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I'd trade a Garen nerf for a Jax nerf anytime

8Belthazor8··36 votes·13,216 views

People are all about how overbuffed Garen is while Jax just running around with way more cancerous and broken gameplay. There is essentially no counterplay against Jax after 20 minutes.

You cannot kite him since his ms is above 400 with only tier 1 boots and his jump is on 3.6 s cooldown so he can jump around like fucking Mario. Okay, he is mobile, not the end of the world, there are many mobile champions in the game. He can also literally one-shot adc-s and two-shot bruisers. Okay, Rengar also jumps on you from high distance and one-shots his target. His E is probably the most overloaded ability in the entire game. It stuns a huge area around him and deals damage. These two would make an ability good with its 4.8 s cooldown alone but that is not enough for Riot. It has to block every single aa which makes every adc useless while also reduces the damage of area of effect abilities. What the actual fuck Riot?! Then here comes his ult that also has a low cooldown just to make sure he can use it in every teamfight. It makes Jax a damn tank while also boosting his damage.

Put these all together and give him any form of lifesteal (not necessary btw): what we get is an unkillable tank that deals assassin level of damage with adc level of attack speed while being the most mobile champion in the game. Yet, I haven't even mentioned this piece of shit item item 3161 because it is not what makes Jax broken, it is just the cherry on the cake. It makes his already low cooldowns (3.6, 1.8, 4.8) nonexisting. Yesterday, I saw a Jax pentakill the enemy team twice while the score was something like 25-42 before that. It was just Jax literally jump into 1v5 with his E constantly up and he killed everyone without losing 1/3rd of his hp. How stupid is that? I bet everyone witnessed similar situations before. Jax is just unbearable in the hands of a competent player which is not rare since the difficulty of this champion is barely above Garen.

So please Riot, after you nerfed Garen next patch, could you take a look at this abomination called Jax and make him to be a champion again? Thank you.

88 Comments

Diävolo22 votes

I think Jax should get nerfed. Garen too. But Fiora should be deleted.

Nielarken3 votes

Delete riven and flora then need him.

TracyzDgDqF2 votes

Agree with the deleting of riven and fiora but jax is fine.

TracyzDgDqF1 votes

Nerf a dueling champion for being a good duelist? LoL community in a nutshell!!

Nithke3 votes

Dueling just means she's good at 1v1s, Fiora and Riven are so good "duelist" that they can duel a whole team and that's not right

Hayaishi221 votes

Agreed. If Garen gets nerfed Jax needs to be dumpstered.

Charmy Bird14 votes

All Jax needs is revert his q buffs and remove shojin. I legit see no reason for shojin to exist rather than break champions. Renekton and Jax have legit 0 cooldowns with it and they can stun people non stop. Jaxs original counterplay was the fact he had Hugh cooldowns and jumping and using e was a risk but with shojin he can just spam his abilities like crazy

Ragnaveil6 votes

I'd trade the nerf for Fiora and Trynd nerfs so they have a weak early game people can use. And a change for Illaoi E so post mitigation damage gets reflected back instead of pre so she isnt one shotting people pre or post black cleaver. Her bases combined with tentacles are enough.

Minimac20001 votes

{quoted}

I'd trade the nerf for Fiora and Trynd nerfs so they have a weak early game people can use. And a change for Illaoi E so post mitigation damage gets reflected back instead of pre so she isnt one shotting people pre or post black cleaver. Her bases combined with tentacles are enough.

I perma ban fiora but I main illaoi, and there is something you are missing in your comment Illaoi spirit specifically has no armor/mr so that the target doesn't double dip. If it worked the other way her e would literally never do any damage because you are running it through 50-100 armor twice instead of once I also think it's really cool that effects applied to the spirit, like black cleaver cleave are also transferred to the spirit owner (almost like it's attached to them :O) but could see this being ok to be removed bc losing 60% of your armor for 5 seconds from getting hit with an e feels pretty bad. The other other thing you aren't thinking about tho, is every top laner has some way of dealing with a gank. For most of the cancer in top lane it's dash away 7 times bc the jg can't touch you. For darius and illaoi, they are not given any possible means of escape. Therefore they have to be strong enough to fight (and win) 1v2 in favorable situations. I.e. if she didn't oneshot when she hits erwq in her safe space and you were dumb enough to stand there and not flash away she would be entirely useless. I mean its that or triple her w range and let her hop to wards so she has an escape, your choice

