Two words, Dark Harvest.
Don’t you even dare nerf him as he was perfectly fine before the Dark Harvest rework. I don’t even play Karthus and I think he was in a well balanced position until the Dark Harvest happened.
Ratpie75 votesFor real, Karthus was in the basement for a long time, it was nice to see him start doing better, but I am fearful that dark harvest is going to get him some unwanted attention. I was rolling a 70% win rate on him before the dark harvest (mostly because I dont think most people know what to do vs him). Riot please fix DH and don't bury Karthus into oblivion. He is a fun champs that actually has heavy weaknesses to counter his strengths, unlike some other newer champs/reworks.
SAVE KARTHUS! DOWN WITH DARK HARVEST!
Heckin Support8 votesLet's never let a Sejuani situation ever happen again.
Still feel bad for her...
acrid5620 votesThe problem with karthus is that as an enemy, he feels so unsatisfying. It sucks to outplay someone, only to have karthus kill you shortly after. This is true especially early game, where you dont always have zhonyas.
kargish2 votesBut that is the only part that sucks about Karthus, but likewise it must suck for Karthus to think you finish someone off, but then 
happens.
Fighting Karthus in actual combat is a decent experience. You can dodge his Q pretty easily, and if you don't you take a fair about of punishment for it, but you can't just dodge his Q forever since his E will wittle you down if you take too long to deal with him.
Tzuyu Is My Bias1 votesyeah but zhonyas and eon frustration apply against every champ, karth ult frustration applies only when versus a karth
3TWarrior5 voteskind of his thing? His ult is pretty much ALL that he has going for him
if he even manages to land a Q with only a single target, at most it does 260 + 60% ap and that's after a half second delay for it to explode
his ult is a finisher, it always has been. It's annoying, but not frustrating
compare that to yasuo (one of the most banned champs) who can eliminate over half of all ranged attacks in the game while being a super defensive hypercarry as soon as he gets two items?
i kick routers10 votes[deleted]
Starcraft243ver4 votesHe meant that karthus can turn every 1v1 on the map in a 2v1, and unlike soraka, the timing doesnt even have to be good. You can be 4-5 second late and still kill the backing ennemy.
acrid561 votesif you are dying to part of his kit its clearly not an outplay.
its like saying "i outplayed that tf but its so bullshit since when i tower dived him he gold carded me and we traded kills".
It's not at all like that! In one, I can avoid the gold card by staying out of range, or not towerdiving, or flashing or dashing away. You can't do that with a karthus ult.
One is avoidable, the other one cant be avoided.
i kick routers1 votes[deleted]
acrid561 votesmy comment was referring to a 1v1 situation with the karthus, we were talking about different situations
also in the situation you are talking about you could do any combination of hexdrinker, zhonyas, stopwatch (free or bought), banshees, mr in general or having the healing to heal up before his ult animation finishes
Except that that is really restrictive. Unlike other champions, you cant avoid karthus's ult. That means you need to rush some method of mitigating his damage, and not just you, but minimum three people on your team need to do the same. That puts your team at a serious disadvantage almost instantly.
EuroKrem1 votesDeath is the enemy.
Paroe6 votesI wonder if anyone realizes why karthus is strong... ... Its partly because of dark harvest, Karthus has always loved more ult damage, but its mostly because hes an unexpected champion. Ive seen Urgot bot lanes work vs caitlyn and ezreal explicitly because they dont know how to deal with urgot. Its also the whole reason non-traditional bot lanes worked during the chicken little patch.
DH has BEEN nerfed, Karthus is fine as he is, marksmen mains just need to learn to dodge his easily dodgable small AoE.
IllegalBagel5 votesNO NERF KARTHUS PLS
Camping Bot Lane3 votesI just think his ult needs the treatment that TF and pantheon got.. Shouldn't be global..
I know its fun to use, but 600 damage (on the low-side) to all 5 of the enemy team is 3000 damage for one button press, every 2 minutes or so. If he just stayed in base from the 10-30 minute mark, pressing R on cooldown, he would likely get a ton of kills, assists and around 30k damage if he made sure the enemy was always up. Its just a dated mechanic that makes the champ harder to play against than it should.
Lauchmelder20 votesI'm not sure about this but isn't his ult up about every 5 minutes because of it being global?
Camping Bot Lane4 votes[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPF1267e,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-11-25T21:35:09.371+0000)
I'm not sure about this but isn't his ult up about every 5 minutes because of it being global?
lol absolutely not. its 200 seconds (3.33 minutes) at rank 1.
180 at rank 2 (3 minutes) 160 at rank 3.
With 45% cdr (which is common on karthus) you're looking at a global ult every 90 seconds. (1.5 minutes) (if he's running ultimate hunter (also common with new builds) you can expect it to be around 70 seconds)
Dobiwobi19 votes45% cdr isnt at all common on karthus
saltran11 votesBut 40% is common to be fair
My Waifu Vanilla5 votesI mean. It definitely is for the ultimate. Karth goes Ulti Hunter+Presence of Mind right now meaning his ult is on a VERY short cooldown almost all game.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesEven WITH all that CDR, I wouldn't describe one of the longest ultimate CDs as being short.
