Please give Caits traps a longer delay before activating

Evil Jester·Feb 14, 2017·34 votes·1,947 views

It's hard enough as is to get to her with her dodgenet, but those traps are pretty much point click stuns anytime you try to go in on her. I thought they were supposed be be like a defence to fall back on? I'm sick of trying to go in on a cait, only to have them pop a trap under my feet so I can just sit there and die.

It's one thing to run to a bush and hit a trap that was well placed or failing to cross a minefield of them, it's another thing when I catch her off guard at low HP only for her to lay a trap under my feet when I dive her so she can proc her auto passive and I die going in on her at full health.

Im sure there are champions that can deal with her traps but I just think popping one under my feet for an near insta root is kinda unfair, especially when you have an escape ability already.

49 Comments

The Lost MarblesFeb 14, 20176 votes

Meanwhile, I'm not sure why her traps cause her Headshots to deal even MORE damage.

I mean, her Headshots already deal a good chunk of bonus damage. Then her traps add an extra 30 / 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 (+70% AD) to that shot that can come in from up to 1300 range away.

If you step on a trap and Caitlyn with an IE crits you, you take 395% AD physical damage.

ReZisT LustFeb 14, 20172 votes

When the person is removing the trap from their feet they bend over and get hit in the head lol

Unreformed ShacoFeb 14, 20176 votes

It is 1.1 seconds.

Get good and move.

Evil JesterFeb 14, 20174 votes

{quoted}

It is 1.1 seconds.

Get good and move.

yeah but its hard to know that it was placed to begin with when your face to face with her and she planted i right under your feet, half the time you can't even see it.

Unreformed ShacoFeb 14, 20176 votes

You can tell by her animation and the sound it makes.

Evil JesterFeb 14, 20175 votes

{quoted}

You can tell by her animation and the sound it makes.

It's almost identical to her net dodge animation, and the sound doesn't go off till after it's primed for root and with all the other sounds in the game going off it's so easy to dismiss and not notice. At the very least there could be more clarity when the trap is being dropped under you to give you a chance to get away

ZT XperimentorFeb 14, 20172 votes

She can just throw another trap under you after you've stepped on one, basically giving her multiple free headshots while keeping you permarooted. What outplay is there to that?

The Lost MarblesFeb 14, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZPM1KzPt,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2017-02-14T16:56:43.975+0000)

She can just throw another trap under you after you've stepped on one, basically giving her multiple free headshots while keeping you permarooted. What outplay is there to that?

Enemy champions who step on a trap set it off, rooting them for 2 seconds, during which they take increased damage from Headshot, grant true sight of themselves for 9 seconds, and become immune to Yordle Snap Traps for 4 seconds while they remain in the area.

Evil JesterFeb 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Enemy champions who step on a trap set it off, rooting them for 2 seconds, during which they take increased damage from Headshot, grant true sight of themselves for 9 seconds, and become immune to Yordle Snap Traps for 4 seconds while they remain in the area.

Too bad she still has a net that lets her proc her auto passive again while letting her remain at a safe distance and slowing you by 50% withc gives her plenty of time for that immunity to where off to drop another trap by the time you get close enough to her

rinse and repeat

AFilthyCaitMainFeb 14, 20173 votes

As someone maining Caitlyn at this moment, I have some input on this. The thing is, is that its very hard for her to land her traps correctly, so you have to constantly be moving in random directions and be watchful of where youre going. She can only hold so many at a time as well. Her traps are also the main reason shes ACTUALLY useful. So maybe a nerf might be needed, but in my eyes, they're very hard to land in the first place so a nerf would just harm her as a champion.

Evil JesterFeb 14, 20173 votes

{quoted}

As someone maining Caitlyn at this moment, I have some input on this. The thing is, is that its very hard for her to land her traps correctly, so you have to constantly be moving in random directions and be watchful of where youre going. She can only hold so many at a time as well. Her traps are also the main reason shes ACTUALLY useful. So maybe a nerf might be needed, but in my eyes, they're very hard to land in the first place so a nerf would just harm her as a champion.

