarian1 votes

what make you think she has not a bad lane anymore?? still no real wave clear,no sustain Only 1 ranged attack every 18s that can't be reset.....make it 10s from lvl 1 and could be ok

Kouga3 votes

Problem is that "old Poppy players" loved a play pattern that was unhealthy and unsustainable.

Her old ultimate was just bad - I mean it was strong as fuck, but it was bad.

You want a diver? She still has the ability to charge an enemy into a wall, being able to stop dashes around her is exactly what makes her a strong diver since it can completely negate their ability to flee. And instead of looking at her Ultimate as a disengage tool, look at it as an isolation tool. "I'm going to dive you now. Oh, you have a tank? That's cute."

I don't think the idea is for her to Ult her target, but rather use it to isolate her target. It has a similar potential/role as her current ult (ignore everyone else) but it is done a way that is much less caustic.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

dunno, depending on the game i used the old poppy a lot to protect my team by peeling or just drawing fire... i´d be more than happy though if they´d add ap-ratios to the rework to make a squishy assassin-poppy still possible (sth like hiding in the brush to strike with a 2.0ap ratio on a fully charged hammer would make a hilarious off-build).

GetBoomedOn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fiiTNgAH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-24T22:18:40.402+0000)

dunno, depending on the game i used the old poppy a lot to protect my team by peeling or just drawing fire... i´d be more than happy though if they´d add ap-ratios to the rework to make a squishy assassin-poppy still possible (sth like hiding in the brush to strike with a 2.0ap ratio on a fully charged hammer would make a hilarious off-build).

Exactly. Nothing is gonna hurt poppy by adding AP ratios. It may be seen as some as a noob trap but it is what it is.

OmManiPadmeHum1 votes

{quoted}

The kit design (mainly her new ultimate) shows a clear lack of understanding of what old Poppy players love about her. No matter where Poppy was played, no matter how she was built, old Poppy has a very clear playstyle and role which her new rework forgets - that of a diver. Poppy was always a selfish, offensively oriented character, and her new kit does a complete 180 and gives her a ranged harass, a way to stop enemy divers, and most egregiously, a disengage ultimate. I could understand her being an offensive tank or heavy fighter, a Jarvan or a Darius, but this? This is Maokai, this isn't Poppy.

Her new passive, which provides ranged harass or farming, could be easily justified as a way to give her ability to farm in lane. Her new W, which creates a dash-stopping wall, could be used as a way of keeping targets in range. But her ultimate is horrendous. On another character? Gold. But Poppy has always been a diver, an offensive fighter. She is a Retribution Paladin, not a Protection one, a punisher of the wicked, not a protector of the weak. Sadly, knowing Riot, the very fact that they've unveiled their plans shows its already too late to change this.

I agree...her ult got worse. I am still trying to figure out a good time when I want to punt people half a map away in 1 direction. Its a worse Lee Sin ult. It's a WORSE Alistar W. lol. Just dumb. The way Riot can redeem themselves is making the ult so that you can punt them ANYWHERE. Doesn't need to be as far if thats a concern...but as a jungler, i'd rather have control over where I want the enemy to go with my ult rather than to safety. lol

CoolKnightST1 votes

Why only 8 downvotes, this post need "-100".

Wind Whistler2 votes

{quoted}

Why only 8 downvotes, this post need "-100".

Poppy hater confirmed.

Markus Vakarian1 votes

i suppose many of you didn't even try her. I did Many of you are wrong,even those ones that say that her damage is gone. It's less in TF when you hunt the carry but it's more in lane. just reach 6 and play close to a wall. If an enemy comes,Ulti knock up...travel to swap postion. Qhen he lands use E to stun and Q (hit 2 times when enemy is stunned). Spike damage from 6. Also damage is easier to do in TF. Many times i used ulti to be immune to CC but carries justjumped away making me waste half the duration of my ulti (or even more,depending if they jumped over a wall or close to an ally). Now once Poppy reaches the target she has 2.5 of "escape silence". Don't use W to arrive to the target. Try to build a Youmuu/Dead Man or take Ghost as summoner spell

The problems are others.

  1. Her Q has a cast delay,very annoying
  2. when she's chasing an enemy and her passive goes up,she just stop and throw the shield making the chase fails (same problem in ganks)
  3. Her ulti is gone,passive (and tankyness) too but her base stats are not better than before except HP. AD is little more late but AS is worse and total DPS worse and since all abilities are based on bonus AD,that +5 final AD is useless. Also they didn't add something that helps farm. Riot did want her lane to be hard because of her late game TF with that ulti. But a pssive ability that gives 1 ranged attack every 18s and can be use OR for farm OR for harass,can't be enough.
  4. Mobility: -5 base movespeed and nerf to bonus speed of W. 10% faster but halved duration. Make it 20% faster and it's ok. And dd you see the CD???
  5. the shield on passive seems useless unless you get it instantly killing a minion. Try to harass a Darius from 525 range. you hit with on ebasic attack,and he will grab you and kill you
  6. Ultimate cooldwon? it's not a global ulti.....

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