His main role i believe is Juggernaut Same as Hecarim, Warwick. Darius, Mordekaiser, Garen etc. I don't know why people say that he is not Juggernaut he is a full tank Champion. What you guys think about him? I do Clearly think he is a full juggernaut because Juggernauts are still hard to kill.
WoonStruck3 votesVanguard, according to Riot.
Like Mao, Poppy, Sion, etc.
Yes they moved Sion to Vanguard too.
Hec and Warwick are not Juggernauts, fyi.
GodJormungandr1 votesHopefully they give him full rework then he is so messed up. and for Hecarim and warwick yes i just realized they are still Juggernauts but they are the Diver Juggernauts not Fighter Juggernauts.
WoonStruck3 votesWarden and Vanguard are sub-classifications of "Tank".
Juggernaut is not a "sub-sub-classification" or whatever.
Diver, Juggernaut, Assassin, Skirmisher, etc are sub-classifications of "Fighter". Technically, Assassin/Skirmisher are a sub-classification of "Slayer", but I don't really acknowledge that in the same way that Riot doesn't recognize Azir and Teemo as belonging to two separate classes.
GodJormungandr2 votesohh you are so wrong with that, Assassins are so far from Fighters, that's totally wrong.
WoonStruck3 votesThey're melee damage dealers.
I'd say Diver, Juggernaut, Assassin, and Skirmishers all have that in common.
The same way that Azir, Teemo, and ADCs all share the same sub-class.
PermabannedGaren1 votesVanguard, according to Riot.
Like Mao, Poppy, Sion, etc.
Yes they moved Sion to Vanguard too.
Hec and Warwick are not Juggernauts, fyi.
Mao and Poppy are considered wardens I think.
WoonStruck1 votesI'd say that's ass-backwards, though.
They're far more aggressive than defensive.
Meep Man3 votesSkarner is considered a Vanguard by Riot after his failure as a Juggernaut after the class update. He is designed to be a Juggernaut right now, but is generally better to pick when you need something a Vanguard would provide, not a Juggernaut. He is Vanguard/Juggernaut abomination right now that Riot plans to VGU someday.
Also, Hecarim and Warwick are more of Divers/Vanguards than Juggernauts. Far too mobile to be Juggernauts.
WoonStruck3 votesHe didn't fail as a Juggernaut. He was too successful at it.
Meep Man2 votesNo, his numbers were tuned too high at release due to PBE feedback. Now he is balanced, but plays as a Juggernaut/Vanguard hybrid than a true Juggernaut. Skarner didn't FAIL as a Juggernaut, sure, but Riot didn't rework a bunch of champions to become Juggernauts, they just made champions that would fall under the Juggernaut categories into better champions with a unique, powerhouse identity. Garen, Darius, and Mordekaiser could all be considered Juggernauts prior to the Juggernaut update.
However, Skarner couldn't be. The only Juggernaut-like part of his kit was his Q, but the rest defied the normal Juggernaut standards and made him play as more of a Vanguard than a Juggernaut. Basically, Skarner was a Vanguard that Riot tried to turn into a Juggernaut without completely reworking his kit into a Juggernaut, making him some kind of Vanguard/Juggernaut abomination that, on release, had the up-sides of both classes packed into one champion. Since then, he has been nerfed. However, he is still a Vanguard/Juggernaut abomination.
Vlädïmïr2 votesMeanwhile Poppy still has the upsides of both.
Meep Man2 votesPoppy is more like a Vanguard that is also a Diver. Meaning it's more like the unholy abomination of Malphite and Vi rather than the unholy combination of Malphite and Darius, which is still scary to think about.
GodJormungandr1 votesi like the way you thinking. I agree with you somewhat.
LostFr0st1 votesThe first iteration of his rework was slow AF. He felt like a slug. He was a true Juggernaut. But it sucked for Skarner players to play, because it just wasn't Skarner. He shouldn't have been chosen for that update to begin with, but was picked because they didn't understand how much the movespeed meant to his playerbase. So they pushed him back to Vanguard (which was Skarner to begin with) but Riot didn't have the subclasses mapped out yet.
Variks the Loyal1 votesThe first iteration of his rework was slow AF. He felt like a slug. He was a true Juggernaut. But it sucked for Skarner players to play, because it just wasn't Skarner. He shouldn't have been chosen for that update to begin with, but was picked because they didn't understand how much the movespeed meant to his playerbase. So they pushed him back to Vanguard (which was Skarner to begin with) but Riot didn't have the subclasses mapped out yet.
Juggernauts don't have to be 'slow', they can have plenty of movement speed. They just don't have good mobility - dashes, blinks and the like.
Skarner fits the Juggernaut bill just fine, the spires are the only thing wrong.
LostFr0st1 votesI'd argue that he has too much cc. He also does very little damage, far less than any Juggernaut does. Him and the others you listed I'd classify as a whole different class of fighters (disruptive fighters), except for Shyvana who fits the Juggernaut damage bill.
Variks the Loyal1 votesI'd argue that he has too much cc. He also does very little damage, far less than any Juggernaut does. Him and the others you listed I'd classify as a whole different class of fighters (disruptive fighters), except for Shyvana who fits the Juggernaut damage bill.
Riot classified all four of those champions as Juggernauts.
Skarner does a lot of damage, he just doesn't do it in bursts. Darius chunks you with one Q; Skarner lands repeated autos and Crystal Slashes with his boosted attack speed from stunning someone. My favorite thing about playing Skarner now is that, when you're full build, no one can really fight you 1 on 1, which is what Skarner was always about.
It's a trade off. Currently, he has more CC, but the trade off is his damage is based on DPS as opposed to the burst that Juggernauts like Darius and Illaoi enjoy.