Ratpie2 votes[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPF1267e,comment-id=00020000000000000001,timestamp=2018-11-26T16:15:08.932+0000)
I mean. It definitely is for the ultimate. Karth goes Ulti Hunter+Presence of Mind right now meaning his ult is on a VERY short cooldown almost all game.
Only if he is involved in multikills. It is the most fun in ARAM, because you can usually wipe a whole team with him and drop it to a 15 second CD
CppL1 votesKarthus dont build cdr so...
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesrunes, buy seraphs, transendence. 40% cdr. with zero effort. let's not act like you need to specifically invest into CDR when its thrown around like LSD
Gilgayu1 votesHe is immoble, weak early, item-reliant, squshy, mana-hungry (if played wrong) for a reason
Camping Bot Lane1 votesHe is immoble, weak early, item-reliant, squshy, mana-hungry (if played wrong) for a reason
His mana costs are negligible for amount of spells used. His q's cooldown is WAYY too low for the damage it does to single target. His slow on his wall guarantees a couple hits at least on champions without dashes. His ult is a global execute.
Karthus in a game means that no team fight can be "close." It has to be a complete stomp, or your team is going to be executed by him. He doesn't even have to be in the fight with his ult. There is no excuse for a champ like him to exist in a team game in his current state
SennaFirstPick3 votesi got the same feeling with kalista, her damage early game paired with Dark harvest let her deal 237 damage at lvl 2 with 3-4 spears on the enemy, pls dont abuse it too much now that u know
Bârd3 votesKarthus gets indirectly nerfed with every new release/rework because almost everything Riot releases now has some means of negating his ult.
If they give him direct nerfs I'm gonna be pretty mad ngl.
Robert Smith3 votesFunny thing is Dark Harvest is better on his Q and E
Pika Fox2 votesMany things changed, and he will be balanced around the changes. If that means karthus nerfs, it means karthus nerfs.
imfoolish2 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPF1267e,comment-id=0021,timestamp=2018-11-26T18:55:05.804+0000)
Many things changed, and he will be balanced around the changes. If that means karthus nerfs, it means karthus nerfs.
We shouldn't be nerfing champion who wasn't even meta till riot decided to release dark harvest. Which BTW everyone stated not to release because of how OP and easy it is to proc it.
Pika Fox1 votesHarvest is overrated, and yes, we should be nerfing champions based around game changes. Thats literally the point of balance.
imfoolish1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPF1267e,comment-id=002100000000,timestamp=2018-11-26T22:53:40.655+0000)
Harvest is overrated, and yes, we should be nerfing champions based around game changes. Thats literally the point of balance.
Nerfing Champs till someone else is op? And then crying about how this new champ is op and asking for nerfs immediately? As I've stated before shaco power creep his way to the top. He has always been around 50% to 52% win rate and top 10 junglers without ever so much as a buff (his ad scaling was nerf mind I tell u) before dark harvest got reworked. Thus he was balance. No one noticed him being good as good or op champion before new dark harvest release. The problem is not the champion it is the rune.
Pika Fox1 votesAnd thats how balance goes. And thats how the meta shifts.
Paroe3 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPF1267e,comment-id=00210000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-26T23:57:19.449+0000)
And thats how balance goes. And thats how the meta shifts.
Actually, meta evolution should be entirely player driven. (C is a meta sheep) A makes a champion and build popular. B counters A. C loses to B. A counters B. C loses to A. B counters A. C loses to B... etc.
What riot does is enforce the meta; instead of balancing the game so that most champions are the same power level, they constantly keep about 30 champions (of 140+) in the "A+" tier at any one time, with many of those champions not receiving more than slaps on the wrist when they become wildly popular due to their sheer strength Examples of this are Irela, Graves, Ezreal, and Kai'sa; All four are disgustingly strong champions, kept strong, and when they get limelight they are rarely touched and riot creates a new problem until people forget about them.
Now, in an ARPG like path of exile (which is entirely PVE) you need weaker abilities to create a sense of growth; Going from fireball to flameblast or glacial cascade to vortex feels really nice. In a MOBA like league, you do not need weaker champions AT ALL for that sense of growth.
Pika Fox1 votesThats not likely to happen. The reality is players are garbage at changing the meta themselves because they get a playstyle they prefer. Example; each major LoL region has a different meta, yet the meta in each region rarely, if ever, changes based on player input. Usually its following a balance patch.
LoL already has multiple dominating metas that anyone can pick from at any time. People just dont.
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPF1267e,comment-id=002100000000,timestamp=2018-11-26T22:53:40.655+0000)
Harvest is overrated, and yes, we should be nerfing champions based around game changes. Thats literally the point of balance.
Nerfing the solid for the transient is beyond stupid. Thats putting the cart before the horse.