I have mastery 5 on her, and yeah moving back and forth might help if you have some distance, but when you are face to face with her with a melee type champion as close as you can get in her face you can't exactly run around her, half the time you can't even see her drop the trap under you so you don't know to get away before it procs. thats how she gets you. That's my issue with it.

Yosuke ApperuFeb 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

As someone maining Caitlyn at this moment, I have some input on this. The thing is, is that its very hard for her to land her traps correctly, so you have to constantly be moving in random directions and be watchful of where youre going. She can only hold so many at a time as well. Her traps are also the main reason shes ACTUALLY useful. So maybe a nerf might be needed, but in my eyes, they're very hard to land in the first place so a nerf would just harm her as a champion.

She can hold 5 and drop them without CD no?

OHminusFeb 15, 20173 votes

Traps have a 1.1 sec activation time. If you literally move during the animation it won't snare you.

Evil JesterFeb 15, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Traps have a 1.1 sec activation time. If you literally move during the animation it won't snare you.

i've covered this IDK how many times now.

you can hardly see it when she plants it right under you when your trying to get into her face. its even harder to see when you are playing larger champions.

OHminusFeb 15, 20172 votes

Then you're just bad.

The animation is really obvious, and besides, you can strafe to dodge trap placements. Really not that hard.

Chain cc-ing her traps with other cc is pretty annoying but if you're walking into traps then what you're doing right here is a stupid reason to QQ

WolfessFeb 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Then you're just bad.

The animation is really obvious, and besides, you can strafe to dodge trap placements. Really not that hard.

Chain cc-ing her traps with other cc is pretty annoying but if you're walking into traps then what you're doing right here is a stupid reason to QQ

so what do you do when she literally walls off an entire section of the lane with traps to the point where you cannot even get to her tower because traps block the entire walkable path.

OHminusFeb 15, 20171 votes

Then she has no traps to chain cc you with, nor prevent ganks.

Good! Now you can punish her for spending her traps just for the purpose of zoning you off her turret and let the lane freeze in your favor, where your jungler can come and gank. It's not like 90 percent of Caits push like braindead monkeys, right? (kappa)

WolfessFeb 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Then she has no traps to chain cc you with, nor prevent ganks.

Good! Now you can punish her for spending her traps just for the purpose of zoning you off her turret and let the lane freeze in your favor, where your jungler can come and gank. It's not like 90 percent of Caits push like braindead monkeys, right? (kappa)

you haven't fought a cait that knows what she's doing then.

OHminusFeb 15, 20171 votes

Yea, because in lower elos, caits don't know what the hell they're doing.

In lower elos, traps aren't the problem - the runaan's clearing + crit aa's are what get people.

Considering a vast majority of the league playerbase is in bronze-low plat, cait's traps shouldn't be a problem unless you're walking right into them. Honestly, the cait circlejerk is just so huge and unjustified to the point where I can't even understand the hate.

Evil JesterFeb 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yea, because in lower elos, caits don't know what the hell they're doing.

In lower elos, traps aren't the problem - the runaan's clearing + crit aa's are what get people.

Considering a vast majority of the league playerbase is in bronze-low plat, cait's traps shouldn't be a problem unless you're walking right into them. Honestly, the cait circlejerk is just so huge and unjustified to the point where I can't even understand the hate.

this is why we read the comments.

[{quoted}](name=Evil Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZPM1KzPt,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-15T04:12:54.749+0000) And dodging the traps while walking toward her ISN'T THE ISSUE, the issue is when she spams traps under your feet when you are already in her face trying to kill her to save herself, thats what her net is for. I have said this multiple times now.

Evil JesterFeb 15, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Then you're just bad.

The animation is really obvious, and besides, you can strafe to dodge trap placements. Really not that hard.

