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Quinn is now two years old. Also two years old? Quinn's bugs.

Anonagon··387 votes·32,955 views

After two years and numerous claims of having fixed some of her bugs, Riot has still not put a dent into the problems that keep Quinn from being a competitively viable champion. A month (well, 28 days) ago I put up a thread detailing her problems and what needs to be fixed. 28 days later, the thread has 110 upvotes and 134 comments. None of them are from Riot. It's baffling that her many bugs could go unnoticed and unfixed this long. It's painful as a Quinn main to see every new champion get bugfix galore the patch after release, when Quinn has got nothing. It's time Riot fixes her issues.

Here is a list of Quinn's bugs:

  • Enemy's first attack always ignores blind
  • Harrier is consumed if the target goes untargetable, but the particle still remains on the champion even after they are targetable again (also happens when blocked by wind wall [and I assume Unbreakable too])
  • Quinn's AAs can be cancelled even after they are in flight
  • E can kick off 90 degrees in the wrong direction if the enemy flashes or dashes away (I remember when Riot claimed they had "fixed" this. Still happens.)
  • E takes Quinn outside of her AA range, making her have to walk forward to attack her target
  • Harrier sometimes doesn't apply after E (yet another one that was "fixed")
  • E will sometimes "stun" Quinn, making her unable to move or attack (I've personally only experienced this when using it on Scuttle Crab)

And that's just her confirmed, easily noticeable, easy to recreate bugs. There are also reports of the following bugs happening:

  • Q during Tag Team will sometimes blind the user
  • E not kicking off at all or kicking off in melee range
  • Range for passive to apply is shorter than AA range
  • Q dying in midair if Quinn dies (many other skillshots do this so I think this is an overall Riot inconsistency thing, but if it does die in midair then I think Riot should standardize so it doesn't)
  • Being stuck in Valor form after ultimate ends
  • Many, many more that I either don't remember or am too lazy to go find right now

Quinn's issues aren't just bugs though. Her AA animations are the worst in her class when it comes to canceling and orbwalking (not counting Urgot here for obvious reasons). Skystrike's damage is at its highest when her enemies are dead. The cooldown of Tag Team starts when Skystrike is cast, rather than at the beginning of the duration, punishing Quinn for making use of her ultimate's potential 20 second duration. Her passive will often target minions who are already killable by a non-enhanced AA, or target minions who are in the middle of dying.

I honestly think no one is satisfied with Quinn as she is right now. Quinn mains are mad that she's buggy. Top laners hate that they still have to deal with her. Supports don't want to support her. If you pick her mid, your team is likely to get mad at your "troll pick". How can Riot be satisfied with Quinn in this state?

I'm not dumb enough to suggest Quinn get buffs without any sort of compensatory nerf. After all, a fixing a significant bug is a buff, for all intents and purposes. And Quinn is in no way weak. Her bullying and safety in the top lane are potent. As a bot or mid laner she scales into a terrifying assassin-carry. Quinn can and probably should receive nerfs in the event that Riot fixes her, at the same time the fixes are implemented (to avoid repeating Azir's ordeal). A couple of great changes would be nerfs to Harrier's damage in the early game and a change in blind's duration from a flat 1.5 seconds to a scaling 1-2 seconds. These would greatly reduce her bullying power in top lane, while keeping her lategame intact for bot and mid.

I'd love for Quinn to be a competitively viable pick, but between her bugs and her other inconsistencies she won't ever see play, no matter how much the meta shifts in her favor. Riot's ignorance of Quinn is unacceptable.

EDIT: Glad to see the support. However, many people are coming in here and asking many of the same questions without reading the rest of the discussion, so I'm going to put this here to clarify some things. I will also be adding in other bugs from the comments into the OP.

FAQ:

Q: Isn't blind working as intended? If a attack is declared before blind is applied it goes through. A: Well sadly the attack goes through even if declared after blind is applied. Blind being based on when an attack is declared is fine, but the way Riot has implemented that is by making the first attack go through no matter what, which means that in many cases the spell does not work as intended (for example - you can blind Jinx in the animation of her W or R and her first attack will still go through)

Q: Isn't Teemo also affected by that blind bug? A: Yes. Not really sure why that's so important. Doesn't change the fact that it should be fixed.

Q: OMG How can you suggest Quinn buffs when she's so OP? A: I suggested compensatory nerfs that you would have seen had you actually read the thread. Also something tells me you main an immobile melee...

