I mean she just makes the game soo poopy for everyone else. She gets around 280 armor and then it's basically gg you can't kill her but it's ok cause she will kill you in about 4-6 seconds with that ridiculous base damage.
RiotRiot Sotere9 votesShe's got some nerfs on the way for next patch. R damage and shield duration, I believe.
doodlebob6662 votesjust as a question, are any other toplane tanks in line for nerfs, or do you think they are in a good state?
RiotRiot Sotere5 votesTanks? Pretty sure no. Think a lot of them were too strong with the original CotC. Now that it's tuned down most of them seem reasonable.
LankPants2 votesAre you going to take a look into tank junglers at all. Currently they really seem to be struggling.
http://na.op.gg/champion/amumu/statistics/jungle
Just look at Amumu right now, that's super sad.
http://na.op.gg/champion/sejuani/statistics/jungle http://na.op.gg/champion/skarner/statistics/jungle http://lolalytics.com/champion/Nautilus/Jungle/ (too low of a play rate for op.gg, I think it's fair to assume he's not good RN though) http://na.op.gg/champion/gragas/statistics/jungle
Other jungle tanks with the exception of Zac also seem straight up bad right now.
I'm starting to think that buffing up Cinder a little and nerfing it's outlier users, Zac, Rek'sai (probably needs a soft rework) and Olaf may be the best way to handle this.
TheSingularity2 votesAs long as the opposing jungler is not lee sin or vi (hec is fine) sej, skarner and naut are fine in the jungle currently.
Amumu definitely feels really weak right now as he's far more vulnerable than other tanks (incl zac) as they have ways to escape the likes of lee/Vi without needing a monster to jump to.
As for Vi and lee, they simply do everything better than everyone atm, think about cinderhulk sej when it was OP. They clear faster, gank better, move quicker, duel better and secure objectives faster than any tank (granted they should, but other divers are significantly weaker than these 2 champs).
As for every other tank in the game, many are rarely seen in low elo on OCE, there isn't even a "most common" tank as it's all Vi/Lee. Shen and maokai could use some assistance in the jungle.
IMO cinderhulk doesn't need buffs as much as other champs/items/masteries (CoTC) need tuning as tanks were decent at the end of season 6.
One change that would really help tanks, would be nerfing the overall movespeed of mobility boots and buffing the debuffed speed (so you don't slow down as much). This would boost clears while providing the solid ganks of pre change mobies.
LankPants1 votesAs for Vi and lee, they simply do everything better than everyone atm, think about cinderhulk sej when it was OP. They clear faster, gank better, move quicker, duel better and secure objectives faster than any tank (granted they should, but other divers are significantly weaker than these 2 champs).
Except even when Cinderhulk was at its strongest Sej had weaknesses. She still had a slower than average early clear. She was still a pathetic duellist pre Cinder. Her early game was still complete garbage. You can't compare the current junglers to Cinder Sej even at her strongest point because Cinderhulk Sejuani, even if overtuned had an exploitable weakness.
As for every other tank in the game, many are rarely seen in low elo on OCE, there isn't even a "most common" tank as it's all Vi/Lee. Shen and maokai could use some assistance in the jungle.
You can't give Maokai assistance in the jungle because he's an incredibly strong and reliable top laner. Shen needs direct help to ever be viable. His kit is overnerfed and Riot needs to address that. The goal for Shen should still be mostly a top lane however.
IMO cinderhulk doesn't need buffs as much as other champs/items/masteries (CoTC) need tuning as tanks were decent at the end of season 6.
If you buff other items and masteries you buff other already strong top lane tanks such as Maokai/Poppy/Naut. Buffing Cinderhulk only affects jungle tanks, top lane tanks get no benefit.
One change that would really help tanks, would be nerfing the overall movespeed of mobility boots and buffing the debuffed speed (so you don't slow down as much). This would boost clears while providing the solid ganks of pre change mobies.
Until you realise that Naut is the only Jungle tank who buys Mobies. It's not even in the top 4 boot choices for Sej/Amumu/Gragas. Buffing Mobies is a counter productive since two of the champions who'd benifit the most are Shaco and Lee Sin.
TheSingularity1 votesExcept even when Cinderhulk was at its strongest Sej had weaknesses. She still had a slower than average early clear. She was still a pathetic duellist pre Cinder. Her early game was still complete garbage. You can't compare the current junglers to Cinder Sej even at her strongest point because Cinderhulk Sejuani, even if overtuned had an exploitable weakness.
Give sej a red smite and vayne/yi become the only champions she can't duel 1v1. And that's currently after all the nerfs she received. Power farmed and 1v1'd an 18/2 graves and the dmg reduction was key to victory
You can't give Maokai assistance in the jungle because he's an incredibly strong and reliable top laner. Shen needs direct help to ever be viable. His kit is overnerfed and Riot needs to address that. The goal for Shen should still be mostly a top lane however.
