I miss the days where cooldowns actually existed...

PaffWasTaken··85 votes·18,465 views

Now, almost every ability-based champions who possess enough raw strength to one shot you through a single ability rotation can do this same combo at almost half the cooldown duration, while also giving no opening windows at all between trades and poke since their abilities are always sitting at the ready. Remember when the drawback to manaless champions were longer cooldowns and thus longer windows to counter? Can we say such things now with Aatrox Akali Zed LeeSin Riven Renekton Vladimir ? No, they virtually have no drawbacks to casting their abilities once they get an item or two. Also, some of them and some others can just abuse Riot's #1 mistake of the season, item 3161 , to suppress all their weaknesses related to cooldown, while building an already very good item stat wise. Why are some people ok with this?

Edit: some people pointed out that mages are also massive abusers of CDR. The thing is, ever since the mana rework massacre from almost a year ago, mages abusing CDR, if they have no mean to replenish mana, will basically drain themselves within mere seconds because of the sheer amount of spells they can cast nowadays with those ridiculously low cooldowns, unless they find a way to cheese through it (like with klepto Viktor top some months ago). Its been over a year now that every single top tier mages who pointed its nose in the meta were either partly assassins or had built-in means to replenish mana. People also complained that I mentionned energy champions. Since they are community favorites, I guess it was predictable that it would shuffle the feathers of some people. But you need to wake the hell up when you say that energy champions are "gated" by it. They are by no mean limited by it: their ability who costs the most is more than often their most spammable one, AKA the one they'll max first and, for some reason, their energy prices goes down along the way. Now, imagine a world where mages replenished their mana by half the cost of their skillshot whenever they land it. Doesn't make sense, right? So why energy champions replenish a quarter or more of the bar of their "gating casting ressource" if they accomplish certain actions, who either relate to dealing damage or having a free escape. What the hell is limiting about replenishing casting ressources by abusing low cooldown abilities who were supposed to be limited in some way? I'm not saying mages aren't overpowered right now (or at least a minority of them are), what I'm saying is that energy champions are no way limited if they get every single advantages in every fields against mana-gated ones

85 Comments

Curious Kat62 votes

Riots solution to people complaining about missing URF, LETS MAKE THE GAME ITSELF URF!!!

KICK OUT AT 216 votes

I'm actually very convinced this is the case. They tried hard to make an URF that wasn't quite urf because players liked urf so much that they would quit when it went away. I guess it was significant enough that we never got original urf back. It would make a lot of sense to make the normal game more like urf to appeal to those people. Loads of damage, loads of cdr, loads of RNG and wacky mechanics.

The Taco Kat5 votes

They did call it the "future of League of Legends." To think, back then, we all took it as a joke.

Greenette26 votes

Most people aren't ok with it but there's nothing we can do. Im glad Akali is getting nerfed into the dirt and hope Aatrox follows soon after.

GaurdianAngel81510 votes

{quoted}

Most people aren't ok with it but there's nothing we can do. Im glad Akali is getting nerfed into the dirt and hope Aatrox follows soon after.

YES

ILIKETOPOO55673 votes

Akali is capped by energy so it's not as overpowered as other mages.

PhD in Geometry5 votes

Akali isnt a mage...

Cotten Eyed Joe2 votes

That doens't make his/her point any less valid

LatetotheRace

Aatrox is a drain tank, and like all drain tanks in the past, feels terrible to play against.

AirKingNeo2 votes

except pre rework Aatrox...

funny how that works...

Grouchy Poro2 votes

{quoted}

Most people aren't ok with it but there's nothing we can do. Im glad Akali is getting nerfed into the dirt and hope Aatrox follows soon after.

Irelia Viktor Camille Darius Hecarim Illaoi Kassadin Jax Katarina Renekton Rengar Riven Ryze Sylas Sona Tryndamere Vladimir Yasuo Zed add these to the list to please

Lovelle23 votes

I miss when you actually had to put effort into (and make sacrifices) to cap CDR. It used to help me get the edge over mobile and/or overloaded champions with immobile melees like Trundle, who scales well with CDR due to his utility. However, now that everyone gets access to the same things he does, it's hard to keep up because he doesn't deal frontloaded damage like the typical champs that are spammed in games.