Q: Other ranged champions have similar AA cancelling issues, stop complaining. A: Please play Quinn and you'll understand. Not only are Quinn's AA animations the worst in the entire ADC class, but her passive enhanced AA animation is even worse. Also, she has only 525 range and is supposed to be played in a duo lane. I understand that several mages also have shitty AAs but for them AAs aren't their life.

Q: Isn't the thing with's Quinn's E intended? A: While the kickoff distance is supposed to change based on original distance, I do not believe it is intended for Quinn to land farther than her AA range. Regardless of whether it is truly a "bug" or not, it is something that should be fixed as it can be frustrating to many Quinn players.

235 Comments

Daedalus87157 votes

Quinn needs some QoL.

+1 OP

RiotRiot Reinboom35 votes

Hi guys! First up: I don't usually jump into the thick of things on champions. However! Sometimes a red posting will bring visibility to those who needs it. (Also sent this to someone who would be better able to handle the other issues). Thanks for the very detailed write up.

With that said... there is one of these bugs that specifically caught my eye: The blind bug. A bug like that tends to not be a bug with a champion but instead something more systemic. (Incidentally might explain why it has gone unfixed. Systemic bugs tend to hide much lower than others) So I'm now looking into that. And I have results. Usually sharing the details of working on a bug is blegh (unless it's a big one) but this one has some gameplay concerns and insight.

With that, some details:

  1. In the system as written... it's not actually a bug. It's just a VERY arcane mechanic. That used to have very good reasons to be there. Ultimatum hit outcomes (Dodge or Miss) are defined at "start attack". Like very start. Like on the client before you even start to see the windup frame. Basically the moment the server even begins to start piecing together what your attack might look like it figures out whether or not it will hit. This means when you "launch attack" (actually have the attack committed after the initial windup / when the missile is created for most ranged characters), it's already been determined awhile ago whether or not it will miss.

There's actually very good reasons to do this. You can't "cheat" the miss by rerolling the random miss chance or the random dodge chance. It's committed to it.

But wait... 2. The expectations of the system should PROBABLY change. Note the "random miss chance" / "random dodge chance" thing mentioned and note what's not in League anymore. The reason why #1 exists is no longer there and there is no reason to have arcane behavior when the reason for it is gone.

But after digging into the code some more... 3. This whole thing is set really early into the whole back and forth required to do a full attack and it's super risky to change. It's actually a hard move (for any game) to pull an expectation out from a deep stack of conditionals. That deep stack of conditionals is "there's a lot of champions and all of them attack." What this means is that changing this will take time. Not necessarily from a coding difficulty standpoint from a double checking to make sure nothing snapped elsewhere difficulty standpoint.

It will take a bit of time to figure this out from both standpoints.

Thryale5 votes

Thx for replying man! We appreciate it.

That being said, I brought up this issue about blind months ago. In fact, I even got Phreak to respond to my concern, and he basically said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "working as intended, and I don't think it should be fixed anyway"

What I said in my initial plea was that blind was operating on the same premise as all the old atk spd buffs/debuffs (working on next attack instead of applying instantly) and I asked if blind should be updated to operate according to the new instant application that all other atk modifiers were.

So you can see how I can have a bunch of salt in my mouth, eh?

RiotRiot Reinboom13 votes

To be fair, we each run on a little bit different amount of information and each of our sources of information each came from a different era of the game. There might be something I missed here, something underlying and fundamental. Or it might be hearsay that lead to the idea that blind couldn't be changed. Afterall, as mentioned in point #2, there was a VERY valid reason to work the way it does a long while ago.

Of course, that's information you didn't have still and that sucks. :(

Jesus is Savior2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Reinboom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WYciMlb1,comment-id=005900000000,timestamp=2015-03-07T07:14:53.135+0000)

To be fair, we each run on a little bit different amount of information and each of our sources of information each came from a different era of the game. There might be something I missed here, something underlying and fundamental. Or it might be hearsay that lead to the idea that blind couldn't be changed. Afterall, as mentioned in point #2, there was a VERY valid reason to work the way it does a long while ago.

Of course, that's information you didn't have still and that sucks. :(

Can you keep us updated?

As-in, when someone decides "yes this will be fixed" or "no, this is working as intended" can you let us know what the programming team decides for sure?

RiotRiot Reinboom6 votes

Sure! I have an update now after doing some more digging.

We have a fix tentatively in for 5.6. The fix basically moves the miss chance definition of blinds from "attack declare" to "attack launch" (basically, from before the windup time until once the windup time is finished). This fix is going through QA now. If there are any problems we'll pull it for a later patch to figure those out.