Again, covered this already. Strafing around the traps already placed IS NOT THE DAMN ISSUE the issue is when you are already up in her face, after you saw her use her net, after you already dodged the already placed traps. and she drops it under your feet, WHERE YOU CAN NOT SEE IT.

oh and did I mention she can CANCLE the trap animation with her Q?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCI6oNXyOMc

OHminusFeb 15, 20172 votes

Funny. I've never had an instance where I could not react to the traps because I couldn't see it (unless the trap was at the end of an unwarded bush)

You do realize that if you turn sounds on that the sound of the trap arming should alert you to the fact that she's placing a trap?

Jesus, you're creating reasons to QQ now. Cait's not even that busted, nor that annoying to play against.

Evil JesterFeb 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Funny. I've never had an instance where I could not react to the traps because I couldn't see it (unless the trap was at the end of an unwarded bush)

You do realize that if you turn sounds on that the sound of the trap arming should alert you to the fact that she's placing a trap?

Jesus, you're creating reasons to QQ now. Cait's not even that busted, nor that annoying to play against.

(facepalm) okay i'm done dignifying you with replies to repeat myself a 3rd time, go back and read the comments because I already covered sounds too.

Shaco PsychoFeb 14, 20172 votes

This sounds like it was written by someone who keeps getting **outplayed ** by caits. As a cait main, her traps are my favorite mechanic and they are by no means instant or even close to that. If you have any sense of what's going on around you in fights, you should be able to get around them. A good cait player won't make it easy, but it's completely possible.

SeaGodUrronuosFeb 14, 20174 votes

W...... WHAT AN OUTPLAY

Shaco PsychoFeb 14, 20171 votes

If they manage to get you with it under tower then yes it is. Just like any other champion.... For example Ahri E when you try to dive her under tower. Like come on, if you can dodge an ahri e, then it should be a piece of cake to dodge a trap. Otherwise, you gotta practice your mechanics.

Pathfinder YasuoFeb 14, 20172 votes

lmfao do you know what an outplay is???????????

Shaco PsychoFeb 14, 20171 votes

Yes, clearly I do. Do you? Please, by all means, define outplay to me.

Pathfinder YasuoFeb 14, 20172 votes

pressing W under somebody isnt an outplay lmfao

holy shit i landed my binding as morgana!!11!1!1!!!

OUTPLAYED

http://plays.tv/video/57afdcef53d7438ecd/urgot-outplay?from=user

urgot has better outplays

Evil JesterFeb 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

This sounds like it was written by someone who keeps getting **outplayed ** by caits. As a cait main, her traps are my favorite mechanic and they are by no means instant or even close to that. If you have any sense of what's going on around you in fights, you should be able to get around them. A good cait player won't make it easy, but it's completely possible.

Dropping five traps under your opponent's feet for auto buffs is not an outplay. Outplaying is strategic. With cait an outplay would be running into a bush where she already has it loaded with traps and I walk into them because I fell for a bait.

There's nothing strategic about dropping traps under your opponent's feet in 1v1 to proc your auto passive, thats what her net is for. That's like saying Vladimir landed his Q is being outplayed.

NipsahoyFeb 14, 20172 votes

Caitlyn is fine stop crying.

Evil JesterFeb 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Caitlyn is fine stop crying.

Practice what you preach

Can diver champions do less dmg plz - by Nipsahoy

RexSaurFeb 15, 20172 votes

Do you even play this game?

Cait isnt even being played that much, ppl are spamming jhin and varus now.

Caitlyn has to build crit so shes not as good as those 2, stop complaining about a non S tier adc and go complain about jhin if you want to complain an actual overpowered one.

Evil JesterFeb 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Do you even play this game?

Cait isnt even being played that much, ppl are spamming jhin and varus now.

Caitlyn has to build crit so shes not as good as those 2, stop complaining about a non S tier adc and go complain about jhin if you want to complain an actual overpowered one.