An item or a rune can be removed at any time. A champion cannot. When an item breaks a class of champions, you nerf the item. When an champion breaks an item, you nerf the champion.
When a champion beaks an item and you nerf the item instead of the champion, everyone else who used that items is now much weaker. When an item breaks a champion and you nerf the champion, and then nerf the item, that champion is now Sejuani.
Thats kind of riots schtick though, limelight balancing. They create problems to say "LOOK I FIXED IT" without actually doing their job. Its why they 'beat around the bush' balance wise so much... Like instead of nerfing Irelia, Ezreal, and GPs Q to not apply onhit effects they just hit minor things elsewhere in their kit, or in ezreal case nerf him a little so people forget about him and then give him a MAJOR buff that lets him destroy towers with ease.
Pika Fox1 votesThats not how the game or balance works. You could remove towers, minions, champions, runes, anything you want. Thats not a real argument to balancing a game based around what you have in the game.
Sej didnt break anything, sej was just too good in pro play. When you make tanks proper teamfight control tanks, theyre really good in pro play. Utility is garbage in soloqueue. Sej's power is much higher than most other champs in the game, but most players dont play well enough in a team setting to use it.
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPF1267e,comment-id=00210000000000010000,timestamp=2018-11-26T23:52:12.228+0000)
Thats not how the game or balance works. You could remove towers, minions, champions, runes, anything you want. Thats not a real argument to balancing a game based around what you have in the game.
Sej didnt break anything, sej was just too good in pro play. When you make tanks proper teamfight control tanks, theyre really good in pro play. Utility is garbage in soloqueue. Sej's power is much higher than most other champs in the game, but most players dont play well enough in a team setting to use it.
What? Cinderhulk broke Sejauni. Sejauni was nerfed because of cinderhulk. Cinderhulk was nerfed. Compound nerf left sejauni in the dumpster for years.
Game balance most certainly works like i described; The champions are the vehicle and the surrounding systems should be there to support the champion.
When you nerf a champion because of an item, youre saying that the champion breaks the item. When you nerf an item because of a champion, youre saying that the item breaks the champion.
For example; Ezreal breaks iceborne gauntlet. It is not broken on anyone else but ezreal. With the way riot works, they would nerf everything about ezreal but his Q, then nerf the item, and then finally nerf the Q. They beat around the bush instead of dealing WITH the bush. They put the cart before the horse. They put items and runes in front of champions in terms of balance and expect the game to function well.
Pika Fox1 votesSej was broken because her rework itself was too good in pro play. Cinderhulk had little to do with it.
Ratpie1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPF1267e,comment-id=002100000000,timestamp=2018-11-26T22:53:40.655+0000)
Harvest is overrated, and yes, we should be nerfing champions based around game changes. Thats literally the point of balance.
I was wondering the same, until I dropped 8k DH damage in a game. By the end I was doing 400 dam per tick with Dinger
.
Paroe2 votesI was wondering the same, until I dropped 8k DH damage in a game. By the end I was doing 400 dam per tick with Dinger
But were you getting a ton of kills because of DH, or just applying pressure? I think thats the big thing - if you do a bunch of proc damage but arent getting kills and only pressure, then is it really broken?
Ive gotten 6K DH damage on a 200AP morgana support, but i had next to no kills because of it. I had a lot of KP and pressure, but few kills.
Pika Fox1 votesTbh wouldnt be as good as aery or the like. Heim cant use domination runes as effectively as he can resolve and sorcery runes.
Ratpie1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPF1267e,comment-id=00210000000000020001,timestamp=2018-11-27T17:36:17.617+0000)
Tbh wouldnt be as good as aery or the like. Heim cant use domination runes as effectively as he can resolve and sorcery runes.
His rockets work pretty well with it since, his e+w combo can hit pretty hard and his rockets count as multiple hits so as it takes them below half it procs, and its pretty easy to keep poking with him. RIght now, I have been trying different rune combos, and at the end of the rounds DH is clearing the best damage on almost every caster. It is just too strong atm.
Pika Fox1 votesEven then Electro would likely pull better. Heim isnt likely to get someone to half unless they opt to go in range of his turrets (or at least their laser range and he lands an E). Heim is also not likely to be present or offensive in a teamfight without at least 5 seconds to place turrets, so getting multiple harvest stacks off in a fight with resets likely wont be a thing either.
ez mental boom2 votesThis post would make a good mad-lib for describing runes reforged and season 8 in general
Don’t you even dare nerf him as he was perfectly fine before ___________. I don’t even play ________ and I think he was in a well balanced position until ________ happened.
Jax and conq/ER Nasus and klepto Ahri and glacial Lucian and BoRK buff/crit nerfs Liss and aftershock
What makes me especially salty is the number of people crying about Jax's kit, when he has been nearly untouched except for QoL changes or compensation buffs for the removal of runes for years. Nobody ever said anything about him other than "reliable pick for soloQ"