Eyrgos1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Reinboom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WYciMlb1,comment-id=00590000000000030000,timestamp=2015-03-12T02:17:49.188+0000)

Sure! I have an update now after doing some more digging.

I have a fix tentatively in for 5.6. The fix basically moves the miss chance definition of blinds from "attack declare" to "attack launch" (basically, from before the windup time until once the windup time is finished). This fix is going through QA now. If there are any problems I'll pull it for a later patch to figure those out.

You're awesome! Now, my understanding is you just do Bugs & coding that goes along with Bugs.

Any chance you could please see if a Rioter wants to take on the task of helping us with her Gameplay?

A Red-Hosted, "Let's Talk About Quinn & Valor" Gameplay-Oriented discussion for critiques/feedback/suggestions!

She desperately needs it.*

Also, this may or may not fall into your realm... probably gameplay...

But Vault wigging out & tossing Quinn's into a 180deg. from intended landing spot...

I'm pretty sure it's because something in the coding pertains to your angle at start of cast relative to their angle from start-to-finish.

I think it should be rewritten to where we predictably land on the invisible line drawn from source (Quinn) to target, regardless of how they pivot.

It definitely goes bonkers with regards to how the enemy pivots during the cast.

Happens all the time with Ezreal's blink, Vayne's Vault, & Tristana's Rocket Jump in particular... pretty much anytime the target-model quickly changes facing.

Could be counted as a bug that would be fixed with the above suggestion!

Think you can handle that one?!

Thank you for the follow-through & the presence Riot Reinboom, this means so much to us!!!

Sincerely,

Eyrgos

P.S. Also, do you know if Harrier is intended to select Small Monsters before Large ones? Because it shouldn't if so. And if not, we'd love that fixed! Jungle Quinn's unite!!

RiotRiot Reinboom6 votes

Many of those (such as the vaulting in the wrong direction) are being looked at as Meddler mentioned. There's a few different eyes on Quinn!

As a complete aside to Quinn... For the expectations of what I do: I'm not a "bugs person" or something like that. I'm a tech designer on gameplay systems. Basically, I work on gameplay design at the "Summoner's Rift" level and the wider interactions therein. (Turrets, items, broad reaching mechanisms, and that kind of thing). The "tech" word only says that us tech designers can use the tools of a software engineer (e.g. programming in the game code) as tools for game design.

RiotMeddler9 votes

We've got a couple of other fixes for Quinn going into 5.6 too. One's for a bug where Harrier's sometimes not applied by Vault. Another's for a case where Vault would take Quinn so far back she'd be out of range to attack afterwards.

FatedTitan4 votes

What about her auto canceling when it's already in mid flight? Makes it impossible to orb walk.

rmreagle2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Reinboom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WYciMlb1,comment-id=00590000000000030000,timestamp=2015-03-12T02:17:49.188+0000)

Sure! I have an update now after doing some more digging.

We have a fix tentatively in for 5.6. The fix basically moves the miss chance definition of blinds from "attack declare" to "attack launch" (basically, from before the windup time until once the windup time is finished). This fix is going through QA now. If there are any problems we'll pull it for a later patch to figure those out.

Can we adjust Quinn's attack launch to actually launch? I've had AAs cancel that were halfway to their target... It seems like her windup is still happening when the arrow left her crossbow....doesn;t make a lot of sense...

rmreagle2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Reinboom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WYciMlb1,comment-id=0059,timestamp=2015-03-07T05:37:44.156+0000)

Hi guys! First up: I don't usually jump into the thick of things on champions. However! Sometimes a red posting will bring visibility to those who needs it. (Also sent this to someone who would be better able to handle the other issues). Thanks for the very detailed write up.

With that said... there is one of these bugs that specifically caught my eye: The blind bug. A bug like that tends to not be a bug with a champion but instead something more systemic. (Incidentally might explain why it has gone unfixed. Systemic bugs tend to hide much lower than others) So I'm now looking into that. And I have results. Usually sharing the details of working on a bug is blegh (unless it's a big one) but this one has some gameplay concerns and insight.

With that, some details:

  1. In the system as written... it's not actually a bug. It's just a VERY arcane mechanic. That used to have very good reasons to be there. Ultimatum hit outcomes (Dodge or Miss) are defined at "start attack". Like very start. Like on the client before you even start to see the windup frame. Basically the moment the server even begins to start piecing together what your attack might look like it figures out whether or not it will hit. This means when you "launch attack" (actually have the attack committed after the initial windup / when the missile is created for most ranged characters), it's already been determined awhile ago whether or not it will miss.

