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why does league favor auto attack based champions over ad casters.

MunchCrunchLunch··4 votes·2,289 views

Why do i have to win within 20 minutes if am an ad caster? why can't I 1v1 any champion that is auto attack dependant as an ad caster? I play a lot of yi. jax. jax is my most played champs. if there were 3 renektons. full build. I can 1v3 them as jax or yi. its stupid. why does league of fucking legends give that much of an edge yo champions that use auto attacks? ad champs we're speaking here? adcs. mele carries. its so fucking one sided that I can't play a champion like renetkon if the other team has a shyvanna or a yi. no my whole team focusing one person is not a good enough counterplay. its not. why doesn't any champion get focused by the whole team? because some champions are just gonna kill your whole team and some others just you know. are normal champios. can we get some parity here?

nobody is gonna be like " oh no we better shut that renekton/pantheon/wukong down because they will shred our team in 3 second in a team fight". mean while you can kill the entire team as yi/jax/ any adc. devoure rageblade champion. in the period it takes these champion to kill like 1 person with their cooldowns.

22 Comments

Mayor Stubbs2 votes

You need to understand different champions have different strengths and weaknesses and they are designed to be played around.

Renekton is stronger early game, although he isn't as strong 1v1 as Jax or yi late game. You think the late game champs like jax or Yi are more op? - then play champs like that and you'll realize their weaknesses soon enough.

In addition, try not to think of it all as 1v1 or even 1v2. Renekton brings different things to a 5v5 team fight than Jax does.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mayor Stubbs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f5HQlGwE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-03T20:54:14.582+0000)

You need to understand different champions have different strengths and weaknesses and they are designed to be played around.

Renekton is stronger early game, although he isn't as strong 1v1 as Jax or yi late game. You think the late game champs like jax or Yi are more op? - then play champs like that and you'll realize their weaknesses soon enough.

In addition, try not to think of it all as 1v1 or even 1v2. Renekton brings different things to a 5v5 team fight than Jax does.

what does renekton bring that jax doesn't? Jax has an AOE cc meanwhile renekton has a CC that is much less reliable.

let me change the topic.

why can't I as an ad caster 1v1 an auto attack based champion? i get it. my cooldowns are longer than their 2.5 AS auto attacks that chunk 1/4 of my health. and lifesteal. lifesteal is too broken on them. but that just shouldn't be a SET IN STONE thing as it is right now. there is just no way around it.

AlwaysByMySide1 votes

{quoted}

what does renekton bring that jax doesn't? Jax has an AOE cc meanwhile renekton has a CC that is much less reliable.

let me change the topic.

why can't I as an ad caster 1v1 an auto attack based champion? i get it. my cooldowns are longer than their 2.5 AS auto attacks that chunk 1/4 of my health. and lifesteal. lifesteal is too broken on them.

Because ad casters tend to have stronger early games.

Also, frankly, some can. Nasus is an AD caster and can easily 1v1 Jax, though Yi is harder.

Mayor Stubbs2 votes

{quoted}

what does renekton bring that jax doesn't? Jax has an AOE cc meanwhile renekton has a CC that is much less reliable.

Renekton has a CC that is much MORE reliable, his Q and ult are big AOE damage, he has a double dash vs just 1 dash. He has more built in tankiness in his kit and because of this he is designed to be in the middle of fights soaking up dmg and being a nuisance - while if Jax is played the same way he will get blown up and die pretty quickly.

Jax is more designed to go in after abilities are used by the enemy and jump on someone

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

what does renekton bring that jax doesn't?

more mobility, more early game power, more aoe damage, he works better with more tankiness, he's resourceless.

AlwaysByMySide2 votes

{quoted}

nobody is gonna be like " oh no we better shut that renekton/pantheon/[b]wukong[/b] down because they will shred our team in 3 second in a team fight".

They probably should, because Wukong has considerably more impact in a team fight than Jax or Yi, and scales just as hard, if not in a 1v1.

A fed Jax or Yi can 1v1 almost any champion in the game.

A fed Wukong blows up your entire backline before killing your front line.

Mysticman892 votes

I was actually under the impression ad casters were the strong ones currently, in contrast with the late game AA champs favoured towards the end of last season.

Between the relatively short game times now and thunderlords being readily procable on most ad casters, it can be rough for an aa based champ who doesn't have time to scale up.

fractalfantasies2 votes

20 mins to smack about a carry is more than enough time to grab a lead.

A more pertinent question is why does this board not realise that some champs by design have to be shut down early?

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

20 mins to smack about a carry is more than enough time to grab a lead.

A more pertinent question is why does this board not realise that some champs by design have to be shut down early?

because it shouldn't be in stone that aa carries are better than ad casters in all situations late game. which they are. it should be specific to the champion. not. specific to what type of champion they are. its just too one sided and quite frankly lame. at least in the elo I play at.

for example. ugh. hypothetically.

jinx is good early game. bad late game.

sivir is bad early game. good late game.

but. since all the items are the same. and all that an adc or a mele carry has to do. is buy the same damn items. do the same damn damage. and all he has to do is. right click the mouse on you to win the fight. is just play toxic. we need more counterplay to auto attack based champions.