Sinister Anubis1 votes

{quoted}

I'd trade the nerf for Fiora and Trynd nerfs so they have a weak early game people can use. And a change for Illaoi E so post mitigation damage gets reflected back instead of pre so she isnt one shotting people pre or post black cleaver. Her bases combined with tentacles are enough.

both need nerfs

only luciano6 votes

It's so weird that they removed the disarm from Irelia's ult but Jax has his anti AA ability up every 6 seconds.

toby mcteague4 votes

Maybe because Irelia’s old ult used to win her every teamfight. Btw disarm prevents you from attacking, and that includes abilities. Jax doesnt stop you from attacking, he just blocks your shit. You can still attack a different target, and use abulities on jax. Irelia, you cant aa or use abilities. Which one sounds more bullshit to you? Do you even read abilities?

only luciano3 votes

{quoted}

Maybe because Irelia’s old ult used to win her every teamfight. Btw disarm prevents you from attacking, and that includes abilities. Jax doesnt stop you from attacking, he just blocks your shit. You can still attack a different target, and use abulities on jax. Irelia, you cant aa or use abilities. Which one sounds more bullshit to you? Do you even read abilities?

I don't think you can read well because according to the league wiki it only prohibited AA and enhanced AA like Nasus Q. I also like the fact you disregarded the fact that it's an ultimate, not a base ability that's on a 6 second cool down like Jax. Irelia's ult can come up every 56 seconds LATE game. Also, it's a skill shot and it can be baited out. And they also recently nerfed the range on it too.

TracyzDgDqF1 votes

Thats because she is a diver not a DUELIST. Riot didn't intend for irelia to be a skirmisher.

only luciano1 votes

{quoted}

Thats because she is a diver not a DUELIST. Riot didn't intend for irelia to be a skirmisher.

Who else is a diver?

FreakishMovie1 votes

Jax and Kled come to mind whenever I think of divers.

Afk on Lane1 votes

Old irelia before a nerf, was able to kill whole back lane and come out with full hp, because of this disarm, that's why it was removed. She was able to 1v1 jax, I know it from experience.

toby mcteague4 votes

His ms is not above 400 after tier 1 boots wtf are you smoking. Jax does not 1 shot squishies. He does not 2 shot bruisers.

And wait a second. You’re playing 5 adcs against a jax? Your team was too stupid to AA him while counter strike is up? Your team didnt use abilities on him? He didnt lose a 3rd of his HP 1v5?

So Im assuming the jax was like 20/0, full build while no one even finished their 3rd item, and he had a 6 lvl lead over everyone else. Gotchu. Thats pretty normal then. Cause hes super far ahead. Oh, and while youre at it, why not link the game? Why are you posting on an alt account?

Posts like these are why Boards are just a void evho chamber with no meaning discussion.

8Belthazor81 votes

His ms is not above 400 after tier 1 boots wtf are you smoking.

link

It took like 1 minute to debunk your statement. I don't mind that you are ignorant asf but how difficult it is to go and check something you don't know in practice tool at least before you post your shit?

Posts like these are why Boards are just a void evho chamber with no meaning discussion.

Meanwhile the real reasons are ignorant players like you who has iron level of game knowledge. Get off your high horse.

Wimbledofy1 votes

slightly magical boots+trinity force =/= tier 1 boots. That's tier 1.5 boots with the most expensive move speed item on top of it.

8Belthazor81 votes

I said he can run around with 400+ms with tier one boots which is a true statement. It is very basic knowledge that Jax builds triforce and magical boots are also a common rune for him. If you or the other guy don't know such things then shouldn't get involved, especially with his attitude. Making excuses based on ignorance ( "I didn't know Jax builds triforce...") is not a valid argument.