Some have suggested granting him monster/minion based damage on his saplings which, while not an ideal solution would allow him to be at least half decent til they change/rework him to a balanceable state
If you buff other items and masteries you buff other already strong top lane tanks such as Maokai/Poppy/Naut. Buffing Cinderhulk only affects jungle tanks, top lane tanks get no benefit.
Read more closely, I never said they need buffs. I said they need tuning which could be either buffs or nerfs.
Until you realise that Naut is the only Jungle tank who buys Mobies. It's not even in the top 4 boot choices for Sej/Amumu/Gragas. Buffing Mobies is a counter productive since two of the champions who'd benifit the most are Shaco and Lee Sin.
I get mobies on these junglers: 
. While one of them isn't a tank, all use mobies in the jungle rather well as an early game buy when I wanna gank heaps.
The reason sej mumu and gragas don't use them is due to their over wall gap closers that allow them to get around the jungle swiftly. Without vision, none of these mobility boot champs can do this and unlike amumu/grag/sej who have allot of sustained damage/CC on low cooldowns, the above mobility users generally have bursts of harder to apply CC (naut E vs gragas E)
Kaisa is Hot1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyuAz0Ub,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-31T02:51:31.599+0000)
She's got some nerfs on the way for next patch. R damage and shield duration, I believe.
Thanks for the response, yeah this will work I guess. Although I would have liked to see her Q CD increased a little. 5 Seconds, but once she get's full build and has some CDR it get's ridiculously low. I guess we will see how these turn out though, thanks.
RiotRiot Sotere3 votesShe still has to be able to do damage and provide threat.
Her q is pretty strong and repeatable, but we were mainly aiming at toning down her capability to burst you down in a duel.
Shadow Hazard2 votesSo the 2 hard CC's, %health shield, and highest possible achievable armor and MR in the game making her one of the flat out best tanks in the game doesn't make her enough of a threat?....
Niyumi3 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyuAz0Ub,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2016-12-31T04:07:17.764+0000)
... but we were mainly aiming at toning down her capability to burst you down in a duel.
Her ult isn't the issue then. The issue is that her Q, through base damage alone, does 14% of your max health, plus some base damage, on like a 4s CD. You could change that so that it does maybe 8% max health damage, and does more based on your AD (1% per so much AD), so that she's forced to build at least a Black Cleaver in order to do a ton of damage, cutting into her ridiculous tankiness at the same time.
Then, tone down or change her W so she's not always a hyper tank (like, please, one armor item and Tabi = 200+ armor?). At low health it makes sense, but should she really always be a hyper tank? Could remove the passive while above the threshold, or just tone it down at the least.
I'd really like to know how you came to the conclusion that her ult was the issue. All this is going to cause is another wave of nerfs to one of my favorite champs because you refuse to nerf the actual issue.
Decrit1 votesThat' s inteded, but having her snipe at long range even thought you were pretty safe it' s not. Or at least i read as this.
Niyumi1 votesThey're only lowering her ult damage if you tap it. Full charge will still do the full damage.
Decrit1 votesMB, did not see the full changelist.
This however shows a thing a tad different - that they indeed want to reduce her instant nuke on ult up. This is different from the base spell damage because that' s something reliable and costant, other than the ult doing flat damage so it' s more effective against squishes.
I don' t express myself on her base instant damage because it' s been a while since i played her, but that always was a core part of her that got nerfed again and again so it does not suprise me if she still manages to hurt to this day.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesHer ult doesn't even do that much damage anyway.
Decrit1 votesyeah, agree. still, sometimes it can make a difference. Can' t say it is enough or not, just looking at the reasons behind it.
Kaisa is Hot2 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyuAz0Ub,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2016-12-31T04:07:17.764+0000)
She still has to be able to do damage and provide threat.
Her q is pretty strong and repeatable, but we were mainly aiming at toning down her capability to burst you down in a duel.
The problem with this lies is when you have an Irelia top (Me) who has build at least 1-2 Damage items, then the Poppy who has build absolutely none and just has a sunfire and is vastly outdueling you...
OVG Laky1 votesjust be careful to dont nerf her too mutch and make unplayable garbage from her again ...
Cosnirak1 votesShe still has to be able to do damage and provide threat.
Why? Like I get needing to technically do some but she's not a juggernaut. She has plenty of cc, why is she hitting harder than juggernauts? Killing you on their own isn't a tank's job, and that's according to Riot.
Cosnirak1 votesThese are some of the wrist slappiest nerfs to a champion doing way too much damage all the time without building any damage.
Irelia Bot1 votesIf I were to suggest poppy nerfs it would be to her passives early level shield duration.
Make it scale 3/4/5 seconds instead of always 5 seconds.
Craft Zeppelin1 votesI believe CoC was not intended for champions who already have shields...Tanks are meant to be harassable in the early phase at least
Pupel1 votes[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyuAz0Ub,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-12-31T02:57:06.275+0000)
I believe CoC was not intended for champions who already have shields...Tanks are meant to be harassable in the early phase at least
its on like a 30 second CD. plenty of time to harras
hunterspec1 votes
disagrees