Cait is not reliant on Crit, she gets a headshot every 6 autos, 3 if from a bush, every time you hit a trap, and every time you land your net.

and I hate to pull this card but judging from your cait FEK avatar I'm gonna assume you main her. Most people defending her in this thread so far have openly stated they main her. The fact that ONLY CAIT MAINS ARE DEFENDING HER so far in this thread is only proving my point.

Cookimonster316Feb 15, 20175 votes

She is very reliant on crit because she has to build IE and runaans to actually function in the late game. Plus runaans makes the headshot come up more often and critting makes her headshot do more damage.

The delay on the trap isn't the problem because they are easy to dodge when walking towards her.

(PS not a caitlyn main)

Evil JesterFeb 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

She is very reliant on crit because she has to build IE and runaans to actually function in the late game. Plus runaans makes the headshot come up more often and critting makes her headshot do more damage.

The delay on the trap isn't the problem because they are easy to dodge when walking towards her.

(PS not a caitlyn main)

Her building runans has to do with it's passive, not crit, and any ADC could use and benefit from IE, it's a versatile luxury item for any ADC

And dodging the traps while walking toward her ISN'T THE ISSUE, the issue is when she spams traps under your feet when you are already in her face trying to kill her to save herself, thats what her net is for. I have said this multiple times now.

btw how was that 4/1/3 cait game you played? you may not main her but your match history says you play her alot along with MF as your ADC of choice.

Cookimonster316Feb 15, 20175 votes

I'm pretty sure she is reliant on crit because her damage is just autos and crit complements that. I don't see how she is not crit based because it amplifies her damage so much. If she is not crit based can you give me a popular Caitlyn build that consistently wins with < 50% crit?

Don't get me wrong I hate her as a champion, but I don't think the trap arm time is the problem, more so the amount of traps you can have. If you could only have 2 her spamming them would not be as annoying but her spamming 5 can be ridiculous. I'm pretty sure she is reliant on crit because her damage is just autos and crit complements that. I don't see how she is not crit based because it amplifies her damage so much.

I play her alot? I have 5 games this season. That one 4/1/3 game was because my support literally said they would troll if I picked Jhin, and I suck at MF. MF and Caitlyn are easy so I pick them when I get the role, because it is my secondary role. Last season I did have 20 games on her but that was mostly because she was OP. If you go to OP.GG and custom search for Caitlyn you can see I have 2 games in the past month (not counting a single bot game). Don't say I play her a lot because of one recent game. You may call me a meta slave though because I am.

Evil JesterFeb 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm pretty sure she is reliant on crit because her damage is just autos and crit complements that. I don't see how she is not crit based because it amplifies her damage so much. If she is not crit based can you give me a popular Caitlyn build that consistently wins with < 50% crit?

Don't get me wrong I hate her as a champion, but I don't think the trap arm time is the problem, more so the amount of traps you can have. If you could only have 2 her spamming them would not be as annoying but her spamming 5 can be ridiculous. I'm pretty sure she is reliant on crit because her damage is just autos and crit complements that. I don't see how she is not crit based because it amplifies her damage so much.

I play her alot? I have 5 games this season. That one 4/1/3 game was because my support literally said they would troll if I picked Jhin, and I suck at MF. MF and Caitlyn are easy so I pick them when I get the role, because it is my secondary role. Last season I did have 20 games on her but that was mostly because she was OP. If you go to OP.GG and custom search for Caitlyn you can see I have 2 games in the past month (not counting a single bot game). Don't say I play her a lot because of one recent game. You may call me a meta slave though because I am.

you don't play her alot because your play more in other roles, i can see this on your match history, when you do get ADC you pick her or MF. you only have a few games because you don't play ADC that often.

and as for builds without crit, what ADC in this game doesn't utilise crit in there build in some way? all ADC's use crit, some more than others.

Look if you don't agree with me then what ever man, but I have made some very valid points on the subject and judging from the upvote counts, more would agree that the Traps could use some adjustment. I'm not saying we nerf the shit out of her, or even reduce damage AT ALL, but there needs to be a way to punish her for her mistakes. Killing at range is her asset but if im able to get in her face when shes low on HP despite other traps laying around and her dodge net, only to have her exploit the size of my character by dropping a trap under my feet and ether run or "crit me to death" there's no counterplay around that.

