Suggestion - Melee marksman

TheEdgeOfDestiny··2 votes·1,261 views

This is not a complete concept but rather an idea that would introduce smth different in gameplay. Inspired by Kled promotion.

It would be interesting to see a marksman that attacks in melee range but... His attack would be smth like a merge between LeBlanc's Distortion and Draven's Spinning Axe. After issuing attack command - champion jumps at enemy and attacks it (for 0.25 seconds) and after attacking jumps back to a random location near point before attacking.

Pros: -interesting mechanic and gameplay: he can camp from a bush and be really annoying, he can be rooted or stunned on attack so considering enemy cooldowns would make player think active, godlike kiting (kind of, look below for update), interesting interactions with other abilities like Taliyah or Jarvan wall -breaking "4th wall": this champion would be really hard to click on to attack (attack move can be blocked by minions or other champions)

Some other ideas: -he can have a constant attack speed (Jhin) or scale with AS; with scaling attack speed enemy frustration would be even bigger and player who plays this champion would need to react (position after attack) even quicker -this feature is champion's passive and scales with levels - radius after attack gets bigger -abilities that compliment this attack type and kiting: Q - attacks the enemy with more damage (or additional effect) and jumps further back from starting point, W - mark enemy champion for a period of time, grants bonus movement speed towards him and generates stacks, attacking this champion consumes stacks and deals bonus damage, E - becomes stealthed for 0.25 seconds every 1 second for 3/4/5/6/7 seconds

update 2016-07-18 -Comparing to Quinn's E - this champion lands in a random spot in vicinity of origin, while Quinn lands closer or further in straight line, additionally in Quinn's ability there is no delay between attack and jumping back while it has a 0.25 seconds attack animation and can be caught or attacked in this period -Regarding kiting. It would be really easy to kite with such attack. But since it has a duration on attack - it can be attacked back or caught. It may bring strange visuals for melee champs thought. To resolve this window for melee champs can be shorter 100-150 ms which will work with attack move or players with good reaction/prediction. Difference in window between mellee and ranged counter attacks is also justified by the fact that melee have bigger base damage and are tankier. -Ability interactions: Root. If rooted it can attack only in melee (becomes pure melee). If rooted during its attack animation - it doesn't jump back after root ends (same with other had CC like stun or knocked airborne). -Return point after attacking is marked and visible only for player. It may also be marked. Hard to predict how big displacement bonus is. For example marking Draven axes gives opponents opportunity to play around ability as well as it gives Draven decision. This champion doesn't have decision so marking for the enemy can make him more vulnerable.

40 Comments

True Lizard4 votes

accept that its literally impossible because marksmen are ranged its literally the defining factor in wheither they are called a marksman if they are melee they are classed assassin because its required to do the damage instantly or they die. The closest thing to a melee marksman is YI. and no marksman is not the same as ADC. so how about you learn what a marksman is before making stupid requests.

The Last Ballad1 votes

Wow. Was there no way of putting that nicely? Or even not hostilely?

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

Attack is ranged. Look at this as attacker is a projectile that bounces back.

bleufromage1 votes

I would think that a marksman involves skill shots considering in the true sense of the word it refers to a shooter using a bow or a gun to hit something/somone. Yi is not at all even able to be called a marksman. Zed would even be closer to a marksman but he is in fact an assassin.

Marshbouy1 votes

Graves riot has done this. look at how well its gone.

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

Graves : They nerfed his cigar though :(

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

Graves is ranged. :)) Read op.

warpenguin5551 votes

they tried this with morde. didnt work too well.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

Morde is pure melee.

MisterHealYoGirl1 votes

Melee marksmen do exist; Tryndamere, Yasuo, and Master Yi cleave closest to the marksman mold. Old Fiora also fit into this category. Jax, Aatrox, and some Trundle builds could also be considered marksmen, though they tend more towards on-hits than crit chance.

MisterHealYoGirl1 votes

I mean it's not like your jumper fits that definition. I was using the League one. "A marksman sacrifices defensive power and utility to focus on dealing strong, continuous damage to individual targets. Typically focused on using their basic attacks more than their abilities, marksmen have the capability to scale and deal out devastating levels of damage in the late phase of any game."

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

It does. He is an attacker and a projectile at the same time.

I think Riot redefined marksman in order to have unique champions defined as marksman. Like Mordekaiser.

MisterHealYoGirl1 votes

That definition is two years old today, actually. http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3672374&page=1#post39858469

I wasn't trying to say that your idea has no merit, or that it's not interesting; I was just pointing out that melee-based AD carries already exist.

Xeruon1 votes

We already have melee ADCs, Yasuo, Yi, Fiora, and Trynd to name a few. But they do fill a different niche than your Ashes and Lucians.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

You misread. I wrote "marksman" and not "adc".

Xeruon1 votes

That's the same thing from my knowledge.

But anway, a melee "marksman" won't work unless they're extremely overtuned and gimmicky, see Morde.

khorney1 votes

Thresh and azir are melee marksmen

The Last Ballad1 votes

You mean "non projectile marksmen", melee is 120-250(edit: 125-200) range. Ranged is 400-whatever is the highest range currently(I think it is ulted Twitch with 800) Thresh is 450 and Azir is even higher, so definitely not melee.

khorney1 votes

Marksmen mean range . Thresh and azir are pretty much melee ranged champs

The Last Ballad1 votes

Thresh I could understand, as you could interpret the scythe as a melee weapon, and he can proc melee range only stuff by attacking within the 250 range, but Azir? He shoots a stream of sand/energy stuff. It can't be be intercepted by windwall or unbreakable, but it is in no way melee(it also never procs melee only items like item 3074 no matter what range you are attacking from). His soldiers also have a range of 375(spell effect by the games standards, so range does not really matter) and an effective attack range from Azir of 1175.

