http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/04/red-post-collection-state-of-season.html
>Morello's >Mana Regeneration: 100% --> 0% >Flat Mana: 0 --> 400
What? No MP/5 from morello's anymore? Well, at least I can go back to Athene's.
>Athene's >Ability Power: 60 --> 40
Wait, no I can't. It looks like mid-lane is about to get shaken up in terms of itemization. With abyssal getting nerfed and zyonya's getting nerfed, this mage update looks like a bad patch for midlaners.
Vistha Kai20 votesAnd the best part is that most mages are already in a bad spot.
RocketRelm7 votesTechnically this is a Zhoynas buff, not a nerf, when considered on the whole. The general message about shaking things up is true, but the specific thought about Zhoynas being nerfed isn't.
SnugglePuggle9423 votesHow is our active cooldown being increased while the AP being nerfed on it while CDR being slapped onto it called a "buff?"
It's a nerf!
RocketRelm6 votesThe item is easier to build, the item is more cost efficient. It received a nerf to the active usability, but now you're able to build it more reliably and get more out of it.
SnugglePuggle9414 votesYea....NO.
We can not get more out of it if we can't do damage because the AP was nerfed and we have little to no mana so we can't even use our abilities, all the while getting crapped on by Zed and the likes of others.
It doesn't seem useful to buy or "cost efficient."
Quepha7 votesYea....NO.
We can not get more out of it if we can't do damage because the AP was nerfed and we have little to no mana so we can't even use our abilities, all the while getting crapped on by Zed and the likes of others.
It doesn't seem useful to buy or "cost efficient."
Step 1) Build Zhonya's for 500 less gold than before Step 2) spend that 500 gold on an amplifying tome You're down 10 AP and up 10% cdr, 10% cdr is much better than 10 AP.
SnugglePuggle947 votesIn my opinion AP is better than a mere 10%CDR.
Quepha6 votesIn my opinion AP is better than a mere 10%CDR.
You are a crazy person. CDR is about 50% more expensive than AP and is hugely useful for every mage kit in the game. Especially at increasing your utility which is what you're looking to do when you need to build a Zhonya's at the expense of your total damage output.
SnugglePuggle945 votesWow, how rude calling me crazy.
I make myself work without much CDR. I like to go for damage or defensive mostly. So in my opinion, AP is better for me.
Quepha5 votesWow, how rude calling me crazy.
I make myself work without much CDR. I like to go for damage or defensive mostly. So in my opinion, AP is better for me.
In a defensive situation, cdr is better because you can put out more sustained damage in a fight. Any mage champion will get more damage output from casting 10% more spells in a fight than from 10 more AP.
SnugglePuggle944 votesSo be it. I don't care. In a defensive situation for me, I go for actual defensive items, not CDR.
Don't shun someone for their personal preferences, dude. Many people go for CDR. I don't.
So don't be rude.
Quepha6 votesSo be it. I don't care. In a defensive situation for me, I go for actual defensive items, not CDR.
Don't shun someone for their personal preferences, dude. Many people go for CDR. I don't.
So don't be rude.
We're talking about the actual effect of the changes, not personal preference. 10% cdr is objectively better than 10 AP from a raw gold value standpoint and from a strategic standpoint given what you're looking for when you want to build Zhonya's.
It's unfortunate that you like having AP on this item due to your personal preferences, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that these changes make the Zhonya's active more accessible to mages while also giving them a better mix of stats for their gold.
SnugglePuggle942 votesWell, if you look on the boards, tons of people disagree with you, not just me. So I think its best you just stop trying to persuade us that its "better."
Ayame Isaki7 votesThe problem here is that with mana-regen being removed from items and nerfed on the few keeping it, you will burn your mana 10% faster and then what?
The issue is that with these changes mages will not be able to sustain in lane. The fact I can cast my spells faster doesn't help me if I can't get my mana back (so I won't be spamming then anyway). So, when laning, I'll just back constantly for mana, allowing Zed/Yas/Corki/Talon to free farm gaining gold and experience on me.
And don't play the "manage your mana better" card; mages primary source of damage is their abilities. When getting harassed by the likes of Zed, you can either not CS (or get poked to hell) or use abilities to wave clear. If you use abilities to wave clear, you can't use them to harass your opponent, which means your opponent will bully you out of lane. If you decide to use your abilities on your opponent (particularly AD ones who can out sustain you with life steal) to try and not be bullied, you will ultimately lose a war of attrition and have little to show for it. No matter what you go, you end up having to back and the AD opponent free farms.
Keti1 votesmaybe if you valued CDR properly as a mid laner, you'd be able to get out of bronze.
SnugglePuggle941 votesI do value CDR, but I like my damage better. Like I said to the other person, don't shun people for their preferences.
Keti1 votesit goes beyond preferences that CDR is A LOT better than AP at a 1:1 tradeoff
Keti1 voteshmmmm
so if you could hypothetically spend 850 gold on an item to get 40% cdr, you'd spend it on a blasting wand instead?
You severely lack basic game understanding.
