Boo Hoo all you have to do is build "2 damage items and then full tank". OP! What the fuck is wrong

Critkeeper·Mar 7, 2016·8 votes·1,351 views

with you people.

If you had it your way only full tanks and full glass would exist in league.

Stop bitching about people building a blend of durability and damage, and stop bitching about losing to it.

"I'm losing to a balanced mix of offense and defense! Boo hoo! I should be able to win against a balanced build with my gimpy full glass / tank! Its not fair!"

This is like people bitching about metagolemn in early season 2. Either get on board or get the fuck off the train, because unlike metagolemn the new itemization slant towards mixed offense / defense clearly aint stopping any time soon.

17 Comments

VerxintMar 7, 20165 votes

B-b-b-but I can't build Randuins on an ADC I haven't seen Gosu do that so it must not be good

NahuiMar 7, 20163 votes

The problem is champions like Mundo or Tahm kench that have damage that scale off of building tanky.

You should get what you build. Simple as that. Building hard damage shouldn't get you tanky. Building hard tanky should not get you damage.

If you build 2 damage items and 4 tanky items, you should deal less damage than someone that built 3+ damage items but be tankier than anyone that built less than 4 tanky items. That is not the case, which is why so many tanks are currently being banned.

ProfDrDeathMar 7, 20162 votes

The complaints mostly come from people who get roflstomped by said builds for not buying any defense at all. You know, persons who refuse to buy item 3139 or item 3046 or any item 1053 item on their ADC and then wonder why they break like wet kitchen paper. People, you ARE wet kitchen tissue if you don't invest into anything defensive.

Now, there are certainly arguments to be made for certain champions sitting to high on the scale of offense/defense - but 90% offense and 20% defense is equally too strong as 55% offense and 55% defense.

For others, their damage is simply too reliable - making a lot of situations simple stat-checks. A lot of champions focused around point&(right)click abilities are that way.

AMYS GRAVEMar 7, 20162 votes

item 3931 item 3124 +full tank from the jungle (who gets less gold on average) does more damage than many full damage solo laners (who have more gold).

Some tanks that are building full tank are doing more damage from building nothing but tank items compared to full damage solo laners.

There's a reason Atmas was removed from the game.

ProfDrDeathMar 7, 20162 votes

That damage disparity mainly comes from two sources:

item 3931 doubles on-hits and has 60 base damage in addition to its increased AS. 60 damage is, in fact, comparable to 60 AD if no Crit is build, as far as auto-attacks are concerned. And it makes every second hit apply on-hit effects twice, which is a rather ridiculous effect...

...especially when you think about Fervor of Battle. By the time Devourer is sated, each stack gives you at least 7-8 damage (for 8 stacks, 56-64 damage), giving you another powerful on-hit effect.

And none of these effects is particular expensive in the gold department. Fervor, in fact, cost 0 gold, only mastery points, and Devourer is the cheapest of the four jungle enchants.

If full damage solo laners had access to Phantom Hit, they'd ooze out even more damage, due to the higher gold access you mentioned.

Btw, Titanic Hydra is even better than Rageblade with that build.

redniwediSMar 7, 20161 votes

There is a reason Atmas was removed, but it's not because of tanks.

Do you even remember back then? Riven, Twisted Fate, and champions like them were building tank simply because Atmas allowed them to do comparable damage while being tough to kill.

Tanks are allowed to do damage, the problem comes in when non-tanks can build like tanks and still have their full damage. No matter how OP you think that item combo is someone who builds that and then goes tank will do less damage than if they had gone with an actual damage build.

Try to be objective here. They don't do more damage, they do less but with higher survivability. Basically they can last a whole lot longer, and therefore do their damage over a longer period of time. This is not the same thing as the Fratmogs problem.

AMYS GRAVEMar 7, 20161 votes

Do you even remember back then? Riven, Twisted Fate, and champions like them were building tank simply because Atmas allowed them to do comparable damage while being tough to kill.

Sounds like something else i know: item 3053

redniwediSMar 7, 20162 votes

It's a different problem. There are plenty of similarities, but it's a different root problem with a different final result.

The meta back then, while very snowbally, was not particularly fast when compared to today. To keep up with the speed of the current meta many damage dealers are looking toward defense. If you can't deal damage faster you might as well deal damage for longer.

