A slight boost to Wits End?

Evil Jester·Jan 2, 2017·8 votes·723 views

maybe make it so dealing magic damage procs the passive MR steal effect. sorta like an AP version of black cleaver. maybe make it so DOT effects can't proc it since there are so many AP champs that have DOT.

Thoughts?

37 Comments

Dominick DestineJan 2, 20172 votes

Wit's End does need a buff but I doubt that would be the solution.

Just lower the cost by a couple hundred gold and it'll be fine.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 2, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fVvQ2nwM,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-01-02T09:11:34.115+0000)

Wit's End does need a buff but I doubt that would be the solution.

Just lower the cost by a couple hundred gold and it'll be fine.

nope thats wits problem to begin with. its not slot efficient past early game.

Dominick DestineJan 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

nope thats wits problem to begin with. its not slot efficient past early game.

Perhaps it is not meant to be slot efficient past early game?

Not every item must be homogenized.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 2, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fVvQ2nwM,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-01-02T23:01:45.833+0000)

Perhaps it is not meant to be slot efficient past early game?

Not every item must be homogenized.

well that just doesn't work in league of legends does it? its not a starting item.

Dominick DestineJan 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

well that just doesn't work in league of legends does it? its not a starting item.

"It doesn't work in league of legends"? says who?

The game does not need to be homogenized, not all items need to be strong early and late.... an early game item would be reasonable if they cranked down the price tag.

LordGeovanniJan 3, 20171 votes

any body tell me 70 ad and a 1 in 5 chance to murder your enemy even harder than your would have is bad early or late game. you cant find a bad early adc item just that the blend early isnt as good as the blend later but still beats our other classes that arent mage or assassins if it isnt even to them

Dominick DestineJan 3, 20172 votes

{quoted}

any body tell me 70 ad and a 1 in 5 chance to murder your enemy even harder than your would have is bad early or late game. you cant find a bad early adc item

ADCs are specifically tailored to be strongest as late game characters and their itemization reflects this. The item you are describing is expensive and less effective early than late.

It's tedious that I have to explain this....

LordGeovanniJan 3, 20171 votes

And they are weak early game (only when compared to their late game selves any other role they come out on top.) not to mention that they have 'early game adcs' lucian and caitlyn supposedly. still didnt say 70 ad and a 1 in 5 chance to crit with the crit doing more damage than just a normal crit is bad early game though. adcs have the easiest time farming early each with a body guard in lane that has to be gotten through before going for the adc

LordGeovanniJan 3, 20171 votes

And adcs are supposed to be strong.... provided they are protected and maintain range they are supposed to out put damage over time to kill people instead of big bursts like they do where one crit takes 1/3 of the health of a balanced defense and offense fighter and about70% of the hp off of some one who isnt designed to build defense like and assassin or support mage.

Big LincolnJan 3, 20171 votes

He isn't wrong, though. If it were a lot cheaper it would make for a good early power spike that falls off later on

MunchCrunchLunchJan 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fVvQ2nwM,comment-id=00020000000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-03T00:55:28.172+0000)

He isn't wrong, though. If it were a lot cheaper it would make for a good early power spike that falls off later on

good. do that. and nobody will buy it. it fits with some kits like warwick. actually pretty much just warwick. and kayle. but most people ratherh ave items that fit with builds not kits. also. again nobody buys items that fall off. like wits end falls off not even late game. mid game

Big LincolnJan 3, 20171 votes

tank items fall off and they're pretty common

LordGeovanniJan 3, 20171 votes

the item has been made cheaper several times and still nobody buys it why? because its not late game efficent same reason no one touches item 1082 and item 3041 . unless you can guarentee snowball it isnt worth it to put gold into when you could just put gold into an item you will be keeping the whole game.

Dominick DestineJan 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

the item has been made cheaper several times and still nobody buys it why?

Because it's still way too expensive, that's why.

Reduce the combiine cost from 480 to 180 and you'll see people actually invest in it. It costs 2500 gold which is way too high, 2200 gold would be just right.

Irelia BotJan 2, 20172 votes

It didn't need to be slot efficient to be considered core on a lot more then just WW with a side of Teemo and Kayle in season 2.

It was a really good power boost for the price back then for a lot of fighters who auto a lot.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 2, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fVvQ2nwM,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-01-02T23:12:03.444+0000)

It didn't need to be slot efficient to be considered core on a lot more then just WW with a side of Teemo and Kayle in season 2.

It was a really good power boost for the price back then for a lot of fighters who auto a lot.

well. if you need MR and damage on a fighter. you go maw. its 100% better at 100% of the time. even warwick would rather have tank items. it can work on warwick. .but it isn't as good as devourer was on him unfortunately.

