How to fix Vladimir

Melledoneus··4 votes·1,187 views

Riot, we all know that Vladimir is one of those champions you had high hopes for, but then realized was nearly impossible to balance because of the nature of their kit. His passive makes him a late game terror, Q values must be exceedingly low to provide lane opponents the chance to breathe because of its strength in his kit, E feels extremely useless until it is used as a part of a damage combo, and W... ok, W is ok, I guess.

So, the question remains: how do we make this champion balance-able, more fun to play against, and more interesting in one go? Well, we need to address the issues one by one and see how we can fix it.

1. Transfusion (Q) has extremely low counterplay and is prone to being spammed in lane. This becomes problematic to balance because a no resource, targeted damage spell that returns health with a relatively low cooldown is extremely powerful, and giving it higher values on either its damage or heal would be extremely detrimental to the gameplay experience against him. We all know this is Vladimir's bread and butter move. Press Q, deal damage, get health back. Simple, right? But not so simple to balance. How do we fix this issue? Well, there are several ways. -Make the healing values scale with his bonus HP, and reduce the base values. That way, Vladimir will be easier to shut down in lane given you use the right strategies and hit him hard enough. This also scales better into the limited range of his Q, making it an ideal strategy to let the wave push towards Vladimir early so that he will lose farm and his god-like late game will be stalled.

-Give Vladimir reduced armor and MR when the Q healing blood particles are still moving towards him. It makes sense if you think about it. Vladimir drains your blood, and lets down his guard to receive it with open arms, with pleasure. I know it's a small period of time to strike, but it could just work. If Vladimir is running and he tries to kite you with Q, use your gap closer and knock him on the head for spamming it in a time like that. Additionally, it makes Vlad more prone to being kited, as an Ahri, for example, can just throw an orb backwards and deal more damage if he Q's her. This also makes his dueling take a hit. If Vlad Q's you, it's time to strike. He might heal back some damage, but with the right champion and items you will prevail.

-Make Vladimir's worst nightmare CC and limited range. Say you're playing against a Maokai top lane because... reasons. You try to trade with Maokai, so naturally you Q. While the Q particles are still traveling back, Maokai uses Arcane Smash (Q) and knocks Vladimir backwards and reverses his direction. The blood particles will stop traveling toVladimir , and he gets no heal. Similarly, if Vladimir uses Q and moves outside a set range of where the particles will travel from his target to him, it will also cut short. Now, I know this sounds like a huge annoyance for Vladimir players to deal with. All those "wth Riot ruined Vlad" exclamations will be plenty. So, as a compensation, the blood particles will fall on the ground in a puddle for a few seconds, and if Vladimir walks near it (similar to Thresh's soul mechanics), the blood will travel to him, granting him a portion of the original heal. This one may be a long shot, but Riot has a history of making things work.

2. Tides of Blood (E) feels so dull and unwanted in his kit. The percent damage and healing values are boring to work with, and in general is more useful as a trading tool than a healing/damage amplifier. Here we are again. Vladimir's second bread and butter move. In almost every lane trade, you see him pop a quick E before a Q. Yay for 8% amplified damage and healing. But I don't blame Riot. Make those values higher and Vladimir's Q will hit like a truck even before his late game shenanigans. That begs the question, however. How do you make this ability fun, useful, and easier to play against, as well as easier to balance? I have a few ideas for that. _-Similar to Quinn's passive, make Tides of Blood (E) mark enemies hit by it. Each time Vladimir auto attacks or E's again on the same target(s), this applies a stack of Deep Wounds. Deep Wounds enhances Vladimir's Q damage on the target by a certain percentage each stack. Maximum 4 stacks. So, does this mean attack speed Vladimir will become a thing? Maybe. It's about time we stopped with the "One build, One lyfe" mindset where one specific set of items is all that is viable on the Crimson Reaper. item 3115, especially with the new changes rolling out on PBE, would be a viable pick on Vlad. This would also synchronize very well with Hemoplague (R, as he can do his usual cast, E everyone, keep trying to apply more stacks like you're Darius, and Q the target that you want to kill. Hemoplague will amplify your Q damage, and so will Deep Wounds. "But Mell, you're insane! Vlad can destroy my entire team and provide no counterplay!" Well, that could be true if you're dealing with a fed Vlad who has flash, and his ultimate up. Who comes up from an unwarded area. Late game. The circumstances are too rare for that, and if you don't have vision of that guy, someone on your team has been skipping out on the ward chores. Of course, the counterplay to his engage is mobility, spell shields, and oranges. If you have one of those, you should be k. Additionally, the values won't hurt too much in lane unless you're a top lane Zac trying to beat the crap out of Vladimir with just auto attacks. The circumstances will be rare, and very hard to align a perfect 4-stack Tides of Blood (E). But one thing it does do is make item 3257 a viable boot enchantment on him. With Rylai's, he's going to be both tanky and damaging. Which I will address soon. _