There's actually very good reasons to do this. You can't "cheat" the miss by rerolling the random miss chance or the random dodge chance. It's committed to it.

But wait... 2. The expectations of the system should PROBABLY change. Note the "random miss chance" / "random dodge chance" thing mentioned and note what's not in League anymore. The reason why #1 exists is no longer there and there is no reason to have arcane behavior when the reason for it is gone.

But after digging into the code some more... 3. This whole thing is set really early into the whole back and forth required to do a full attack and it's super risky to change. It's actually a hard move (for any game) to pull an expectation out from a deep stack of conditionals. That deep stack of conditionals is "there's a lot of champions and all of them attack." What this means is that changing this will take time. Not necessarily from a coding difficulty standpoint from a double checking to make sure nothing snapped elsewhere difficulty standpoint.

It will take a bit of time to figure this out from both standpoints.

Does this take into account aggroing a jungle camp with a blind? For instance, aggro Gromp with blinding assault, and the gromp's first attack still hits Quinn.... So did the gromp "decide" to attack her before the blinding assault lands?

RiotRiot Reinboom7 votes

I have another follow up for this!

The fix is fundamentally working but is requiring a bunch of individual tweaks to some champions. Basically, anything that set "critical" explicitly (think Pantheon E passive, though there are more than what may be obvious) would have that critical go through the new blind and hit anyways. Each individual fix isn't really significant but there's enough of them that we would rather be safe for a patch than miss something.

So the blind fix won't be in for 5.6 so that we have enough time to gain confidence in it.

Konidias25 votes

As a Quinn main who struggles with all these bugs... all I have to say is if they ever fix her, I will be a LoL God, incapable of losing a game.

It's like I've been playing with one hand behind my back for a year straight, and then finally I get to use my other hand.... It would be insane the huge difference in win ratio I'd have with her. I'm not even joking. I can't even count how many times I've lost fights as Quinn merely because of her bugs. A perfect vault engage that ends up with me somehow bouncing backwards into the enemy turret... that one last AA I need to hit for the kill and then she cancels it midway through the projectile path.... The blind I desperately need lands and the enemy throws one last free AA on me to kill me instead of me finishing them... The missed damage on jungle camps, monsters, etc due to passive not proccing unless I'm closer than AA range.... and definitely all the times I vault off an enemy and land too far away to even AA once afterward... I can't begin to comprehend how much damage I'm losing every game from THAT alone.

I really can't even think about all this because it just makes me want to rage... Riot literally refuses to respond to anything Quinn related, and the irony is that I'm always seeing Riot staff say how Quinn is their favorite champ... WHAT?

Black Star 12992 votes

The last one is intended...

There was a change for her to make her go farther away when jumped from melee range and shorter away when jumped from a lot farther away. (Remember distance B and it's changing numbers?) It's a really useful feature though, helps her from running away and creating more distance when needed.

That being said, from another Quinn main, please fix those bugs, Riot. Quinn just needs some more love.

Really awesome champion, don't let the bugs prevent her from getting what she deserves...

CatSith2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Black Star 1299,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WYciMlb1,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-03-03T02:00:25.399+0000)

The last one is intended...

There was a change for her to make her go farther away when jumped from melee range and shorter away when jumped from a lot farther away. (Remember distance B and it's changing numbers?) It's a really useful feature though, helps her from running away and creating more distance when needed.

That being said, from another Quinn main, please fix those bugs, Riot. Quinn just needs some more love.

Really awesome champion, don't let the bugs prevent her from getting what she deserves...

+1 Agreed on the E distance, IDK why people think it goes too far lol

Black Star 12995 votes

It goes too far because it goes further than her autoattack range, so she can't harass them back instantly once she e's melees.

I do think it's another good Top Quinn nerf and bot and mid buff.

OyddAWqJ5r6 votes

Quinn dashes to an enemy, dealing physical damage and slowing the target's Movement Speed. Upon reaching the target, she leaps off the target, briefly interrupting it, and lands near her maximum Attack Range away from the target. Valor will immediately mark this enemy as Vulnerable.

It's 100% intended. Is it better than landing her in basic attack range? I don't really know. I think it should be treated like a Vel'Koz E where the closer she is the further she jumps and the farther the shorter.

PoisonedPeace6 votes

It is intended that she is in range to immediately auto attack after E, and that is not the case.

Edbwn3 votes

Pretty sure it's supposed to land you just INSIDE auto attack range. The tooltip is a bit vague.