Wimbledofy1 votes

"only tier one boots" no that's not a true statement. Requiring any other items in addition to base tier 1 boots means that it is not "only" tier 1 boots. That's not how it works. Magical boots and triforce being core don't mean anything. When you say someone requires only x, that means they have only x. Otherwise you can say zed oneshots with just a longsword because duskblade and black cleaver are core so those items don't count.

8Belthazor81 votes

"no counterplay against Jax after 20 minutes"

So if I don't list his items someone may think he is running around with only a pair of boots at 20+ minutes? :D

Wimbledofy1 votes

No it means if you don't list other items, that there aren't any other items contributing to the thing you said he has. You wouldn't say Jinx has 40% lifesteal with just bloodline mastery, or that lissandra has 400 ap with only a rabadon's.

Afk on Lane4 votes

item 3161 is exactly what makes jax broken. Did u ever play jax ? I don't think so. He is easly countered, if SoS will be deleted he will be dogshit, unless his team survive and jax will be able to buy 3 or 4 item to actually do something.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Hes already strong pre Spear. That is due to the buffs to his W and the power of his hybrid damage. Its extremely hard to outtrade him in any situation outside of cheese.

StormBladeMaster3 votes

I have an idea to nerf Jax and Garen and Fiora : Buff Irelia

Make her passive stack duration longer, reduce the max stacks to 4 and add a AD ratio to her W and her R. Also buff the substain on Q when she dash.

Problem solved.

Weexazys2 votes

{quoted}

I have an idea to nerf Jax and Garen and Fiora : Buff Irelia

Make her passive stack duration longer, reduce the max stacks to 4 and add a AD ratio to her W and her R. Also buff the substain on Q when she dash.

Problem solved.

Irelia is completely balanced right now, she is a little bit on the weak side, but she does not need a buff as it will just make her pick and ban again if theyre not carefull on what they mess with

StormBladeMaster1 votes

45% win rate isn't balanced at all... She is weak.

She needs to be perfectly played to be viable and even if you are good with her, she is still weak.

But her kit is stupid and cancer, that why you can't buff her. I want a revert on her rework, they should remove the 1 millions of dashes in this kit who makes her impossible to balance.

TheCrazyBoy3 votes

garen ... as garen ,but i played garen vs urgot ,and urgot was so broken on conquerer... , so why some other champions can be themself and garen can't..

TeodorusofNoxus1 votes

You sat in front of him and ate all his leg combos. You know he can't gun you down permanently till level 9 and since his q no longer a lock on(locked on tagets get focused by his W) you can just walk in a wave and his W will focus the closest minion, giving you time to run or turn on him. He is also slowed while using his W so how did you die as Garen is beyond me.

Salron881 votes

right becouse its super easy to run away from him when he throws you.by the time you get away from him w you are half health if not near his ult health range, and he can still break your q with his when you try to re engage in the fight. not that if you go in you got the dmg to finish him before his w comes on again.

Wimbledofy1 votes

You can dodge his throw. Garen Q removes all slows. In general though if you get hit by a champions cc, you already weren't meant to get away from them at that point.

TheCrazyBoy1 votes

well , there are champions who outplay hard garen, like jinx e and basics range , and there is gnar who also can be extremly powerful vs garen , played around walls combo .

Garen can't do anything if he dosn't risk himself in front line... , if he gets cc ed or slowed down , he can't do nothing ,is that kind of champion who you have to keep distance far away of him , likely you have to keep of darius q... , and slow and e ... , he is kind of okey ,but the low elo complains because they don't understand how to counter garen and how to play against him , i don't think he is overpowered , because he is a bruiser , same is darius and he can do much more than garen used to do before this buff.. , finally garen now feels like you can pull plays with him , they anyway plan to give top laners much more strength from what they announce... , so i feel like garen haven't received a buff in a long time , his r range is so small , he also can have problems to play vs rammus , and a good ornn player in team fights and much more...