Irelia BotJan 2, 20171 votes

I still would rather have season 2 wit's to provide me some magic damage on hit. Some lane opponents stack armor and there is not much I can do about that with a hex drinker.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 3, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fVvQ2nwM,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-02T23:44:21.031+0000)

I still would rather have season 2 wit's to provide me some magic damage on hit. Some lane opponents stack armor and there is not much I can do about that with a hex drinker.

you get black cleaver for that on fighters. 40 damage on hit. probbly like 30 after the penetration. isn't going to kill anyone or put a dent in anything. i built it on master yi the other day. I did 2k magic damage out of 40k. 2k with wits end. not fucking worth it. I'd just buy a black cleaver for armor stacking champs. or hell. botrk is better.

LordGeovanniJan 3, 20172 votes

back then it gave the second most attack speed in the game and was paired with the item with the most attack speed and had 2 extra damage (worst nerf to item was changeing damage and attack speed) to which over time adds up per attack.

RebonackJan 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fVvQ2nwM,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-01-02T23:12:03.444+0000)

It didn't need to be slot efficient to be considered core on a lot more then just WW with a side of Teemo and Kayle in season 2.

It was a really good power boost for the price back then for a lot of fighters who auto a lot.

I'm still a pretty big fan of turning it into a component item that builds into some stronger OnHit stuff for the late game. Closer to an equivalent of Maw, except for attack speed.

item 1057 item 1043 for basically just the old Wit's, no MR shred. Then combine with another to upgrade into either a %HP damage option or a %MR shred option.

Titanium70Jan 3, 20171 votes

I dont think so...

I guess allowing it to be stacked on magic DMG would 'fix' the problem... However not fixing the problem of WE being a bad item but fixing the problem of having noone in the entire game who builds it.

Let's think about which Champs would buy WE? Kayle ? building MR if have this R? Works, but not really efficient. KogMaw ? once again.. defense on a carry is 'meh' at best. espcially such special kind of defense. Jax OK.. he deals some magic DMG... but enough to justify this... not really, maybe against heavy AP team - but it's getting warm. Teemo Uses AA, good. Deals mostly magic DMG, good. needs AP for scalings.... 'meh'! there are better Items! Chogath Uses AA, good. Deals mostly magic DMG, good. Wants MR, good! Just wants to eat people with a True DMG ult.... MMMEEEHHHH!... (And is looking for lategame which is not really a great experience if you have non-slot effecient item in your inventory... sigh...) He can build it! I did it a few times. Never felt bad.. but never felt good as well...

Sorry, I cant find the Champ using every aspect of WE... most Champs that come to my mind makeing better use of item 3115 .

There was one.. once who got both magic AS Items.

AP Varus - for him being played at mid, that was the perfect Item. Desperately needing as much M.Pen and AS he can get. to blow Up people with a 3 stack Ult. Makes use of the MR as well since... mid lane.

But the downfall of AP-Itemization and the removal of DFG made him unviable - sadly.

So who would get it after the suggested change?... Against an AD Team? noone. Against an AP Team? Well... I was wrong... still noone would draw much profit out of this team. You either need to AA before your Spells, those spells need to deal magic DMG, you this Magic DMG needs to be base-DMG and not scaling DMG. Or you need to throw spells before deal magic DMG with AAs... would still be my number 1 choices. Just a little more than before.

Guess we need to rebuild this item from scratch....

Throwing in a random Idea: Instead of Flat On-Hit, a scaling On-Hit Dot (scales with Level or AP, or w/e) which ticks for one or two seconds. Flat = weak because balanced for 2.5 AS and early game. Allow spells to stack the passive. as suggested. Get rid of MR! Permanent item made Resistances are for Tanks. Much bonus AS not. Add AP, HP, MS or just AS. +100% AS? anyone?

MAYBE... convert the stolen MR into something else? Not necessary - getting beefy as long as you fighting AAing sounds not to bad for squishys as well.

With those Changes I can see Wit's End on TwistedFate Orianna Cassiopeia Zyra Kennen and the obvious candidates. ^^

Dominick DestineJan 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I dont think so... I guess allowing it to be stacked on magic DMG would 'fix' the problem... However not fixing the problem of WE being a bad item but fixing the problem of having noone in the entire game who builds it. Let's think about which Champs would buy WE? ? building MR if have this R? Works, but not really efficient. ? once again.. defense on a carry is 'meh' at best. espcially such special kind of defense. OK.. he deals some magic DMG... but enough to justify this... not really, maybe against heavy AP team - but it's getting warm. Uses AA, good. Deals mostly magic DMG, good. needs AP for scalings.... 'meh'! there are better Items! Uses AA, good. Deals mostly magic DMG, good. Wants MR, good! Just wants to eat people with a True DMG ult.... MMMEEEHHHH!... (And is looking for lategame which is not really a great experience if you have non-slot effecient item in your inventory... sigh...) He can build it! I did it a few times. Never felt bad.. but never felt good as well... Sorry, I cant find the Champ using every aspect of WE... most Champs that come to my mind makeing better use of .There was one.. once who got both magic AS Items. AP - for him being played at mid, that was the perfect Item. Desperately needing as much M.Pen and AS he can get. to blow Up people with a 3 stack Ult. Makes use of the MR as well since... mid lane. But the downfall of AP-Itemization and the removal of DFG made him unviable - sadly. So who would get it after the suggested change?... Against an AD Team? noone. Against an AP Team? Well... I was wrong... still noone would draw much profit out of this team. You either need to AA before your Spells, those spells need to deal magic DMG, you this Magic DMG needs to be base-DMG and not scaling DMG. Or you need to throw spells before deal magic DMG with AAs... would still be my number 1 choices. Just a little more than before. Guess we need to rebuild this item from scratch.... Throwing in a random Idea: Instead of Flat On-Hit, a scaling On-Hit Dot (scales with Level or AP, or w/e) which ticks for one or two seconds. Flat = weak because balanced for 2.5 AS and early game. Allow spells to stack the passive. as suggested. Get rid of MR! Permanent item made Resistances are for Tanks. Much bonus AS not. Add AP, HP, MS or just AS. +100% AS? anyone? MAYBE... convert the stolen MR into something else? Not necessary - getting beefy as long as you fighting AAing sounds not to bad for squishys as well. With those Changes I can see Wit's End on and the obvious candidates. ^^