Phanron2 votes

Before Riot gave Quinn a knockback she would always land inside her autoattack range. You can see it in her champion spotlight. If they really wanted her farther away they'd land her more than just a tiny step away.

Konidias4 votes

{quoted}

I've noticed that Riot has favorite champions that they give more love to than others. You especially see this in how they allow certain champions to dominate while others get nerfed into oblivion. If you changed the title to "Lee Sin's abilities not activating fast enough", you'll probably get a response.

But the strange thing is that several Riot members have come forward claiming that Quinn is their favorite (or one of their favorite) champions. I guess those people aren't in charge of balance then.

{quoted}

Before Riot gave Quinn a knockback she would always land inside her autoattack range. You can see it in her champion spotlight. If they really wanted her farther away they'd land her more than just a tiny step away.

Yeah I definitely remember this when I started playing her in Sep of last year. She was much better at the vault into AA. Then there was the weird DistanceB bug after they tweaked her vault, and now the vault is straight garbage.

I would MUCH RATHER have her vault land consistently at max AA range than whatever this "variation" is where you go farther away when you vault close up and you land closer when you vault from afar. As mentioned, I'd rather vault to max AA and get the move speed buff from landing her passive AA than to land like 35 units farther out and not get to land my AA after.

This change just screws Quinn out of so much damage. The AA on to the enemy should literally be GUARANTEED unless Quinn gets CC'd right when she lands. If this means removing the damage portion on her Vault I'm fine with it. That damage is pretty weak anyway.

It's also pretty lame that her passive does nothing for her in Valor form. Why not let Valor have some type of passive? Maybe some sort of defensive thing like it procs the target and if Valor attacks it, it applies a few seconds of armor and magic resist... or it prevent valor from being CC'd for several seconds. That would allow someone to ult as Valor, go in for a kill, and if they time the passive right or wait for it to come up, they get a chance to escape. It's not like it would be OP considering there are champs that already exist that can do INSANE amounts of burst damage and then literally teleport right out of the fight. (leblanc, zed, etc)

Kitten of Evil12 votes

Thank you for keeping posts about this up on the boards. I've picked up Quinn top recently and I love her, but all the bugs you've pointed out make her very frustrating to play as. I'd just add one:

Often, Harrier will mark a target and an AA immediately after (or even in flight) will not proc the mark.

Sozan58 votes

{quoted}

Here is a list of Quinn's bugs:

  • Enemy's first attack always ignores blind

This is a problem with blind effect rather than Quinn herself (Teemo is also affected). Blind works based on start of attack animation, so if you blind someone who already started their attack animation - the attack will be unaffected (so it will hit). However, it also means that when they start the next attack just as the blind is ending - the attack will miss (even though champion will not be blinded by that time).

Also, apparently attack animation for skills like Vayne tumble is the animation of skill itself (so if you blind Vayne while she's rolling on the ground - her attack won't miss).

  • Quinn's AAs can be cancelled even after they are in flight

This so much. It's also a problem of Draven, but to a smaller degree. They should adjust either the animation or just cancelling frames of it.

  • E takes Quinn outside of her AA range, making her have to walk forward to attack her target

I couldn't make that happen, I tried both on target with large hitbox (Sion) and very small one (Teemo). The only way I can see it happening is when you jump throught the wall with E bounce.

  • E not kicking off at all or kicking off in melee range

E will bounce in melee range if you don't have space behind you (or to be precise - in the direction that game wanted you to go).

  • Range for passive to apply is shorter than AA range

It seems significantly higher than AA. Never saw that problem.

Quinn's issues aren't just bugs though. Her AA animations are the worst in her class when it comes to canceling and orbwalking (not counting Urgot here for obvious reasons). Skystrike's damage is at its highest when her enemies are dead. The cooldown of Tag Team starts when Skystrike is cast, rather than at the beginning of the duration, punishing Quinn for making use of her ultimate's potential 20 second duration. Her passive will often target minions who are already killable by a non-enhanced AA, or target minions who are in the middle of dying.

I honestly think no one is satisfied with Quinn as she is right now. Quinn mains are mad that she's buggy. Top laners hate that they still have to deal with her. Supports don't want to support her. If you pick her mid, your team is likely to get mad at your "troll pick". How can Riot be satisfied with Quinn in this state?