-Give a little buff to E. What I had in mind was something similar to the following. "Whenever Vladimir executes a unit with Tides of Blood (E), he gains health equal to 2% of the unit's maximum health." Now, I know what you're thinking. "Dude, what the fun, if Vlad kills a tank he gets like a million health, and he can heal from an entire minion wave in one shot. Duuuuude, not cool." However, on the contrary, it will be cool because it gives Riot a reason to give compensation nerfs to his E damage values if they're too high. Also, the old passive/new passive can be taken down a percentage point or two if his wave clear gets a little too... rewarding. Also, have you tried to clear an entire minion wave in one E proc? I've never done it, it takes at least 2 tries. And it always beats uses W on the wave.

3. Vladimir 's Crimson Pact (Passive) is extremely oppressive. All he has to do is build damage and he becomes a monstrously tanky mage. Which is his whole schtick. However, it proves impossible to keep him off your carries because he takes a while to take down, and he can slither past your team with W. I know how it feels to be a support trying to peel for an ADC against a full build Vladimir. It's not fun. I am not here to tell Riot how to gut his passive and make it useless. That's right, and I am not here to suggest any changes, just address the issue. Vladimir becomes very tanky later on, and building damage on him is ideal, because that 140% bonus AP into HP and 2.5% bonus HP into AP makes him a powerhouse. Late game, he can flash-E-Q your carry dead. You can tell your carries to build some bulk like item 3022, item 3116, or item 3102. However, lots of times ADCs are not willing to sacrifice their pushing power because some Dracula-looking ~~vampire ~~ hemomancer can two shot-them. The best way to deal with a late game Vladimir is to force his Sanguine Pool (W) early on with CC. Thresh hooks and Veigar Event Horizon (E) work very well, since they have clear delays and give Vladimir time to react with a pool. That way, he loses his only disengage and you can blow him up. Another good way to save your carries from his ultimate damage and amplification is recommending them to buy a item 3140 or a item 3157. For AD champions, item 3140 turns into item 3139. Additionally, the new AP item changes rolling out make him either weaker or stronger, depending on which changes go out. The reduced item 3157 AP will hurt him, but the amplified item 3089 passive helps him. Overall, Riot will make their own adjustments, and we'll have to see how these changes affect the Crimson reaper.

**Thank you for taking your time to read this. If you didn't feel like reading the Great Wall of China text, here's a Tl,dr of each. **

1: Q is too stronk. -Reduced armor and MR when Q particles are still traveling toward Vladimir. -Give Q particles limited range from target to Vladimir. If range is outside, or Vladimir gets a dose of hard CC, the particles will make a puddle like Zac's blobs. Vladimir can pick them up for reduced healing.

2: E is boring. -Give it a stack system that detonates with Q. Stacks start with E, AAs and E procs add more stacks. Max 4 stacks. -When E kills something that isn't a jungle creep, give Vladimir 2% of its max HP in healing.

3: Vladimir has counterplay. It comes in the form of building items and good positioning. item 3140 and item 3157 work well. AP item changes might hurt or help him. Whatever.


Thanks for reading, and tell me what you think!

If you're from Riot, please look this over, it's really important and I know that you guys have had trouble balancing this guy. Just tell me what you think, steal my ideas, whatever, I want to help you help yourselves, because I love your game and your entire company's staff, especially Phreak. Say hi to Phreak for me.

21 Comments

SmolButSas3y4 votes

Seems like you really dislike vlad. I think he is perfect the way he is

Melledoneus2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shadow wraith 27,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fN51nvEK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-18T20:02:07.992+0000)

Seems like you really dislike vlad. I think he is perfect the way he is

Quite the contrary. I love Vlad. He's perhaps my favorite mage next to Viktor. Which is why I posted this.

Riot is having trouble balancing Vlad in his current state. I merely provided some suggestions and analytical criticism on his design in order to pave the way for a more fun Vlad.