I believe people just ain't prepared to deal with garen that's why low elo complains about garen nerf , and to be honest ,i don't even understand why would a diamond , master , challenger ,grandmaster complain about garen , where there are so many options to counter garen as a team or alone , there is ryze who just can root him and bash him and gain shield , or idk you can play lissandra vs him , the slows will make him impossible to win the lane , karma is strong top laner as well , i haven't tested her after the q scale nerf ,but i still believe she could be extremly good vs garen , also heimerdinger turrets would counter him easy.. , or a jax with good runes , i seen a jax who was beating my ass as garen ,he was full combo dealing me a lot.

There is also sion,swainn, nasus which could counter him , nasus slows him a lot.. , and also sion have strong cc , swainn can slow him a lot and his r is also strong

destroyer227193 votes

Garen is much worse. With Jax you can pick someone like Fiora. With Garen not even a ranged champion can counter him because of his insane tankyness. There is no counterplay with Garen.

Romans VI XXIII4 votes

Lol. Garen literally has the most counter play than any other champ. A close second is Udyr

Anime Fizz3 votes

Both should be nerfed.

TracyzDgDqF1 votes

Actually fizz should be nerfed because he is really insanely snowbally and one shots tank champions. Offending you? But hey let the fizz complain about a perfectly balance fighter duelist champion.....

SuffocateMeDaddy3 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/jax/euw

Ah yes such a problematic champion. Imagine getting nerfed at 50% wr all the while your win rate goes even lower the higher your rank is. You are right tho, jax is such a completely braindead champ that he deserves to be nerfed. Not garen not at all I mean spinning is such a difficult thing to do.

AirKingNeo3 votes

why are you complaining about a very modest pickrate, 50% winrate champion? https://www.op.gg/champion/jax/statistics/top

Romans VI XXIII2 votes

Exactly. Garen has Sooooooooo much counter play its sad.

TracyzDgDqF2 votes

Sorry but jax is a duelist, his power is intended. And he is melee. proof of his class riot: https://i.gyazo.com/6ee6e98c5a2c6ef6319ae4dd96eeadb2.png They won't nerf spear logically speaking, guinsoos was abused by kayle thats why it was probably nerfed. Spear is mainly used for melee champs so don't expect them to nerf it like rageblade hehe xd

EATARI1 votes

Neeko was actually the biggest culprit of Gunsoo’s. It turned her 3 hit passive W into a 2 hit passive W with double damage. That’s why she got hotfix nerfed and eventually Gunsoo’s had its passive nerfed to make sure Neeko ADC didn’t come back.

3TWarrior2 votes

item 3161 ahem

jax isn't the problem, that thing is...anyone with short cooldowns or excessive attack speed is ruined by it

Queš1 votes

Indeed, Jax has insane winrate now when Conq and shojin are stil lin the game(thye will probably get removed during preseason)

https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/

almost 50%

8Belthazor82 votes

Win rates never were and never will be the main factor in balancing. Gameplay what matters the most, not some random cherry picked numbers.

I don't even react to that you are intentionally using that garbage site that is well known to have fake statistics.

TracyzDgDqF1 votes

In that case why isnt riven nerfed? She just got buffed... Duelist casters are aids thats why there is only 2-3(yasuo, riven, fiora)

8Belthazor81 votes

What are you talking about? She got an overall 2 sec E nerf. What does Riven has to do with Jax being broken anyway?

3TWarrior2 votes

EVERY site is well known for fake statistics. First op.gg was the most accurate, then league of graphs, then lolalytics, then u.gg

A rioter makes a post about "most accurate" just about every year and they change it...fact of the matter is, they've messed up their own statistics before, such as wanting to nerf a champion for statistics FROM DIFFERENT LANES and cherry-picking the highest numbers...

to put that into perspective, a champion could have 0.1% pick rate, 60% win rate in one lane, and 10% pick rate, 50% or so win rate in another lane, and they'd take that to mean 60% win rate and 10% pick rate...

TracyzDgDqF1 votes

The only thing getting removed is riots involvement with your biased claim. Get good and realize yi, jax, garen ect needs ganks or coordination to fight them(something low elo or mostly na doesnt have).

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