Cookimonster316Feb 16, 20175 votes

You should be happy that I'm arguing with you, I mean your argument sounds much better now. Hence why I am asking questions so you can defend your point more. Now I can understand more where you are coming from, however I will never agree on increasing trap arm time, but rather make less traps available so when you get in her face she will likely only have 1 trap rather than 4. I mostly fear that increasing the arm time will just make it impossible to use when combo'd with CC, therefore nerfing her a bit too hard.

Caitlyn is centered around crit because it complements her kit so much while no other form of build can ever compete. There is no reason to build anything other than it such as triforce or lethality which are the other ADC options that don't use crit. As for all ADCs utilizing crit, Ezreal rarely has needed crit since the triforce changes. The armor pen builds didn't utilize crit and some of the lethality builds don't.

I don't play her alot because I don't like playing her in this meta. My go to for ADC is MF and Jhin, however I barely get ADC so I can see why you think Cait is a go to. But the one time I have played her recently was not my choice, and the normals game was because I wanted to see how it worked with Nunu.

PS. For an argument's sake don't say: "well more people agree with me" because 1. The boards is a veeeeeery small part of the playerbase and 2. Ya know people who argued that the world was flat, at a time more people thought that, but that doesn't make it right.

Evil JesterFeb 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You should be happy that I'm arguing with you, I mean your argument sounds much better now. Hence why I am asking questions so you can defend your point more. Now I can understand more where you are coming from, however I will never agree on increasing trap arm time, but rather make less traps available so when you get in her face she will likely only have 1 trap rather than 4. I mostly fear that increasing the arm time will just make it impossible to use when combo'd with CC, therefore nerfing her a bit too hard.

Caitlyn is centered around crit because it complements her kit so much while no other form of build can ever compete. There is no reason to build anything other than it such as triforce or lethality which are the other ADC options that don't use crit. As for all ADCs utilizing crit, Ezreal rarely has needed crit since the triforce changes. The armor pen builds didn't utilize crit and some of the lethality builds don't.

I don't play her alot because I don't like playing her in this meta. My go to for ADC is MF and Jhin, however I barely get ADC so I can see why you think Cait is a go to. But the one time I have played her recently was not my choice, and the normals game was because I wanted to see how it worked with Nunu.

PS. For an argument's sake don't say: "well more people agree with me" because 1. The boards is a veeeeeery small part of the playerbase and 2. Ya know people who argued that the world was flat, at a time more people thought that, but that doesn't make it right.

reducing it wouldn't help much because really she could just save one in her kit at all times for the occasion of getting face mauled and thats the real problem with her.

as far at the crit argument if you honestly feel it's so reliant (i still don't agree) they could add something else to proc her passive, make it happen a little more with less autos, or even increase its damage for compensation for a little more delay. I really don't care, the damage isn't the core issue here, it's the fact it this exploit makes her to hard to touch as a high damage high ranged champion. And as far as not being able to CC combo, you're not wrong, but I'm okay with that because I feel like an high range ADC shouldn't be able to stun lock like that. That's why you have a support, to CC for you so you can capitalise on his CC with your damage.

And for the earth argument, majority of the world no longer believes the world is flat anymore because people made some valid points and brought evidence forth to make them question that theory, and later proved it wrong. So if you were bringing up some good points and proving me wrong on here im pretty a lot more people would be hopping aboard that bandwagon even if the boards don't represent the whole player base.

Cookimonster316Feb 16, 20175 votes

Reducing the amount would help because she can't just spam them and would have to use them smartly. If it was really a huge problem with the delay time than yes it should be reduced, but I have never had any huge problems with it. Let's say she can only hold a max of 2 traps, She uses one in lane and one while you are running at her, but it is only one so you can keep chasing. It would be as fair as a Morgana, because you would only have one snare to worry about, but if she has 2 you have to play more strategically. With a slower arm time this would make it useless to store cait traps or play smart at all. If you are face to face with her you can simply just continue moving between attacks, so you don't step on a trap. One question though: What number would you change the delay time to balance it?