Darkdemon65318 votes

It's sad that there's so much readily-available CDR in the game that Riot decided to make a rune to convert CDR above the cap into AD/AP. That's what I would expect from something trying to satirize League.

Daddy Ants9 votes

Cooldown Reduction is way too easily obtained.

Everyone who uses CDR whether it's Assassin's, Mages, Bruiser's or Supports feel like their cooldowns don't exist.

Too much CDR in the item system Too much CDR in the rune system (Ultimate Hunter, Ingenious Hunter (Item CDR), Cosmic Insight etc)

 

A support running item 3098 and Cosmic Insight gets 15% at their first base.........

15% CDR within the first 4-5 minutes of the game...

SovereignMammal3 votes

And theres literally 0 you can do.

Lux or Velkoz coming back to lane with 15% CDR, and you have no way to fight back as they spam abilities at you endlessly because some idiot at rito thought spellthiefs line needs cdr, mana regen, ap, and bonus on hit dmg

Cotten Eyed Joe3 votes

If they're spamming abilities early game, they are going to run out of mana super fast. Mana regen isn't as strong as people often think. The only real item that allows spamming is Tear.

IainG101 votes

Late game that changes (at least on the Mages/Enchanters); my usual support builds include Manaflow in the Runes and then 2 of Athene's/Mikael's/Redemption/Ardent, plus the Supp Item.

Stacking Manaflow in early though actually takes consideration (due to its ICD), and without at least one Teamwork Item and a Tier 3 Supp Item mana costs still hurt.

I also don't build Lost Chapter on Enchanters, and I VERY rarely play a Mage as Support (I'm counting Lux and Morg as Enchanters here, because I max Shields first)

Cotten Eyed Joe1 votes

Except I'm not talking about late game. I'm talking about early game, which this entire discussion revolves around.

AirKingNeo1 votes

(Ultimate Hunter, Ingenious Hunter (Item CDR), Cosmic Insight etc)

Those are specific cooldown reductions. Besides, we've never really had item CDR before.

A Chaotic Mind8 votes

except the biggest abuser of cheap cdr are mages. especially zed and akali are capped by energy not cdr and this was always the case

PaffWasTaken4 votes

Would be the case if they didn't have built-in ways to instantly replenish energy and if those means weren't directly linked to cooldowns. What's the point of getting capped by energy if cdr basically fixes it either way?

Yliciel5 votes

Actually, cooldowns DO exist - they just happen only on your team at the worst possible times.

Tahminatrix 4 votes

They do exist now though....on TahmKench ally w

Saianna4 votes

I miss those old times where CD was mostly mage/tank stat, or when I played mages I had different ways to build (huge mana regen sacrificing dmg or huge damage with little mana regen, or just rushing CDR and spamming).

OneMustFall4 votes

item 3161

Who actually builds this item? I swear to god it's the most overrated item I have ever seen on the boards.

AR URF3 votes

{quoted}

item 3161

Who actually builds this item? I swear to god it's the most overrated item I have ever seen on the boards.

I've seen it built on MasterYi. But that was back when he built item 3153 item 1416 item 3124

Daddy Ants9 votes

{quoted}

item 3161

Who actually builds this item? I swear to god it's the most overrated item I have ever seen on the boards.

Jax Nocturne Riven Renekton

MasterYi can build it too.

I believe Fiora can also build it.

Cotten Eyed Joe1 votes

Jax builds it 2-3rd item, making him extremely squishy with trinity Riven builds it 3rd/4th item Renekton builds it 2nd Nocturne builds it 5th item Yi builds it 3rd item Fiora doesn't build it. You'll notice that almost none of the champs you mentioned builds this item early on and usually games end before they hit this stage. This is also 6 champions out of 144ish champs.

IainG101 votes

Been wondering why Aatrox never builds it; CDs already short enough maybe?

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

Been wondering why Aatrox never builds it; CDs already short enough maybe?

No idea, not an Aatrox player myself.

Créam4 votes

Remember when shojin was suppose to be a bruiser item

[sg-miss-fortune]

Cotten Eyed Joe1 votes

It is a bruiser item...?

