RIOT should make more items with downsides

Disulfiram··31 votes·1,070 views

Imho this would make it possible to forbid certain classes (cough adcs cough) from abusing stats meant for other classes (cough lethality cough).

For example, if item 3147 also reduced attack speed then it would be a terrible item for DPSers while retaining its value for assassins.

19 Comments

YokoNomi17 votes

The concept itself sounds neat, but I don't think League is fit for that kind of mechanic. Too much of what they're doing is focused on making sure games can be finished faster. Not to mention, builds are already one dimensional, so it'd be redundant to risk having something new that forces every champion to one particular build to get the best out of a worst situation. It'd literally destroy what fun is left with the items in the game.

Funkin Dunkin1 votes

40m is fast?

realDRdeal1 votes

Considering I remember games used to routinely running 50+ minutes, yeah 40 minutes is fast. Hour long games were never really common, but they weren't as nearly unheard of as they are now.

AwesomeGuyDj1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Funkin Dunkin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fZfxKWMK,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-24T20:40:49.873+0000)

40m is fast?

Thats only in low elo. High tier games can consistently end at 20 min.

i cant move wtf9 votes

This is already handled by the fact that itemization is limited to 6 slots. If you get an item with no attack speed, that's one less slot you can use to put an item with attack speed. Duskblade is just strong atm, it's not a reason to completely rework all items in league.

LankPants6 votes

Imho this would make it possible to forbid certain classes (cough adcs cough) from abusing stats meant for other classes (cough lethality cough).

But in the one case where they've actually done this it hasn't. It's not uncommon for Bruisers to just build a Stoneplate anyway, and Stoneplate has a truly massive downside. I'm just not convinced that negatives on items even work.

Let's say we give Duskblade -40% AS, does that stop Jhin, MF or Lucian abusing it? Do they even care? Do these champs even rely on their attack speed? I don't think this would work anyway.

Duskblade's disgusting on Talon, Rengar and Kha'zix anyway. The item just needs straight nerfs.

SanKakU3 votes

Lower attack speed on Jhin massively affects his damage output, so yes, yes he would care. MF has an ability that gives her extra attack speed, but it also gives her extra movement speed and since a lot of people build around her ultimate, I guess she wouldn't care unless they made her ultimate somehow scale with attack speed.

Asayake 5150glow3 votes

{quoted}

Imho this would make it possible to forbid certain classes (cough adcs cough) from abusing stats meant for other classes (cough lethality cough).

For example, if item 3147 also reduced attack speed then it would be a terrible item for DPSers while retaining its value for assassins.

That's not true because it would suck for assassins as well, attackspeed matters for your auto attack animations, and many assassins rely on combo'ing smooth autos in between their abilities animations, so this would NOT be helpful.

SB Arneeman2 votes

If the items have downsides that means they need to have enough to compensate for it. Some champions will use the strengths of the item while not being held back by the downsides, and then it will be far too powerful for those champions.

Disulfiram2 votes

[{quoted}](name=SB Arneeman,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fZfxKWMK,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-24T12:49:38.635+0000)

If the items have downsides that means they need to have enough to compensate for it.

Only if your goal is to keep the item if not good at least viable for everyone, which is the polar opposite of what this suggestion is about (= setting indirect limits on who can use said item).

Jackom12 votes

Upvoted, but IIRC someone at rito said at some point (last year or a couple years ago) that they thought about this approach to items and in the end they didn't like it; they felt like it tended to narrow to much the choice of items champions have, without actually adding depth to the item builds.

Who knows, maybe they'll rethink about this option, but not this year at least.

One things I would like, is for some tank items but give good surivability at the cost of movement and/or attack speed.

makkii2 votes

I played around with this idea before for support items. Midlane mages have a history of getting picked as "mage supports" and nerfed in a way thats unfair to midlaners, so why not say make the GP5 items stronger support wise but slap an ap ratio inhibitor on them.

I Main Swain2 votes

imo rather than stuff like literal drawbacks such as reducing other stats, they should make items more specific rather than general, or very expensive, and there's also way too many items right now, so its incredibly easy to get whatever stats you want. you used to have to sacrifice damage for lots of cdr or attack speed, supports had to either get a lot of support items or be really tanky/deal solid damage, really powerful items like infinity edge were really expensive and took a long time to get. everything had some kind of drawback, be it sustain, damage, mana management, tankiness, etc. now though you can get stuff that gives you all sorts of great stats at relatively low costs and items have all these different unique actives and passives and interactions, honestly the old item system was totally fine just how it was, no changes necessary imo

rework trundle1 votes

If Duskblade gets that, every item should get it as well. BUT it's too much work until it's balanced where no champion out of the ~130 is absurdly broken. Great in theory though.

TimX24968B1 votes

I know a few that have downsides, but we all know what happens to those items:item 3056

A Bad Nasus1 votes

I think the specific answer you are looking for is -40% bonus attack speed, because less total attack speed can make weaving aa's in combos on some assassins and skirmishers feel horribly clunky and not worth it.

AirKingNeo1 votes

I'm glad ADCs aren't abusing lethality then and Duskblade is just broken in general.

invisiblecat11 votes

I don't think it should be a downside in a stat, via attack speed etc... But it should be like sunfire cape, where trying to attack the tower is impossible Doing something like making duskblade reduce attack speed would not fit I can't fully think of something that would do this for duskblade, except maybe it being able to proc on minions, that would you can't farm and the just assault the enemy This is what makes item 3134 more balanced with its new passive

Executioner1 votes

I cant help but never see it like this, adcs busing lethality? Sorry I can never see eye to eye with people that say that.

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