That's not what I'm trying to say, though; I'm saying the Juggernaut class does not contradict Skarner's identity or playstyle. In a new rework, they could easily make him a classic Juggernaut like the others.
An important thing to know is that Skarner was never considered a tank, or an engage tank, like Sejuani or Malphite. In his original incarnation, and every incarnation since, a focus has been on him being able to deal a lot of sustained damage to nearby enemies. He also lacks explosive initiation, outside of Flash+R (That arguably a lot of Juggernauts could use). That makes him, by definition, not a tank.
LostFr0st1 votesThat was 8 months ago. I think that whole list needs to be split in two. Him and Udyr in particular run around in fights stunning people and pissing people off.
If you sort all champs by damage dealt Skarner sits in the middle of a bunch of utility supports and tanky engage junglers. http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.totalDamageDealtToChampions&order=ascend Sure if they sit on you you'll eventually kill them, but you more than likely won't get the last-hit unless you very carefully line up and time an E into sheen proc.
Variks the Loyal1 votesThat was 8 months ago. I think that whole list needs to be split in two. Him and Udyr in particular run around in fights stunning people and pissing people off.
If you sort all champs by damage dealt Skarner sits in the middle of a bunch of utility supports and tanky engage junglers. http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.totalDamageDealtToChampions&order=ascend Sure if they sit on you you'll eventually kill them, but you more than likely won't get the last-hit unless you very carefully line up and time an E into sheen proc.
They actually specifically tried to nerf Skarner stunning multiple people.
And the last hit isn't the important part of dealing damage. I've played Skarner a lot, he's one of my favorite champions, and I know his damage isn't as high as it always was, but my point is that that is Skarner's identity; a duelist who can outdamage people who sit and fight him. He was never an engage tank, like a Vanguard. I'm arguing that he should be a Juggernaut, like the other 'run down' Juggernauts.
LostFr0st1 votesK, so we're on the same page but different sides then. We both know 'Skarner.'
I mentioned the last hits only because it's what makes people scared of Juggernauts.
I truly think he's in a completely different group (with Udyr and some others) because other than his ulti Skarner mostly wants to sit in the mid-range and peel/kite/pick. He does not want to be the primary tank, nor does he actually want to be in the thick of things. He wants to kite the fight out and zip in and out depending on his cds.
He doesn't want to initiate like a vanguard (because slows, roots, and knockasides are annoying) and he also can't blow people up the way a juggernaut does.
Maybe we should call them Brawlers?
GodJormungandr1 votesWow Thanks for Comment, Finally someone else thinking that Skarner will be getting His Full visual and gameplay update, i would be soo happy, he is my favorite yet he is the most dead, and he is the most boring and worst to play.
Meep Man1 votesYeah, he has been on the VGU ever since he was nerfed after the Juggernaut update and Riot up and said they failed when changing him. My brother used to main Skarner and I think he could sympathize with you.
GodJormungandr1 votesMy dream would come True If i see Skarner on The list Of VGu, he is my favorite and first main of league after 6-7 years playing i still love him the most. :D
LostFr0st3 votesAs WoonStruck said, he didn't fail as a juggernaut. When the initial rework hit the Pbe they had sucked the speedy racecar out of him to make him a Juggernaut, and the playerbase immediately upheaved against it. They then gave him back most of the movespeed which default made him not a Juggernaut but they couldn't pull the name just due to Skarner's changes.
GodJormungandr1 votesBut he is Worst to play, Every other Champion is better than him and he definitely needs a full rework
LostFr0st1 votesHe's not though. That's just not true. The problem right now is the meta junglers are good vs him. Once they're tones down he'll be back in a good spot.
Meep Man1 votesYou are correct, he didn't fail as a Juggernaut. He succeeded at being a Juggernaut. He also succeeded at being a Vanguard. AT THE SAME TIME. This is why he failed as a rework. He wasn't primarily Juggernaut, secondary Vanguard. He was primary Juggernaut, primary Vanguard. That, by my book, is a failure. A failure can mean being too good/hybrid.
Segius1 votesI honestly dont know what the heck skarner is
GodJormungandr1 votesToo bad, He is dead i wish Riot gives him full Visual and gameplay rework like Warwick
LostFr0st1 votesSkarner isn't a juggernaut anymore, he has been reclassified as a vanguard (initiating tank) since he has too much movespeed and cc. Hecarim is a diver, much too mobile for a juggernaut as well as too much cc. Warwick is also a diver. Darius, Morde, Garen, as well as Illaoi are true juggernauts.
GodJormungandr1 votesSo divers are the Fast Juggernauts i'd say, the ones that chase to death
LostFr0st1 votesI'd say that's a stretch. Juggernauts also have consistent damage, whereas Divers have a 'burst combo.'
Sukishoo1 voteshttp://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list
Skarner is considered a Vanguard now by Riot
Hecarim, Warwick. Darius, Mordekaiser, Garen etc.
Warwick...Hecarim... they are Divers.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteshe was part of the juggernaut class rework
Aquafuge1 votesI know a little off topic but what's the difference between tank, juggernaut and vanguard?
Variks the Loyal1 votesI know a little off topic but what's the difference between tank, juggernaut and vanguard?
So Tank is a large class, encompassing Wardens and Vanguards.
Wardens are tanks like Shen and Maokai, and are supposed to focus on being defensive and peeling for their backline.
Vanguards are tanks like Sejuani and Nautilus, are supposed to charge into the enemy team and lock down multiple people with crowd control.
Fighters are likewise split into Juggernauts and Divers.
Juggernauts deal heavy damage and can take it in return. Their weakness is in their mobility; they don't get dashes or blinks, so they're easily kited around.
Aquafuge1 votesaccording to the descriptions on the link you posted Shen would be a vanguard, but thank you for clearing that up.