AlwaysByMySide1 votes

{quoted}

because it shouldn't be in stone that aa carries are better than ad casters in all situations late game. which they are. it should be specific to the champion. not. specific to what type of champion they are. its just too one sided and quite frankly lame. at least in the elo I play at.

Fiora is an AD caster who can also 1v1 many AA based melee carries.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f5HQlGwE,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-02-03T21:01:58.306+0000)

Fiora is an AD caster who can also 1v1 many AA based melee carries.

because of her % max health true damage that can 4 shot most champions. with her stupid scalings.but then again after a rotation she can be taken down. and she is also. an aa champion. more than an ad caster.

AlwaysByMySide1 votes

{quoted}

she is also. an aa champion. more than an ad caster.

No.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f5HQlGwE,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-03T21:06:25.494+0000)

No.

YES. what does her true damage. basic attacks. thank you jesus.

fractalfantasies1 votes

Carries are by definition good late game...

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

{quoted}

Carries are by definition good late game...

the thing is. i don't know why carries is tied to auto attack specifically. i get why. but I don't get why other champions aren't. ad casters in this case.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

the thing is. i don't know why carries is tied to auto attack specifically. i get why. but I don't get why other champions aren't. ad casters in this case.

You quoted my huge post that explained exactly why.

fractalfantasies1 votes

I do agree with this.

It would make sense if it were that the game has carries, which are casters (AP or AD) in addition to AA carries as well as AA champs which are not carries.

Quepha2 votes

Auto attacks deal sustained damage over time Abilities deal bursts of damage with cooldowns Obviously in a long fight, a focus on sustained damage will deal more total damage Also, a champ generally has 3 abilities and an ultimate all on independent cooldowns, this means you can use all 4 of those abilities to front-load all your burst in a fight for damage that can kill a champion before they could get off more than 2 autos. That is the strength of ability focused champions over auto focused.

In terms of early game vs. late game: Abilities gain base damage from levels, and champions will focus on leveling their best ability first (usually the one that will give them the most damage in a fight) Eventually you can no longer put points into an ability and you will stop getting these increases from level. Autos scale primarily with gold, only occasionally do they gain passive bonuses from abilities, and usually those are in ways that also scale very well with gold (on-hits that benefit from attack speed, or attack speed that benefits from everything else) item scaling lasts for a lot longer than ability scaling as a true 6 item dream build is usually outside the scope of a complete game and autos have several additional 'multiplier' stats that cause them to scale faster once the champion has enough gold to diversify its use among several damage stats. Auto focused champions generally have weak early games and use their autos to farm a lot of gold until the late game when they can carry a team fight with their sustained damage.

These are pretty basic principles about fundamental game concepts of League that generally hold true unless there is an unusual mechanic on a kit that forces a champion to work differently from this framework.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

Auto attacks deal sustained damage over time Abilities deal bursts of damage with cooldowns Obviously in a long fight, a focus on sustained damage will deal more total damage Also, a champ generally has 3 abilities and an ultimate all on independent cooldowns, this means you can use all 4 of those abilities to front-load all your burst in a fight for damage that can kill a champion before they could get off more than 2 autos. That is the strength of ability focused champions over auto focused.

In terms of early game vs. late game: Abilities gain base damage from levels, and champions will focus on leveling their best ability first (usually the one that will give them the most damage in a fight) Eventually you can no longer put points into an ability and you will stop getting these increases from level. Autos scale primarily with gold, only occasionally do they gain passive bonuses from abilities, and usually those are in ways that also scale very well with gold (on-hits that benefit from attack speed, or attack speed that benefits from everything else) item scaling lasts for a lot longer than ability scaling as a true 6 item dream build is usually outside the scope of a complete game and autos have several additional 'multiplier' stats that cause them to scale faster once the champion has enough gold to diversify its use among several damage stats. Auto focused champions generally have weak early games and use their autos to farm a lot of gold until the late game when they can carry a team fight with their sustained damage.

These are pretty basic principles about fundamental game concepts of League that generally hold true unless there is an unusual mechanic on a kit that forces a champion to work differently from this framework.

a long fight. is like 2 seconds if your against a master yi.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

a long fight. is like 2 seconds if you're against a master yi.

Late game. If you're squishy. And he doesn't get hit with cc. And you get within range of him.

Yumifries1 votes

True I believe it favors in that "hyper carry" mentality where you have to stomp them early game else they just tear through anything late game with their auto attack spells/items/speed buffs.

Kaioko1 votes

I believe the answer has been given by everyone else - but the champions you're talking about have different roles. Jax and Yi are good at single target damage and are hyper carries who require quite a bit of gold to become truly powerful. On the other hand you mention someone like Renekton whose role is meant to shut down someone in lane early in order to gain an advantage and then plays as more of a tank in team fights.

There are plenty of late game ad caster as well think of all the yasuos, talon, fiora, wukongs etc...

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