My main problem with removing the CC lock with Caitlyn is that it would remove a mechanic from her kit, she is already boring as it is, but making her just an auto attack machine would make her so boring. That doesn't sound good gameplay wise though, so lets just say it would make her pretty garbage, or more annoying to play against due to compensation buffs.

Evil JesterFeb 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Reducing the amount would help because she can't just spam them and would have to use them smartly. If it was really a huge problem with the delay time than yes it should be reduced, but I have never had any huge problems with it. Let's say she can only hold a max of 2 traps, She uses one in lane and one while you are running at her, but it is only one so you can keep chasing. It would be as fair as a Morgana, because you would only have one snare to worry about, but if she has 2 you have to play more strategically. With a slower arm time this would make it useless to store cait traps or play smart at all. If you are face to face with her you can simply just continue moving between attacks, so you don't step on a trap. One question though: What number would you change the delay time to balance it?

My main problem with removing the CC lock with Caitlyn is that it would remove a mechanic from her kit, she is already boring as it is, but making her just an auto attack machine would make her so boring. That doesn't sound good gameplay wise though, so lets just say it would make her pretty garbage, or more annoying to play against due to compensation buffs.

That would kinda bring her back the the old caitlyn, I mean I never really had this issue with the old one, but she also had only 3 traps and a 6 sec CD on each placement. I could settle for a semi revert like they had to do with KogMaw .

And the CC lock thing I mean even if the delay was increased, your team can still cap on your CC, you just couldn't cap on theirs with them.

Cookimonster316Feb 16, 20171 votes

That's kinda what I'm going at, keep the headshot proc on traps and net hits but get rid of the absurd amount of traps.

Evil JesterFeb 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's kinda what I'm going at, keep the headshot proc on traps and net hits but get rid of the absurd amount of traps.

I might be able to live with that.....

ProfirixFeb 15, 20172 votes

I just have an issue with layered CC in her case. Any champion with a hard cc gives cait a free headshot on top of the root from a trap just by her dropping a trap at your feet. Its unavoidable damage at that point, and given how hard it hits, its usually a sure-fire kill.

Evil JesterFeb 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Blame Adam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZPM1KzPt,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-02-15T06:28:26.137+0000)

I just have an issue with layered CC in her case. Any champion with a hard cc gives cait a free headshot on top of the root from a trap just by her dropping a trap at your feet. Its unavoidable damage at that point, and given how hard it hits, its usually a sure-fire kill.

That too, like a Warwick suppress or Yasuo ulti. Just drops it right under you for a stunlockfordayz combo.

ReZisT LustFeb 14, 20171 votes

I can imagine them adding time to the delay while giving it a little bit more throw distance lol

Evil JesterFeb 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=ReZisT Lust,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZPM1KzPt,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-02-14T23:59:20.941+0000)

I can imagine them adding time to the delay while giving it a little bit more throw distance lol

I would be okay with this, or even just a minimum distance it HAS to be thrown without the delay would be okay. I just think a champion with as much range as her shouldn't be as dangerous once you get close to her

I mean if you look at champions like Xerath for example, he has intimidating range and high damage, but can be countered by closing in on him. He has his stun, but the duration is shorter the closer you are to him, and there's a chance to dodge it entirely and he is forced to wait on CD.

Maybe make caits traps root duration shorter the sooner it was planted, and as compensation make the root last longer if the traps been sitting there a while. I think that would be great because when I play cait this would help for those times when they proc a trap and i'm just a few units short of landing my passive on them.

ReZisT LustFeb 15, 20171 votes

i think a static root duration is what keeps her alive when she gets ganked tho especially for when she gets ganked, and instead have the reverse where the longew its out the shorter it is like a cupcake going stale