EDIT: Apparently people are against the idea of making a champion more fun...

Nemesis Force X1 votes

{quoted}

Quite the contrary. I love Vlad. He's perhaps my favorite mage next to Viktor. Which is why I posted this.

Riot is having trouble balancing Vlad in his current state. I merely provided some suggestions and analytical criticism on his design in order to pave the way for a more fun Vlad.

Suggestions and analytical criticism from bronze players are worthless.

Melledoneus2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nemesis Force X,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fN51nvEK,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-18T23:28:34.982+0000)

Suggestions and analytical criticism from bronze players are worthless.

Suggestions and analytical criticisms from clearly one-sided and irrational players are worthless.

DrNova2 votes

Vlad is fine as is. He isnt horribly popular, his early game is very weak if you know how to play against him, he doesnt seem like a problem.

Melledoneus1 votes

I agree. Riot put him in a manageable place as of now. However, he's one of those champions who could go from balanced to OP with a few number buffs. I merely provided ways to keep Vlad interesting in an evolving meta, and give Riot some breathing space to tweak his power at certain phases of the game.

Nemesis Force X1 votes

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Melledoneus

A clueless bronze garbage, who is lying about how Vladimir is one of his favourite champions, while he has only played 1 Vladimir game in the last 30 days and that was a custom 1v1 game in which he got owned by a miss fortune. It is obvious that this bronze garbage player hates Vladimir and wants him nerfed. Vladimir is fine, l2p.

DrNova1 votes

lol. Yeah cause you are so pro.

Besides this guy's misguided douchbagness (And I thought we Americans had all the douchebags) he is correct at least in the fact you havent played Vlad enough to know anything about him. You also haent played against him recently so we can count out the usual "I just got beat by a champ so clearly they are op" post.

Not sure where you are coming from here.

Melledoneus2 votes

{quoted}

lol. Yeah cause you are so pro.

Besides this guy's misguided douchbagness (And I thought we Americans had all the douchebags) he is correct at least in the fact you havent played Vlad enough to know anything about him. You also haent played against him recently so we can count out the usual "I just got beat by a champ so clearly they are op" post.

Not sure where you are coming from here.

As a matter of fact, I have played Vladimir a lot. My match history on live can't be proof to that fact because I experiment with him constantly on PBE. By no means do I hate Vlad. I love him. Also, it is unfair to make assumptions based on match history that is recent on one server.

Let me explain again where I am coming from. Vladimir is a balanced champ. Just really broken in design. He is hard to balance and sometimes oppressive. Riot was right to drop his numbers. All I did was suggest ways to keep this champion interesting and create new opportunities to make a champion easier to balance.

Melledoneus2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nemesis Force X,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fN51nvEK,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-06-18T23:28:19.295+0000)

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Melledoneus

A clueless bronze garbage, who is lying about how Vladimir is one of his favourite champions, while he has only played 1 Vladimir game in the last 30 days and that was a custom 1v1 game in which he got owned by a miss fortune. It is obvious that this bronze garbage player hates Vladimir and wants him nerfed. Vladimir is fine, l2p.

Please read the post again, if you read it at all.

I stated that Vladimir is hard to balance and could use some kit improvements to fix that. Coming onto a topic about balance and spouting insults and generalizations by looking at two very under representative details is by no means humane. If you came here to get a rise out of a person trying to provide ideas about ways to change Vladimir to become more balance-able, I recommend you go elsewhere. Sure, I may be Bronze. People who were Platinum last season are in Bronze. People who don't play ranked as much as others are in Bronze. If you have the gall to call another person garbage and engage in ad hominem rather than discuss the topic at hand, you have some serious reconsidering to do.

Although, judging by your comment history, I'd say you are either too hot headed or young to be engaging in intelligent conversation rather than flinging insults stemming from baseless stereotypes about Bronze players. Either way, you may not read this since it is obvious you did not read the original post. It is our actions and words that make us who we are, not what metal our ranked medallion is forged from.

Nemesis Force X1 votes

{quoted}

Please read the post again, if you read it at all.

I stated that Vladimir is hard to balance and could use some kit improvements to fix that. Coming onto a topic about balance and spouting insults and generalizations by looking at two very under representative details is by no means humane. If you came here to get a rise out of a person trying to provide ideas about ways to change Vladimir to become more balance-able, I recommend you go elsewhere. Sure, I may be Bronze. People who were Platinum last season are in Bronze. People who don't play ranked as much as others are in Bronze. If you have the gall to call another person garbage and engage in ad hominem rather than discuss the topic at hand, you have some serious reconsidering to do.