Konsequence934 votes

i miss the days when zed couldnt kill an adc even with a full combo

NEßULA3 votes

[deleted]

NEßULA4 votes

[deleted]

Best Flash NA2 votes

Waste your W on Zed and it literally feels like a century before you have it up again. Forcing you to play passive depending on the situation. The CDs are mostly correct for all the champs, save a select few.

NEßULA1 votes

[deleted]

Cotten Eyed Joe1 votes

Champs with (relatively) high CDs Jax MasterYi Riven Thresh to name a few

Flashes1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cotten Eyed Joe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyUUiQq7,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T04:32:08.017+0000)

Champs with (relatively) high CDs Jax MasterYi Riven Thresh to name a few

Riven's Q CD is mitigated by the fact that it activates upon first cast rather than last cast.

Thresh's CDs ARE long, as they should be.

Master Yi's cooldown for his Q is mitigated by attack speed, and due to him having massively boosted attack speed in most games, it becomes a 4-5 second cooldown ability.

Jax's E has a high cooldown, but remember that his W cooldown is actually quite rapid for being both an aa steroid and an aa reset, while his Q cooldown is a fairly large targeted leap that doesn't have a very large cooldown.

Cotten Eyed Joe1 votes

Riven has long W and E cds

Master Yi has long W cds and his Q early is pretty long

Jax early game has pretty high CDs

Flashes1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cotten Eyed Joe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyUUiQq7,comment-id=0005000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-03T20:41:14.684+0000)

Riven has long W and E cds

Master Yi has long W cds and his Q early is pretty long

Jax early game has pretty high CDs

Master Yi has a long W cooldown becuase it NEEDS a long cooldown. 50%+ damage reduction AND healing on a hypercarry and you want it to have a short one? As for his Q early, he NEEDS a longer cooldown on it. It still has its cooldown reduced through autos, and Yi needs SOME SEMBLANCE of a weak phase, right?

Riven only had a long E cd as of last patch, and despite that, thanks to the compensational Q buffs, she is still S tier, as her winrate has risen again after people realized that they could just constantly keep up stacks of her passive with the new Q, leading to an easier early game.

As for Jax, saying he has high CDs early means nothing. He is MEANT to have a weak earlygame.

Imagine that. This game has gotten so broken that people no longer understand that champions are meant to have weak phases in the game.

Cotten Eyed Joe1 votes

I'm not saying that there's no reason for the high cds. I'm just saying that there are long cds.

I perfectly understand that.

DeracadaVenom7 votes

Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux. Lux has no cooldown on ANYTHING

Sebastit7d2 votes

I was playing vs Akali the other day, my jungler came in and ganked, she used ult to run away, cool! i shoved, then backed to shop then when i came back to lane she used her E to go in on me and i traded back thinking "Oh she's being greedy so i can win this trade since she has no ult!" i start fighting her and suddenly 3 seconds into the fight she just microstuns me, ignites me then executes me. The fucking bitch had ult in just over a minute. at rank 1... that, that right there, is fucking bullshit.

Hemulen Magi2 votes

{quoted}

Remember when the drawback to manaless champions were longer cooldowns and thus longer windows to counter? Can we say such things now with Aatrox Akali Zed LeeSin Riven Renekton Vladimir ?

I can honestly say I do not remember that ever being the case. I've played a long time, and as far as I can recollect, the main weakness of certain mobile resourceless champions Zed LeeSin Riven Yasuo has always been the type of players attracted to those champions rather than any specific weakness inherent in their kits. There is something about these champions that attracts extremely selfish, egotistical, and easily tilted players, who refuse to use teamwork, flame their team in /all chat, demand early surrenders, and disproportionately afk...

5050BS1 votes

Some of us remember before those champ were added

Hemulen Magi1 votes

Well, back in those days I was playing this guy and stacking zeals on him because I didn't know how to play the game. Everything seemed OP back then, so I wouldn't trust my memory of balance from all the way back then. https://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fleagueoflegends%2Fimages%2F3%2F3e%2FSion_OriginalSkin_old.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%2Fscale-to-width-down%2F640%3Fcb%3D20140924234743&key=f0abbd34f14549f3a15cd94dd9970851&width=425

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