I'm not dumb enough to suggest Quinn get buffs without any sort of compensatory nerf. After all, a fixing a significant bug is a buff, for all intents and purposes. And Quinn is in no way weak. Her bullying and safety in the top lane are potent. As a bot or mid laner she scales into a terrifying assassin-carry. Quinn can and probably should receive nerfs in the event that Riot fixes her, at the same time the fixes are implemented (to avoid repeating Azir's ordeal). A couple of great changes would be nerfs to Harrier's damage in the early game and a change in blind's duration from a flat 1.5 seconds to a scaling 1-2 seconds. These would greatly reduce her bullying power in top lane, while keeping her lategame intact for bot and mid.

I'd love for Quinn to be a competitively viable pick, but between her bugs and her other inconsistencies she won't ever see play, no matter how much the meta shifts in her favor. Riot's ignorance of Quinn is unacceptable.

Anyway, I don't play Quinn too much, but I agree that she needs bugfixes. I probably would be playing her a lot more if she wasn't pretty much broken (as in - doesn't work properly). Especially her AA cancel is hurting me.

Anonagon3 votes

{quoted}

This is a problem with blind effect rather than Quinn herself (Teemo is also affected). Blind works based on start of attack animation, so if you blind someone who already started their attack animation - the attack will be unaffected (so it will hit). However, it also means that when they start the next attack just as the blind is ending - the attack will miss (even though champion will not be blinded by that time).

Also, apparently attack animation for skills like Vayne tumble is the animation of skill itself (so if you blind Vayne while she's rolling on the ground - her attack won't miss).

Actually, the first attack will go through no matter what. It can be in the middle of the blind and it will still go through. Easiest way to confirm this is to walk in the jungle and blind Gromp.

I couldn't make that happen, I tried both on target with large hitbox (Sion) and very small one (Teemo). The only way I can see it happening is when you jump throught the wall with E bounce.

Its something that happens when you do it from as close as possible, and the kickback distance does not account for the knockback portion of the ability.

E will bounce in melee range if you don't have space behind you (or to be precise - in the direction that game wanted you to go).

Its not a bug I have confirmed, which is why I said so. Someone else described the problem to me in a different Quinn thread. The way they described it was not as if you didn't have the space behind you, but it just stopped you within melee range of the target whether there was a wall or not.

It seems significantly higher than AA. Never saw that problem.

Once again, not one I have confirmed.

Phanron4 votes

I read that very rarely when you E you find yourself unable to move and worse yet, unable to attack.

I'd be happy if they just made her land in aa range after vault

Konidias4 votes

Another multi page 100+ upvote Quinn thread that Riot won't respond to. :(

Oh and lets not forget the grandmother of Quinn bugs... where you glitch in Valor form so you are stuck looking like you're Valor but you are actually Quinn. I think it happened to me when I teleported back to base right when my ult ended... so the valor animation got stuck but mechanically I was playing like Quinn. It was impossible to tell how my blind was working because I'd hit Q and it would show Valor doing his blind animation but it definitely wasn't Valor mechanics... and when I AA'd Valor would attack but arrows would come out.

Only way to get it to stop is to die.

Gelfrosh4 votes

I remember when I tried to main Quinn....

I had a game where I got glitched and stuck as Valor from 15 minutes to the end of the game.

Solari Fortune4 votes

These bugs need to be fixed so badly, I love to play Quinn but she can sometimes just flop because of the bugs she has. As a top lane she destroys melee champs, although i do struggle with other ranged opponents. She can get to the point of dueling a zed and winning with her kind of power. As an ADC she can really mop the floor in a duel with her blind and passive procs. Her early game bullying is really great with auto vault auto for a massive amount of damage that people will not expect from you, and late game is where she shines with the ability to split push insanely fast with the use of her ult passive attack speed. and her mid game is really great as well cause you can use the ult to go after those who survived a team fight. I have tried to get people to see the greatness of this wonderful ADC but her bugs cause a lot of harm in this quest. Hopefully Riot hears our pleas and fixes her issues. May the Quinn Mains rise and let justice take wing.

Konidias4 votes

230+ upvotes, 7 pages of discussion...

What is missing here? Oh yeah, Riot.

SERIOUSLY. What is with Riot and ignoring Quinn? It's like everyone at Riot had to sign an NDA to not speak about Quinn unless it's about how much they love her and she's their favorite champ.

Also just wanted to add on to the Blind issue... So I finally paid attention to how bad the blind was, and get this... if you throw a blind at Gromp, guess how many attacks it causes Gromp to miss? Two? Three? Nope. ONE.

You block ONE attack.

ONE.

RIOT PLZ.