I used to build it on Evelynn after Abyssal Scepter prior to the Abyssal Scepter nerfs when facing AP heavy teams (obviously).

You raise a good point in that it went from a niche item to a nearly unusable item, I would say after the Abyssal Scepter nerfs it stopped being a niche item.

AstroFerrari Jan 2, 20171 votes

I like this. The item would actually see some use outside of AP bruisers and cheese builds.

PureSilvrrJan 2, 20171 votes

Is TwistedFate item 3085 item 3091 item 3124 item 3072 item 3153 item 3094 a cheese build?

Irelia BotJan 2, 20171 votes

only if it comes with brea

Irelia BotJan 2, 20171 votes

You mean teemo, kayle and WW.

I don't even see Shyvana or Udyr build it anymore.

LordGeovanniJan 3, 20171 votes

by cheese build you mean all in champions actually fighting all over time in like they are meant to

Elite4RunnerJan 2, 20171 votes

Would be good on Azir

I'm not sure if that is a good or a bad thing.

LordGeovanniJan 3, 20171 votes

i have been thankful from his release that he usually cant fluidly make use of wits end. as one of the few wits end users at that time

Irelia BotJan 2, 20171 votes

Or perhaps do one of these

2000 cost Unique: 42 on hit magic damage 30 MR 42% attack speed Auto attacks increase your MR by 3 stacking up to 4 times lasting for 5 seconds.

FYI this is fairly close to what it was in season 2 and it was bought a lot more back then.

Another option would be make it have actually useful stats for mroe then just WW, teemo kayle and a couple others who don't bother because there are better optiosn open to them.

Aegis of the Legion + recurve Bow 2700 gold 42% attack speed 30 armor 30 MR Unique: 42 on hit magic damage Unique- LAMENT Auto attacks reduce damage from the last target you hit by 3% stacking up to 4 times for 5 seconds (max damage reduction of 12%)

FYI having this with Hurricane would mean you never get above one stack when dealing damage to more then one enemy champ.

LordGeovanniJan 3, 20171 votes

I dont really want wits end to proc out side of auto attacks because thats what they intended it for for melee ap fighters and melee fighters it needs a slight boost to its damage scaleing late game and maybe health on it. 200-300

Akali is SO HOTJan 3, 20171 votes

42 magic damage on hit

Evil JesterJan 3, 20171 votes

maybe it just needs a rework, ditch the 42 magic damage passive, keep the MR steal passive and give it similar stats to BC except for AP?

item 3091 Wits End

50 AP 300 HP 20% CoolDown ** Passive: Abilities that deal Magic damage will steal 5 MR on hit (does not work on DOT effects)** or maybe add a cool down

Stats my very from this, but you get the concept

Akali is SO HOTJan 3, 20171 votes

It must keep the 42 meme at all costs.

LordGeovanniJan 3, 20171 votes

42 magic damage arent you living in a good time. the thing is mages dont need another mr shread item ap scales hella high mr is very shit hp on tank items is hella shit and Abyssal does the same job just by standing around (it no longer removes mr but magic damage is increased diffrent method to the same result. Wits end is intended for fighters give it to fighters put some hp on top of the stats it already has and raise the magic damage. Idk why people keep trying to give mages more health they scale better base hp than fighters and maybe tanks and their items have as much hp as fighter/ tank items but they also have high ap and range. that is why Rylias was a problem and ROA before that and it didnt get fixed like rylias did. they either need to lower hp on mage items or make hp on tank and fighter items higher but they nerfed tank and fighter items because adcs were abuseing them.

JefftiffyJan 3, 20171 votes

I guess my Tankmo using Wit's End is bad. Even though I tend to dominate with it. item 3115 item 3068 item 3091 item 3102 item 3151 + situational boots. Still kills squishies. Lives through fights. Is annoying is all hell. But apparently Wit's End is bad item yet it makes the build so good.

Kirius DarkJan 3, 20171 votes

I dont know who would even use it. There's better options for on hit champs, and with your proposed changes there really isnt any mage caster who wants to fast auto