Although, judging by your comment history, I'd say you are either too hot headed or young to be engaging in intelligent conversation rather than flinging insults stemming from baseless stereotypes about Bronze players. Either way, you may not read this since it is obvious you did not read the original post. It is our actions and words that make us who we are, not what metal our ranked medallion is forged from.

I am 23 and diamond on my main, I don't care what you have to say lying bronze noob. Didn't even read your post, lel. You hate Vlad and want him nerfed, this is obvious.

Wezz2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nemesis Force X,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fN51nvEK,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-06-19T10:04:00.061+0000)

I am 23 and diamond on my main, I don't care what you have to say lying bronze noob. Didn't even read your post, lel. You hate Vlad and want him nerfed, this is obvious.

The fact that you still say noob makes me doubt you're 23

Melledoneus1 votes

{quoted}

The fact that you still say noob makes me doubt you're 23

Thank you! I thought I was imagining things when every person here defended him. Don't waste your time, though. He clearly doesn't read properly, despite being 23, unless he dropped from school at the time when they started reading short essays.

Melledoneus1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nemesis Force X,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fN51nvEK,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-06-19T10:04:00.061+0000)

I am 23 and diamond on my main, I don't care what you have to say lying bronze noob. Didn't even read your post, lel. You hate Vlad and want him nerfed, this is obvious.

What's obvious is you are either trolling or incredibly and obnoxiously stupid. Either way, I came here to discuss Vlad, and not speak to a brick wall. Have a nice day.

atomicwit1 votes

Vlad's kit is toxic by design. I don't know what Riot was thinking. Infinite sustain and poke.... resourceless... high damage.... gets tankier from building damage... good escape potential... amazing teamfighting... etc. The only weakness is no hard CC and a bit of ramp up time. He's like a ranged Nasus with way more team-fight impact. The kit is basically the definition of toxic and offers almost no windows to do anything to him if he plays correctly. At least Ryze runs out of mana. I ban Vlad any time I can because he's so disgusting to play against even if he's not a free win.

Melledoneus3 votes

{quoted}

Vlad's kit is toxic by design. I don't know what Riot was thinking. Infinite sustain and poke.... resourceless... high damage.... gets tankier from building damage... good escape potential... amazing teamfighting... etc. The only weakness is no hard CC and a bit of ramp up time. He's like a ranged Nasus with way more team-fight impact. The kit is basically the definition of toxic and offers almost no windows to do anything to him if he plays correctly. At least Ryze runs out of mana. I ban Vlad any time I can because he's so disgusting to play against even if he's not a free win.

He's possible to play around, just fine. I'm trying to suggest ways to fix his broken state, which does not by any means mean he is over powered. If you have trouble with Vlad, consult the Summoner's School or watch Vladimir lanes in the pro scene.

atomicwit1 votes

You act like it's just me and not the champion's kit. He is basically winning every lane by level 9 if he hasn't made gross mistakes and fed. His ban-rate is 15% in Diamond and I don't think those guys are unaware of how to handle him.

Melledoneus2 votes

Vladimir only has a 10-11% pick rate, since he is a very specific pick for specific lanes. For example, I would choose Vlad into Shen, but not into Xin Zhao. His win rate is somewhere between 54-55% at the moment, meaning he's in a pretty good place in the rise of the supposed "tank meta." I do agree that Vladimir, once ahead, is quite oppressive and requires multiple people or a really good duelist to take down. I've been in that position as Vlad many times. However, many people don't even play Vladimir, hence them making mistakes and Vladimir doing his thing and punishing them for it in his own way.

Can we just agree that Riot needs to make kit changes to make Vladimir more fun to play as and against?

atomicwit1 votes

Yes, a 15% ban-rate for a champion without even a high pick-rate is especially concerning. Vlad can survive any lane just fine if played properly. The reason he's not played more is probably because his kit is quite boring for most and not really about flashy plays. This is also why Lee Sin is still being picked a lot despite being complete and utter trash as far as I'm concerned.

Melledoneus1 votes

Trust me, he is nowhere near as annoying or powerful as Chogath.

Tanky early on and two shots squishies, has incredible lane sustain, and spammable spells.

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