I'm calling it here: Knight's Vow is HAWT GAABAGE. Don't buy it over Locket. (Using actual logic)

chipndip1··5 votes·2,060 views

Why? Let's think of it like this:

item 3109 passively reduces damage by 12% for someone you tether to and gives you 12% life steal from enemies damaged by your partner. For every 100 damage suffered by your designated ally, you passively remove 12 of it from your ally and take it yourself as true damage after mitigation. Meanwhile you gain 12 hp for every 100 damage dealt by your partner.

item 3190 gives an aoe decaying shield that grows in strength as you level up in the game.

Most supports are primarily concerned with protecting carry champs...usually a marksman but sometimes apcs or carry junglers (maybe even hard carrying top laners). If a support buys this, odds are it's going on a marksman in most instances, right? So for every 100 damage your marksman takes after mitigation, you take 12 of that as true damage and let your adc bypass that damage while he tries to heal you back up by landing hits (remember...12 hp per 100 damage dealt). Meanwhile Locket's an aoe shield every 90 seconds.

So let's look at the hp of a marksman by level 18. Say...eh...Jhin, the bot lane marksman with the highest level 18 HP (unless I missed someone) at 1985. Assuming he didn't build a Cleaver or a Randuin's or whatever, Jhin can take 2223 damage before dying assuming you linked him up to a Knight's Vow + you have a decently healthy HP bar. That's about 238 more health value from his original max health. Locket, on the other hand, can take UP TO TRIPLE THIS PER PERSON AROUND YOU AT LEVEL 18 INCLUDING YOU YOURSELF so long as you don't misfire on accident. So this item blocks more damage on Jhin than Knight's Vow does off the bat on top of protecting more people.

But we're not done yet. Locket also synergizes with heal/shield multipliers, so that 665 at level 18 with just Redemption gains an extra 65 shield power per 10% heal/shield multiplier you have up to 50% (in accordance to the max amount you can have in the game). Just Redemption can get 665 to over 700, but all of them at once gets nearly 1k shielding PER HEAD by just pressing Locket. Meanwhile Knight's Vow is still applying true damage to you to allow your Jhin to survive only 238 more incoming damage. Any more and he dies. To boot, he only gives you back 12% of his damage dealt after mitigation as well.

So why use Knight's Vow over Locket when you get more value by just paying attention to incoming projectiles and then pressing a button? Some people tell me that Knight's Vow is actually "really good", but when you have this in the back of your mind, I can't see how you'd get to that conclusion. If you can HONESTLY make a strong case for why you'd build Knight's Vow over Locket knowing this info, please do tell.

17 Comments

Big Lincoln2 votes

knight's vow is way better to bind with durable champions like juggernauts and divers (and some of the carries like Jax and Fiora), especially juggerauts actually since the majority of them are also AOE damage monsters and your healing isn't diminished by them having AoE. also the heal you get from them doing damage can be multiplied by Visage and I'm pretty sure the redemp/censer multipliers raise it as well.

not saying you're wrong, KV isn't worth picking up when you have such stronger items (that are 100-200g cheaper, too) but it has a scenario where it's pretty good and as someone who plays a lot of juggernauts it makes me very happy when my support can afford to buy it for me.

chipndip11 votes

Do they actually put it on you though?

Big Lincoln1 votes

not as often as I'd like them to item 3070

i think there's two issues with why it's kind of difficult; marksmen are always the mandatory 'carry' group and have been for a long time, so people are inclined to put everything on them if they can; and juggernauts are usually relegated to being secondary carries or peeling for the marksman, so even if it's mathematically way better to put KV on a juggernaut, most supports will prioritize the ADC. especially because some ADCs will get mad if you don't

if I play taric with someone like Darius though he's always the one I put it on.

Spoofghoul1 votes

I buy it on a ludicrously hard to kill motehrfucker

lets say im playing sion with a ton of hp and a ton of regen built including knighvow ofc

then i throw this knightsvow on my ally vladimir or darius or other ''juggernaut''

because, it makes them really hard to kill and since they are more tanky chances are people will try to take out someone else first but if they do hit them i take less damage then if i put it on our Jhin for example

Meanwhile because these fat asses get even more bulky and thus harder to kill and nobody wants to touch me because im also stupid hard to kill i get more out of it because now we are making each other harder to kill

It's best use case is a high sustain tank binding with a high sustain juggernaut

Sion has good regen and shields and can get a large hp pool which makes it effective for him to bind to someone because the bits of damage he receives he can shield or regen back or worst case barely dents his large hp pool a juggernaut will be relatively tanky thus receiving less damage to absorb as well

Keeping them alive longer means more healing from their innate healing, but they also have the damage to heal you with the bond as well

either way the bond is most effective when coupled with additional defenses hp and sustain and one of the 2 need to have decent damage while the other shouldn't be bothered by receiving damage

Celeste BEAST1 votes

That actually makes a whole lot of sense on taric specifically. Bind your abilities to the adc but then bind the knights vow to a juggernaut. This will make both you and the juggernaut almost unkillable and this allows you to get in people's face and spam auto to spam heal without as much fear of being bursted down bytheir team so using that item that way allows you to keep 3 people alive very effectivly

(Also sorry about necroing I just thought your post is exteemly insightful)

Akenero2 votes

Except vow is permanent reduction. If you r ADC is constantly taking and doing damage, vow is more useful.

chipndip11 votes

Well, once again:

Vow is limited in its overall possible benefit based on how much you can take AND how much hp your target has to lose AS WELL AS the overall burst they're taking without healing/shielding. It takes THOUSANDS of incoming damage to compare to the single-target strength of Locket...and Locket covers five people. Assuming you're not dumb enough to take random pot shots ALL GAME LONG, Locket is better where it counts, in concentrated bursts of fighting, seeing how LoL's team fights are generally bursty anyway.