The only melee marksman would by Kayle, as she is melee(125) unless she uses her e which gives her another 400 range for 525 total range. She also is the only person other than thresh that can proc both item 3074, whose passive can only be used by melee people, and item 3085, which is ranged only, depending on weather her e is on or off, for thresh it depends on the range of his target from him.

Basically, the game determines melee and ranged by the max range they attack(only exception is Thresh, but I said this multiple times). Azir has 525 range, so he is ranged by the game's standards, regardless of how he attacks.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Range This page has a list of each champ and what their range classifies them as. Nither Thresh or Azir are melee/ranged. Nid, Elise, Jayce, Gnar, and Kayle would be though.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

Azir's attack is not projectile. That is why no interaction with WW and Unbreakable.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

Azir is ranged :D

Critmaster Garen1 votes

what youre describing sounds like quinns kick. just as a basic attack. i dont see the point.

it also creates issues like with kallista. if the backflip takes the champion always a fixed distance to his opponent, he would be able to kite melees indefinitely.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

It's a bit different: -Champion lands to a random location in vicinity of origin (Quinn lands a bit closer or further in straight line), Quinn's attack is instant, this champion has 0.25s duration -It has way shorter "cooldown" and affects gameplay differently (kiting, harder to click on)

he would be able to kite melees indefinitely

Yes. This is intentional and pointed in original post. :) Don't look at this as a serious functional document or smth. It's just a fun idea. Additionally since it has a duration on attack - he can be attacked in this moment. With attack move for example.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

Omg. That's a lot of comments. :))

Stellafreyja1 votes

The only problem with this is clarity. If the champion is jumping from point A to point B with every auto attack, landing skillshots on them would probably be a nightmare. Also, if traditional marksman are rooted, they can obvious still attack because they use projectiles, but a melee Marksman bouncing back and forth on units may be confusing to see and make you wonder if you actually CC'd them.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

If the champion is jumping from point A to point B with every auto attack, landing skillshots on them would probably be a nightmare.

Yes. This is the idea. :D Also kiting would be a thing. It would be really hard to catch smth that changes position after attack (original idea was that it returns to a random location in the radius of point before attacking). I feel this can be hard to balance but what the heck. This is just a post on boards. :)

Also, if traditional marksman are rooted, they can obvious still attack because they use projectiles, but a melee Marksman bouncing back and forth on units may be confusing to see and make you wonder if you actually CC'd them.

He cannot jump while rooted but can attack in melee range and doesn't return to original point after root ends.

The only problem with this is clarity.

Yeh. The clarity is the thing in here. You either need to step away from standards and make unique interactions or have weird results. I don't see it as a problem for players. We have Azir that has unique interactions and gameplay.

Quepha1 votes

Random player location sounds like a really bad mechanic, players would become very disoriented while playing their own champion and would probably be constantly screwing up movements. Playing with locked camera might be borderline epilepsy-inducing and playing without locked camera means you completely lose track of where your character is.

He also doesn't work at all as a marksman since his attacks always give him a little bit of time in melee range with the enemy, all they have to do is right click him and they automatically get an auto attack every time he attacks. Attacking the enemy tank means they'd almost surely be taking damage from the enemy marksman, and you're probably going to die faster than the tank does.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

Random player location sounds like a really bad mechanic, players would become very disoriented while playing their own champion

Draven. But I will add marking of return location in updated post.

Playing with locked camera might be borderline epilepsy-inducing

People play with locked camera for a really small amount of time when playing mobas first time. It is really handicapping.

all they have to do is right click him and they automatically get an auto attack every time he attacks

Yes. This is the idea. If opponent is fast enough or if he can predict attacked target and time - he can punish. Or he can use attack move but it would be useless in lane with minions.

Attacking the enemy tank means they'd almost surely be taking damage from the enemy marksman, and you're probably going to die faster than the tank does

Hmm. This is interesting. Teamfighting really may be a problem. But... it also may just require different from conventional marksmen play style.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

Draven.

Draven's location is not determined randomly. That isn't remotely similar.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

It is. Despite the fact it determined by his movement - there is a random factor to it.

You can somewhat predict where champion will return (return point determined by the original point of attack). Also adding mark on the ground completely solves the problem with player being disoriented.

bleufromage1 votes

Its random if you dont input a movement command if you do then it falls exactly where it should.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

It's as random as Draven axes.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

Added some interactions based on comments in update.

Reikken1 votes

Interesting idea. I'd like to see it explored more thoroughly.

However, making it like Quinn's skill would be pretty obviously OP, but if it just takes you back to where you started, it would be fine. or even underpowered, due to decreased ability to kite.

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

Thanks. :)

I added some clarifications to post. Comparing to Quinn's Vault: -champion returns in random location in radius of origin (Quinn changes position in straight line further or closer to attacked enemy) -champion can be attacked back or CCd during attack animation (Quinn cannot as far as I know also this would make kiting less frustrating for the enemy)

notice me Sin pi1 votes

we already have one MasterYi but people decided it's not fit that way. And depending on how u build, we also have Trundle Tryndamere Yasuo XinZhao Pantheon n a lot more

TheEdgeOfDestiny1 votes

You're saying smth that is nowhere near to thing described in post.

More from Gameplay

More by TheEdgeOfDestiny