SnugglePuggle941 votesI do not. I understand the game quite well. I just prefer some things over others. Nothing wrong with that, but what is wrong is you rudely attacking people.
Keti2 voteswell don't blame itemization for your inefficient preferences.
SnugglePuggle941 votesGood lord you are a rude bully. Get out of here. My preferences are just fine.
Keti2 votesno it just doesn't make sense to complain about itemization when they change things in a way that doesn't go with your skewed stat valuation.
SnugglePuggle941 votesGood Lord my valuation isn't skewed. You aren't even worth talking too anymore. Good bye.
LankPants1 votesYou're also down an item slot, which can potentially be worth a lot more than 10% CDR. Your Hourglass also has 30 seconds longer CD.
It's a thinly veiled nerf, and quite a large one at that.
Quepha1 votesYou're also down an item slot, which can potentially be worth a lot more than 10% CDR. Your Hourglass also has 30 seconds longer CD.
It's a thinly veiled nerf, and quite a large one at that.
Item slot efficiency is very rarely relevant, and even then it only matters in the least important phase of the game (hyper late)
Early game matters more and getting access to the active earlier is a solid, undeniable buff.
EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votesHow is our active cooldown being increased while the AP being nerfed on it while CDR being slapped onto it called a "buff?"
It's a nerf!
everyone wanted a lower cost on making the item did you all think it would be free
SeargentAnus2 votesBuild the new 
. It'll likely be OP with that passive.
Linna Excel2 votesYou know I've been asking for something that refunds mana or reduces mana costs... however I always thought riot would put it in a shoe item so mages would have to choose between magic pen, CDR, or cheaper spells. I've got no idea how I feel about Seraph's staff getting the ability.
LadyRenly3 votesBuild the new
As a squishy mage, I am supposed to dodge enemy trades, not purposefully take it so I can push
SeargentAnus6 votes
has that passive. simply makes it so your spells cost less mana.
Sum Wun Speshal1 votesHow can I upvote you more than once?
People look at Athene's and see how it has been dumped for mid lane mages.
So what? Let's just move on and get other items that will probably fit better?
We can get a and have an amazing passive and the lack of CDR is not even that bad anymore because 
and 
will!
You can also get the new Lost Chapter item that will not only build into morellos but also into one of the new Hextech items.
The only complaint I would have that I have only heard from one other person yet is 
cost being untouched. 1700 gold when you already have 
and 
. That's painful.
But instead they moan about an item that they don't even know how it will work out yet. 
doesn't have Mana Regen and it's currently the best item you can get to weave more spells.
Forn ala creme2 votesWell, you know, Riot said that the reason for this was that they wanted to give Mana to midlaners and MP5 so supports. They said the reason for this is that they don't want midlaners to expect to have an infinite mana pool (like many of them kind of do lategame).
You're taking this whole change out of context.
JavelinJoe1 votesYeah, but then they go and reduce the AP numbers as well, meaning it takes more abilities to deal the same damage as before.
Forn ala creme1 votesIt also got CDR which in the long term should increase your DPS. Also, they changed it from a core item to an utility item, which I think it should be
JavelinJoe1 votesAnd how often do you see a mid laner take 
? Athene's will end up in the same boat as this item which is only used by 
and rarely 
Canidae2 votesDa heck? Abyssal isn't getting nerfed. It got reworked like how Soraka got reworked, meaning that if people took 2 damn seconds to actually read what they did, they'd realized how much utility they gave the item.
EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votestake meditation and think harder about how you use your mana. when azir builds switched from Morello to Nashors it def took a little getting used to but at the same time you can definitely adjust
JavelinJoe1 votesRight because mana-less assassins like Zed take Meditation to cover their ability costs.
EROTIC RAID BOSS3 votestypically they have other weaknesses that prevent them from sustaining forever
JavelinJoe1 votesNothing compares to mana in terms of limitation because even with no cooldowns, low mana can prevent ability useage. Similar to Health regen for health based champs except there are way more options for that.
EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votesk. whats the point of mana at all if you never run out. you kinda just have to accept that mana is a thing?
J E B A ł T E D1 votesAthene's new passive makes up for the loss of 20 AP tbh, and there's so many new sustain items. It's almost as if you can use the given synnergy betwen the items! Wow!
Sum Wun Speshal8 votesI hope you know that Athene's new passive can't be applied to yourself.
You won't regenerate 2% missing mana anymore. You don't get any Mana from kills and assists. You have 25% less MP5. 20 AP less.
I think most changes are okay overall but I expect this version of Athenes (if it ever goes live) to be ridiculously underpowered. I'm not even mad because other players and myself included are just going to switch to other items for mana sustain but this honestly seems like a troll item.
ArlanKels1 votesI'm hoping that they adjust the mana costs/mana regen of champions to compensate/adjust for the new no mana regen item lineup. Otherwise some champs are going to be completely incapable of doing anything.
LatetotheRace2 votesLol rip Galio.
Kynami1 votes
her too.
JavelinJoe1 votes
goodbye your regen will be missed.
Nagma is back1 votes
i
and every other mage that enjoy flat mana are getting a perfect patch