Gameplay suggestion: Pinging mana and health bards - Show value not percentage

TheEdgeOfDestiny·Aug 5, 2016·7 votes·842 views

Percentage doesn't tell your allies meaningful information. You may have 10% and 200 mana or 10% and 50 mana. So when jungler approaches he can only assume that 19% means you're warning him that you're low on mana and don't have enough for combo. With health showing percentage is even more useless since everyone can see health bars.

P.S.: @mod, if you want to delete the thread again can you at least tell why you think this suggestion is more suitable for "Concepts & Creations"? I don't see this. There is little concept and no creation in post. Only suggestion for gameplay mechanic.

24 Comments

ReikkenAug 5, 20162 votes

yeah people can already visually see % health and mana very quickly, so this would be a good change

Critmaster GarenAug 5, 20161 votes

makes sense. someone with a fully stacked tear and some other mana items still has a lot of mana at 10%.

someone with only base mana is pretty much oom.

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 5, 20161 votes

This is especially important in early game when jungler approaches. Even if he doesn't know the champion you're playing knowing that you have 75 mana he can assume that you can use 1 ability. While 7% tells him nothing. Or tells him that you're just low on mana.

Fondling GemsAug 5, 20161 votes

I would argue that this also isn't fair though. For example 200 mana might seem like enough to use your kit, but 200 mana is very different for a Jayce than someone like Cassiopea. With % you should be roughly aware of % of their mana each champ burns through even if you don't know the numbers.

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 5, 20161 votes

I don't know any abilities that use % mana. It would be more helpful for nearby ally to know flat amount because he may not know how much max mana you have to calculate how many abilities you can use. Even if roaming ally or jungler doesn't know your champ he can do some assumptions because early abilites cost somewhat between 50-100 mana and around 150 for aoe abilities later.

Fondling GemsAug 5, 20161 votes

You don't spend any time observing your lanes? I see how much of their mana they burn through when using abilities. I don't have time to math out whether the champ has enough raw mana to utilize their kit, I see the items everyone has and have a good understanding of how much mana different champs use. Based on that I can easily tell whether a champ below 1/3 mana has enough mana to participate in a fight, not if they have over X amount of mana.

Honestly I think it comes down to preference. I have nothing against this being implemented, I would simply rather still have the option to show percents. I personally am the type of person who takes the tactician role in large scale dungeons. I base my knowledge of the situation not off the numbers of people's health/mana, but off of how low they are and my knowledge of how much lower each type of ally can go.

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 6, 20161 votes

It is easier to tell if you know flat amount rather then percentage because abilities use flat amount and not percentage.

Fondling GemsAug 6, 20161 votes

Ahh, for you maybe. However as I just explained I don't have time to look at the numbers. I am used to knowing what items my team has, and based on that what % of their mana they use. It takes longer to click on a champ, look at the mana, and mentally figure out if that is enough than to simply glance at the champ and see what % of mana they are at and know from there. Almost every game conditions my brain to use not flat numbers, but the % they are at.

So for me it IS easier to tell based on %.

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 6, 20162 votes

No, it's just common sense and logic.

Abilities use flat amount. In order to get flat amount from percentage you have to know max amount. You need more actions to do a simple thing.

Fondling GemsAug 6, 20161 votes

Sigh. Why don't people understand that you can't say what is easier for others? I am telling you. Right now. Plainly. As clearly as I can. That for me it is easier to know how much mana my teammates have based on %. Not flat amount. I never said this was easier for everyone, or even most people. However it is true for me, which means it is almost certainly true for others.

I never said anything against a flat number being shown, I simply was making a point that it isn't better for everyone and that if added there should be an option that lets you choose how it displays.

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 7, 20161 votes

Because it's logic. Easier has a definition. Mechanic which requires less actions is easier (because it requires less actions).

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 7, 20161 votes

There may people that for example do 10 pushups in addition to looking up max mana and calculating flat amount when they want to transfer percentage mana to flat amount. And it's even good for them. But it's not good for in context of existing game mechanic.

Fondling GemsAug 7, 20161 votes

I don't know why you are arguing against having both? It doesn't hurt you in any way if I choose to do it the way that is easier for me. Also Let me explain in reply to your comment below why it is easier for me.

I can, at any time out of combat, look at a teamate's items. From this I can see their health/mana. I mentally have a catalog of how much of each of those resources any champ needs to be able to participate depending on the situation. This is done all out of combat in a non stressful time when it doesn't matter if it takes me a bit longer to go through it, because it is mental preparation before hand. Then when there is a stressful situation where I don't have time to click on an ally and see just how much health/mana they have I can just glance at their bars and know from the percents.

In other words my method is:

Before hand mental prepping (Knowledge of how much mana/health % an ally burns through in combat & their items influence on that) -In combat-
Look at ally bars
See the % they are at

So it is only 2 steps when it actually matters.

Your method is:

Before hand mental prep (Knowledge of how much mana/health someone uses in flat amounts) -in combat-
Click on ally
Read the number of each of their bars
Know if that is enough

(I separated out the step 3 for me into 3 & 4 for you because it takes longer to comprehend a specific number and compare it to a general number in your head than to go "They are at 1/4 mana? That is enough")

So while my method DOES take more before hand mental prep it is actually much faster in combat AND I can do it while attack someone else which you can't do since you have to click on your ally. This is why we don't have numbers above our heads, we have bars, because it is easier and faster for the human brain to work with values like 1/2 or 1/4 or 1/5 than values like 262 mana.

So yes, in combat it IS easier for me. Also remember that easier isn't just number of steps. It is a lot easier to do an equation like X = (53^2)63 + 12/A where A is 7/13 than to imagine a new colour. Our minds are perfectly capable of both, and one is only one step, but it is basically impossible for our minds to comprehend because our minds don't work that way.