The only way you're seeing KV actually being worth anything at all is if your carry takes damage AND life steals fast enough to take more damage, and even then the mitigation isn't that much. In most instances, it's better to simply have a Locket on your end to deny that damage upfront in the first place. It's more generally useful and it's still perfectly workable into that one specific niche situation of "I'm a monkey that can't dodge skill shots for 3 minutes on end of non-stop bullet hell, but I somehow haven't died yet even with a non-healer support."

KuroCaliber1 votes

See they are used for different situations, at least for me. Locker is good to survive team fight burst. But knight's vow is much better for poke and siege. They have each their own perks.

chipndip11 votes

Your adc can just life steal off incoming minions, and if you have a heal you can heal yourself, which is what Redemption is...which is usually paired with this item.

To boot, you can't win a game by SOLELY relying on poke/siege alone. On top of that, just because your team comp supports poking and sieging doesn't mean you won't team fight, and most games will have at least one large team fight unless it's a clown fiesta or a straight stomp -> open mid.

Locket has way more general uses than Knight's Vow does. That cutesy 12% life steal/damage transfer doesn't compare to the general power of that big ass shield which can be made even bigger. You can totally wing it with a Locket if you're sieging, but Knight's Vow can't compare to Locket in any other field.

KuroCaliber1 votes

{quoted}

Your adc can just life steal off incoming minions, and if you have a heal you can heal yourself, which is what Redemption is...which is usually paired with this item.

To boot, you can't win a game by SOLELY relying on poke/siege alone. On top of that, just because your team comp supports poking and sieging doesn't mean you won't team fight, and most games will have at least one large team fight unless it's a clown fiesta or a straight stomp -> open mid.

Locket has way more general uses than Knight's Vow does. That cutesy 12% life steal/damage transfer doesn't compare to the general power of that big ass shield which can be made even bigger. You can totally wing it with a Locket if you're sieging, but Knight's Vow can't compare to Locket in any other field.

Actually, Redemption is also a burst heal with a High CD. It is best used during a fight when everyone is low. Also, for champions who scale off of health over resists, knight's vow is much better. Even. As an armor/health item, it is the most affordable for supports, and gives 400HP and Randuin's level armor. See I play a lot of beefy front line supps. Braum, Thresh, Taric, Alistar. And when I have knight's vow on my carry, and they're doing their 1000+ crits, It keeps me healthy so I can continue front lining for them, instead of popping locket and overshielding for a little poke. Sieging can last a long time, and it's not wise to burn a high CD for that. Do I buy locket? Yes. Do I think it is good as a hybrid resist item? Kinda (It's very magic focused). If I want armor, knights vow is my item. Banner is shit because its active is worthless against AD champions. (Really riot, you give the magic immune minion to the ARMOR item?). So for being a tank, Knight's vow is better.

KuroCaliber1 votes

Also, your stats are wrong. Knight's Vow deals true damage to you based on 12% of the damage your carry takes AFTER mitigation, and you heal for 12% of the damage your carry deals BEFORE mitigation.

chipndip11 votes

Knight's Vow healing and damage re-disposition is all post-mitigation. Imagine how stupid the healing would be if it was actually pre-mitigation healing...

WalkingInACircle1 votes

What? You buy it after locket.

chipndip11 votes

That's the issue:

You buy Sightstone

You buy boots

You buy Redemption

You buy Locket

Game ended GG GUYS

Whole inventory is full of shit you just have to buy. This is ridiculous. Supports usually get about 10k-ish gold a game on average. You aren't seeing 5 - 6 items a game unless you're on good gold and you're buying cheap. So with this said, when are you making use of anything else? Reason I targeted KV specifically is because Silver players constantly talk about how great it is and how it's situationally better than Locket.

Vectros1 votes

While I definitely see your point, I think you did miss a couple of things.

  1. CD's. Locket only lasts a few seconds, so you don't have it up constantly. As such, you're making use of Knights Vow at all times. Poke can be absorbed, then the ADC heals you right back. ADCs tend to build lifesteal themselves, so we're quickly recovering a lot of health here.
  2. Timing. You can miss locket, or maybe the enemy doesn't do the full damage. However, I know my Vow will do its thing every time. Your numbers don't account for misplayed Lockets (or enemies seeing you only shielded 2-3 of you and switching targets), nor accounts for Jhin lifestealing for himself (or being healed by any other means...such as Heal summoner spell which he probably has) that would extend the amount Knights Vow is healing.

I'm not trying to say Vow is better, overall it probably isn't-but your numbers aren't really solid because you didn't cover everything.

chipndip11 votes

It's fine that Locket has variability because that variability is overcome through player skill and timing. You CAN miss, but a better support player won't miss as hard or as often, and they'll see stronger use of it.

In comparison, Knight's Vow makes a decent padding item, but there's no instance I'm going to think to myself "Man, I should build Knight's Vow before that Locket. Something about it is going to be super useful for this game". With a bit of confidence in your abilities, there's no real reason to put KV over Locket.

6Sfool1 votes

You didn't factor in the fact that Knight's vow lets you stick to them easier, especially if your carry is fast. Sometimes I buy Knight's vow and link up with the assassin so I can engage and sustain better, the damage reduction is secondary.

I usually build both items on tank supports though. I swap Knight's vow with a healing item if I'm going enchanter support.

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