Straley3 votes

I just recently started playing Quinn and I would also like to see these changes. My face when blinded Nasus still hit me with Q enhanced aa -_-

Darkwind5 votes

{quoted}

I just recently started playing Quinn and I would also like to see these changes. My face when blinded Nasus still hit me with Q enhanced aa -_-

The damage from Nasus Q cannot miss, be dodged, or blocked. So that's working as intended.

Eyrgos3 votes

{quoted}

The damage from Nasus Q cannot miss, be dodged, or blocked. So that's working as intended.

Which should change IMHO, "counterplay(tm)"

RNJefe3 votes

I've been saying this as well. I have a sneaky suspicion that they plan on reworking her that's why they are keeping quiet. I'd rather know she's being work on though than being surprised.

Anonagon18 votes

I wouldn't want to see a rework. Her kit is nearly ideal, and it would be annoying if they tried something radical like a rework before just fixing her bugs.

RNJefe4 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't want to see a rework. Her kit is nearly ideal, and it would be annoying if they tried something radical like a rework before just fixing her bugs.

I agree. That's why I was saying I just wish we knew if anything.

Aarekk3 votes

A while back they accidentally added some changes to her on the PBE. It turned her more into a form changing champ. At rank 3, she could valor every few seconds (i think) for a much lower mana cost (if not free). They removed Skystrike for this and lowered some of Val's free stats. Switching forms would refresh w.

I am Madlife2 votes

Quinn's bugs???? Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix ?????????????????

Biff Manly6 votes

{quoted}

Quinn's bugs???? Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix Khazix ?????????????????

Just because Khaz IS a bug doesn't make his bugs more buggy.

buh-dum-tsss

ZephyrDrake2 votes

this would imply that Riot cares about Quinn in the slightest. Quinn is going to be left i the dust just as long as Poppy, Urgot, Yorick are. I don't even have the slightest idea of what the hell Quinn wants to be. An ADC? a top lane duelist? no idea. For someone who has a 2nd form and a whole 2nd set of spells she sure doesn't stay in Valor form long enough or goes into valor form often enough. Hell i have seen more ults used just to catch up to the opponents or escaping from them not to actually fight in it

Anonagon5 votes

While you could say she has a second form, she isn't a form changing character like Nidalee or Jayce. Its a steroid akin to Riven or Shyvana where their abilities are the same but changed slightly.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

While you could say she has a second form, she isn't a form changing character like Nidalee or Jayce. Its a steroid akin to Riven or Shyvana where their abilities are the same but changed slightly.

"changed slightly" sorry but her abilities are changed more than enough to actually not be anywhere near close to being a Riven or a Shyvanna. Riven just gets more range to her attacks and Shyvanna just gets the same skills but now they have an AoE to them. They still function the same. Quinn in Valor form? well for once he is melee and not ranged, one skill instead of creating space between her and the enemy it actually makes you rush towards them, her Q is melee range and she loses her passive. Valor is nowhere near a steroid of any kind since that implies it makes the character stronger and i would argue that Valor makes her weaker overall since she doesn't build any form of tankyness, she doesn't get a power boost... she just gets faster and is now melee range which makes her even more vulnerable than she already is

Cis7v04 votes

from what ive seen you have never played quinn (ranked wise). so i can only assume that you rarely if ever play her. so you saying her ult is useless is like me saying leblanc's ult is useless. i have no idea cause i dont play her. i know what it does, yes, but i dont know the potential it has cause i dont like it/i dont play her. but im not going to say its bad cause its not, in the right hands.

if you dont play quinn, why would you be on here posting in a bug/balance thread about quinn? shes not lee or zed where she's seen every game so anyone can bitch about balance.

btw her ult is fine. the only thing that needs fixed are her bugs, then maybe a slight nerf after.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

from what ive seen you have never played quinn (ranked wise). so i can only assume that you rarely if ever play her. so you saying her ult is useless is like me saying leblanc's ult is useless. i have no idea cause i dont play her. i know what it does, yes, but i dont know the potential it has cause i dont like it/i dont play her. but im not going to say its bad cause its not, in the right hands.

if you dont play quinn, why would you be on here posting in a bug/balance thread about quinn? shes not lee or zed where she's seen every game so anyone can bitch about balance.

btw her ult is fine. the only thing that needs fixed are her bugs, then maybe a slight nerf after.

excuse me? she has received so little attention since her release and you think fixing a few bugs is going to make her be in need of nerfs? sorry but Valor is pretty much a "win more... maybe" ult, if you are behind it does nothing for you and if you are ahead then guess what? it just makes you vulnerable but since you are ahead more likely than not she will win that trade. I don't play LeBlanc and even i know how powerful her ult is so no, it's not the same since it's just you talking out of your ass. I have played Quinn and since i last played her she has received ONE thing and that was a bugfix that didn't really made her viable.