That, in my eyes, is the true problem here. I would bet money that if Riot finds a way to slow down the meta this whole thing will resolve itself.

RaoulMar 7, 20162 votes

The problem is that alot of champion (aka the must picks) can build that way, become as tanky as a full tank while dealing damage as a glasscannon. Jack of all trades, masters of everything. And by doing this, they make every champion that actually cant do EVERYTHING at once not viable.

mogonkMar 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that alot of champion (aka the must picks) can build that way, become as tanky as a full tank while dealing damage as a glasscannon.

No. They can't. They would be tankier if they built full tank. They would do more damage if they built glass cannon. That's how items work.

what the fuck are you even talking about

redniwediSMar 7, 20161 votes

People just like to complain. Why on Earth that is I couldn't begin to tell you, but they will find any reason to complain if they really want to.

Just yesterday I went against a team that complained about my team's composition, simply because we were a 4 man premade with odd picks. They said they felt bad for our pug, who didn't seem to mind our picks in the slightest.

You should have seen the amount of salt that came out of them when Mid Garen, Support Illaoi, and bot lane carry AP Anivia won the match...

Ohana Means RektMar 7, 20161 votes

They threw damn hard lol

ff4skMar 7, 20161 votes

"yeah guys what is wrong with building a fuck ton of armor yet still dealing damage equal to that of an adc? WHY CAN'T I HAVE BOTH DAMAGE AND A FUCK TON OF HEALTH AND ARMOR?!!"

I mean for one it isn't fair on everybody else and two it makes the game insanely unbalanced. Maybe it's fun for you to abuse riot's balancing choices and slam your head on your keyboard for a free win but everybody else not abusing champions is having a bad time and is just rolling their eyes at you the entire time while you jerk yourself in all chat about how you're so pro and everybody else sucks.

If you were older than 12 you'd see that having a champion that does everything in a team game with several roles is an issue. It makes other champions who can't abuse tanky items unplayable, it sucks the enjoyment out of the game for anybody who isn't abusing tank items and would eventually make people quit playing because they're tired of having to play against the same 4 champions every game over and over again.

If there were some way to play around this or counter it i'd say sure yeah but there isn't. you either abuse tank items or get facerolled on by a prepubescent autistic child.

mogonkMar 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

"yeah guys what is wrong with building a fuck ton of armor yet still dealing damage equal to that of an adc?

Except literally nobody in the game does that. Because it's impossible.

Some people don't know the difference between "enough damage to kill someone" and "as much damage as an adc". If you really think they're the same, go back to fucking elementary school, because you failed arithmetic.

ff4skMar 8, 20161 votes

mate if you deal enough damage to kill an adc with 3 or 4 hits WHILE being extremely tanky it doesn't matter if you're dealing the same numbers as an adc or not. You're still getting the best of both worlds. A tank's job isn't to fucking burst everyone while still getting all the benefits of being tanky. A tank's job is just that, to tank damage, not deal a fuck ton of it.

AlwaysByMySideMar 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

with you people.

If you had it your way only full tanks and full glass would exist in league.

Stop bitching about people building a blend of durability and damage, and stop bitching about losing to it.

"I'm losing to a balanced mix of offense and defense! Boo hoo! I should be able to win against a balanced build with my gimpy full glass / tank! Its not fair!"

This is like people bitching about metagolemn in early season 2. Either get on board or get the fuck off the train, because unlike metagolemn the new itemization slant towards mixed offense / defense clearly aint stopping any time soon.

I'd agree. People who complain about Fiora and Yi building a lot of survivability don't seem to realize that, though they are still doing good damage, it doesn't compare to their damage when full glass cannon. These builds are just letting them survive longer, so they can put out their damage for a longer period of time.

GenghisEmoMar 7, 20161 votes

Fiora is still unhealthy or Akali is still inhealthy.

Fiora from %hp true dmg. Otherwise, any other %hp dmg wouldnt be so bad (cant really counter true dmg effectively).

Akali, on other hand though smart and even i recommend it, is to show us how sad that champ is overall. Poor Akali =(

As for ADCs, it is pretty funny. The changes in Season made a huge difference.

All others, i dont mind.

Ive just accepted Sated, Rageblade + Full Tank to equal more burst that burst based champs, and more Damage Overall Overtime than say some Jauggernauts or some DoT mages.