People's minds work in very different ways. Some people have to have visualization of something to easily understand it. Some people need it to be said out loud. Others learn through stuff that is written down. So don't say what is and isn't easier for everyone. As I clearly stated, my mind comprehends and compares percentages much more easily than flat numbers, so for me it is both a faster process and an easier one because that is what my mind is good at. I promise you it would take me a couple times longer to do it your way than my way.

Also you clearly misunderstand how I am getting my percentages. I don't have to look up flat numbers and convert them. I straight up just know from experience how quickly every champ in league burns through mana. When you watch people burn through mana you aren't watching the amounts of mana they are using unless they are very low and you are watching to see if they have enough mana to ult. You watch the speed at which they burn through mana and from that know whether they have enough mana to combo. I also know how much different mana items increase mana pools by, and as such can easily factor that in.

it is nothing so complex as looking things up. I just know how much of their mana champs use.

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 8, 20161 votes

I'm arguing because you defending percentage. And knowing percentage is useless.

Fondling GemsAug 8, 20161 votes

How is it useless if that is what I use?

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 8, 20161 votes

I already explained that in above posts.

Fondling GemsAug 9, 20161 votes

And your argument is flawed. Something can't be useless if I use it correct? You were the one using the definition of Easier before. Well I am calling in the definition of Useless.

Useless: "not fulfilling or not expected to achieve the intended purpose or desired outcome"

I use it and it fulfills the purpose I use it for and gives me the desired outcome. Therefore it is not useless to me. That means that is probably isn't useless to other people too.

I really don't understand why you can't just agree that it would be best to have the option to select between the two. Currently you are saying "I want this game to be easier for one group and harder for a different group just because I am not part of that second group even if some members of that second group are on my team and having them see one type of data just confuses them and makes it harder for them to make split second decisions"

At no point have I said anything against being able to see flat numbers when people alt click their mana bar. In fact I fully support having that implemented. My only goal in this thread is to point out that for some of us it is easier to see and understand percentages so we should have the option to see that too. You arguing against me isn't supporting your claim, because I am not arguing against it. You arguing against me is only you shutting down the input of other members of the community even though what they are arguing for has absolutely no effect on your gameplay.

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 9, 20161 votes

What you are saying is a kludge. You just using additional resources to create a workaround above unuserfriendly UI.

Fondling GemsAug 9, 20161 votes

This entire post is about adding more work for Riot to do, and honestly it is really easy to do. As a programmer I know just how simple it is. It changes from being "On ctrl + click on mana bar paste X to chat" to being "On ctrl + click on mana bar if Z is true, paste X. If Z is false, paste Y"

It really is a negligible amount of effort to get that working. And I am sure that for many of us that is much more user friendly.

What you don't seem to understand is that while there are plenty of people who want to see flat numbers, there are also plenty of us that want to see percents. My issue with all your arguments is that, at their core, you are ignoring that other people think in a different way than you. You just assume that no one wants to see percents and don't seem to even marginally care for those people. You go so far as to say that a toggle option shouldn't be added when completely new assets, a new button combination, and a toggle option were added for a freaking skin (Dj sona)

All you are telling me at this point is "FUCK EVERYONE ELSE WHO DOESN'T WANT THINGS THE WAY I WANT THEM" Like seriously dude. Why can't you seem to understand that people can want different things and that asking to completely remove one option that one group likes with one that a slightly larger group likes when it would be very simple to do both is just a stupid and elitist way of thinking.

Guess what, others are people too, and saying "fuck those people, lets only do enough work to get things the way I want them and not put in a tiny bit more work" is a pretty stupid thing to say.

Milodic MellodiAug 7, 20161 votes

I have a suggestion (and I'm too lazy to see if someone already said it): Why not just have both mana value AND percentage? Have it be like, let's say: 200 Mana (10%). Anyone with a brain can guess "okay, this guy has 2000 total mana", and also "wow he looks like he needs help, his percentage is low". However, since it would also say the value the person would think "he doesn't seem to be TOO low on mana, I'll set up a gank instead of rushing to him".

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 7, 20161 votes

Can you imagine a situation where percentage would be more helpful then flat amount? How many there are such situations comparing to opposite type?

P.S.: I have a feeling they done this way (percentage not flat amount) because it was easier to program. I assume they have percentage value on UI layer (mana bar) so they just show this value in chat. While getting flat amount would require more programming.

Milodic MellodiAug 7, 20161 votes

I wasn't saying ONLY percentage or ONLY flat amount. I said BOTH. As in you see BOTH percentage AND flat value. Did you not read anything I typed?

TheEdgeOfDestinyAug 8, 20161 votes

I have no problem with BOTH. I think percentage is useless.

Having low mana is a binary state and also refers to flat amount. Abilities use flat amount so in order to know how many abilities can one use you need only flat amount.

Percentage can only tell if your ally stacking up mana.

Milodic MellodiAug 9, 20161 votes

Percentage isn't useless in general, just by itself it is. It makes reading Flat easier to read. When you think about it, wouldn't you like to know the general amount of max Mana your mid laner has without having to scroll to them? Like "My Swain has a lot of max Mana, and I know this because he currently has [insert amount] mana at [insert percentage], I should build Rylai's or the like to gank his lane", or "It looks like Garen is going full Tank, and I know this because he currently has [insert amount] health". On second thought, the Health bar should only have flat value...sounded better when I was thinking it...but the mana bar should definitely have both. EDIT: Now that I think about it, why not make both options toggle-able in the menu? Some champs don't need one, others don't need the other. Pretty much no one but Olaf really needs the Health percentage option, for example.