Her ult is not fine, it's the main reason she is in the state she is currently, why are you here bitching about people posting in a place? are you a mod? do you have any power whatsoever to decide who can post and who cannot? I don't play Quinn currently because she is worthless as a champion, fixing a bunch of bugs isn't going to make her be so strong that will require nerfing, it will help her yes but not enough since her ult is flawed!

Maybe you should go and post in a Zed/Lee thread yourself since you like talking right out of your ass.

meneroth23 votes

You say her ult is not fine, but you don't play her and the op is talking out of his ass....

Anyway, Quinn's ult really is the least buggy part of her and extremely strong. It's an 80% attack speed buff at max rank with a blind that won't miss. It's actually the ultimate equalizer, free stats on a master yi level. That ult of hers is incredible and let's her pick off any adc in the game easily, fed or not. Without the ult you would be screwed if you leave lane poorly; with it she can catch up easily or completely own the map with some cdr to keep the ult up. So in your words, stop talking out of your ass.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

You say her ult is not fine, but you don't play her and the op is talking out of his ass....

Anyway, Quinn's ult really is the least buggy part of her and extremely strong. It's an 80% attack speed buff at max rank with a blind that won't miss. It's actually the ultimate equalizer, free stats on a master yi level. That ult of hers is incredible and let's her pick off any adc in the game easily, fed or not. Without the ult you would be screwed if you leave lane poorly; with it she can catch up easily or completely own the map with some cdr to keep the ult up. So in your words, stop talking out of your ass.

hahahaha a baddie talking out of his ass defending another baddie talking out of his ass. get good please. "let's her pick off any adc in the game easily" if only it were actually that good then she might see some level of play... oh wait! Without her ult she would suck yes, that's like saying "without X champion's ult it will suck" that doesn't make the ult good. Once again she doesn't even gain that AS because of her ult, she gains it because of a skill that was modified so you can literally have a rank 1 ult and still get a bunch of AS since the ult itself does nothing but make you a somewhat fast melee champion. Master Yi is can do all he does because he doesn't lose speed, he cannot be slowed and he can just jump like a mad man whenever he kills someone. Quinn? well she can catch up to someone... and die immediately unless she is ahead of the enemy. GET GOOD BADDIE!

The Bardic Gay4 votes

Ult also allows you to access a pretty numerically strong large AOE execute. Admittedly, it needs it's maximum damage threshold to be hit before the point of literal death like Riven's is.

Quinn doesn't see competitive play because of her garbage auto-attack cancel, finicky passive, the laundry list of bugs listen in this thread, ect. ect.

Her ult is an odd one, yeah, but it's not strictly bad on a conceptual level, and that's even ignoring your ridiculous claims of the 40-80% AS boost somehow not counting because it's multiplier of a facet of another skill, which i suppose would be valid if you felt like not leveling a tool that normal Quinn levels no matter what unless the player is clinically retarded.

Also, "baddie"? Really? Is this season 3?

meneroth24 votes

Oh man, the crushing baddie comment. Man that really hurts deep. Look, just because you never see Quinn and apparently don't play Quinn doesn't give you a strong opinion to put out. In fact it's quite the opposite as you have nothing to back it up beyond.....I don't even know, stubbornness I guess.

Quinn has strengths and one of them is an incredibly powerful ult that, combined with a blind, makes her one of the absolute best duelists against ADCs, even if she is behind. She doesn't see pro play because of her bugs and her drastic power difference between ult form and normal form.

I know your gonna just push out attitude for whatever reason and this will fall on deaf ears but I've already typed it so I'll finish. Quinn has strong 1v1 game at all stages and even in her second best position at adc is a perfectly viable champ, especially at our level of play. There are plenty of champions defined by the power of their ults and Quinn is just another one except where most see it in teamfights (Amumu, orianna) hers makes her an unbeatable duelist and tier 1 split pusher. It's a great ult for climbing the ladder and keeps her in the viable end of the the pool

kcStranger2 votes

This discussion probably entirely legitimate, but it should be in the "Report a Bug" section, not "Gameplay and Balance."

Anonagon7 votes

Not every bug is confirmed or easily repeatable, so they cannot be properly reported in the Report a Bug section. Also, the scope of discussion is not just Quinn's bugs but also her overall state of balance and Riot's intentions with her.

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