Reminder that Riven's Q cooldown should start on the third cast instead of the first...

Miraweave·Aug 24, 2015·159 votes·5,507 views

And that this would fix half of her problems.

You have now been reminded. Have a wonderful day!

100 Comments

BuzzinTateAug 24, 201522 votes

or we could make her use energy? just a thought

KoldheartedjspAug 24, 201541 votes

{quoted}

or we could make her use energy? just a thought

never once in my life have i played riven but i feel this would utterly destroy her

BuzzinTateAug 24, 201513 votes

{quoted}

never once in my life have i played riven but i feel this would utterly destroy her

she'd have enough energy to use QWE and then Q again before she ran to low energy. im sure her ult would be no cost

Mr Broken WingsAug 24, 20158 votes

{quoted}

she'd have enough energy to use QWE and then Q again before she ran to low energy. im sure her ult would be no cost

She currently hovers at 51% winrate with the most experienced playerbase of all champions. She doesnt need nerfs, in fact she could use a buff. http://champion.gg/champion/riven In comparison a " balanced" champion: http://champion.gg/champion/Ahri 54% winrate with a way less experienced playerbase. http://champion.gg/champion/Irelia Same winrate with a complete newbie playerbase. It seems like you have to waste 10x more time in riven currently to play her on the same level as an irelia player who played her 15 x in his life. Balanced? No. Reverting her movementspeednerfs would be a good start and they shouldnt give her energy and drop her winrate by another 20% obviously.

YumaS2AstralAug 24, 201519 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Broken Wings,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=exqtnWUN,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-24T12:44:39.209+0000)

She currently hovers at 51% winrate with the most experienced playerbase of all champions. She doesnt need nerfs, in fact she could use a buff. http://champion.gg/champion/riven In comparison a " balanced" champion: http://champion.gg/champion/Ahri 54% winrate with a way less experienced playerbase. http://champion.gg/champion/Irelia Same winrate with a complete newbie playerbase. It seems like you have to waste 10x more time in riven currently to play her on the same level as an irelia player who played her 15 x in his life. Balanced? No. Reverting her movementspeednerfs would be a good start and they shouldnt give her energy and drop her winrate by another 20% obviously.

A champion needing higher knowledge and experience with him/her does not mean that this champion is balanced.

Mr Broken WingsAug 24, 201512 votes

{quoted}

A champion needing higher knowledge and experience with him/her does not mean that this champion is balanced.

She doesnt even hit an acceptable strong winrate after 150+ games on her. For comparison, ryze hits nearly 60%. She barely gets viable if you waste a year on only playing riven. Yeah I agree, she isnt balanced, she suckz currently and only silver people think otherwise. Like I get flamed already in my elo for picking riven because she is trash and in very high elo even the biggest riven mains stopped playing her because she IS that bad lol. The latest nerfs were complete overkill and just because here is a circlejerk against her since her release doesnt change that fact. But I know I cant use logic on this board. People tried to argue in another thread that 40% winrate leblanc is fine and should be gutted MORE. Its pointless to argue with you people anyway.

AsdeftAug 24, 201513 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Broken Wings,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=exqtnWUN,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-24T13:33:28.135+0000)

She doesnt even hit an acceptable strong winrate after 150+ games on her. For comparion, ryze hits nearly 60%. She barely gets viable if you waste a year on only playing riven. Yeah I agree, she isnt balanced, she suckz currently and only silver people think otherwise. Like I get flamed already in my elo for picking riven because she is trash and in very high elo even the biggest riven mains stopped playing her because she IS that bad lol. The latest nerfs were complete overkill and just because here is a circlejerk against her since her release doesnt change that fact. But I know I cant use logic on this board. People tried to argue in another thread that 40% winrate leblanc is fine and should be gutted MORE. Its pointless to argue with you people anyway.

I don't think she is OP, I think she is just annoying. Like Fizz. That's all. No nerfs really needed, but they just make the game slightly less fun for me, and that is just because they are so good at outplaying people with their mobility. Which is pretty unique to only a few champions to have a LOT of mobility and Riven gets a lot of flak because she is resource less I think, but she is a pretty useless champion if she isn't full-on carrying. It's those few times where she DOES carry is when the complaints come out because it can be hard to stop a good/lucky Riven if your team isn't prepared.

Ariel the CruelAug 25, 20158 votes

I'd rather be out-played by a Riven, Then out-RNG'ed by a Tryndamere.

At least one requires some semblance of skill.

AsdeftSep 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=exqtnWUN,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-25T04:15:20.061+0000)

I'd rather be out-played by a Riven, Then out-RNG'ed by a Tryndamere.

At least one requires some semblance of skill.

Any day. I hate tryndamere. He needs some sort of an overhaul because he is just so obnoxious even if he gets beaten he will just split endlessly.

Taste Your FearAug 24, 20157 votes

Tell that to Khazix

XanesAug 25, 20151 votes

Im sorry, you're talking bullshit. Noone will flame you for picking Riven in plat. She is one of the strongest picks and often even banned. Same in high elo streams.

Gregor GysiAug 24, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Broken Wings,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=exqtnWUN,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-24T12:44:39.209+0000)

She currently hovers at 51% winrate with the most experienced playerbase of all champions. She doesnt need nerfs, in fact she could use a buff. http://champion.gg/champion/riven In comparison a " balanced" champion: http://champion.gg/champion/Ahri 54% winrate with a way less experienced playerbase. http://champion.gg/champion/Irelia Same winrate with a complete newbie playerbase. It seems like you have to waste 10x more time in riven currently to play her on the same level as an irelia player who played her 15 x in his life. Balanced? No. Reverting her movementspeednerfs would be a good start and they shouldnt give her energy and drop her winrate by another 20% obviously.

She doesn't have the most experienced playerbase of all champions, that would be Fiddlesticks. Also there are quite a few Riven mains in challenger and they don't get flamed for playing Riven at all. Furthermore, Riven is in quite a decent place atm seeing how the armor items got nerfed and the juggernauts are perma ban.

Mr Broken WingsAug 24, 20154 votes

{quoted}

She doesn't have the most experienced playerbase of all champions, that would be Fiddlesticks. Also there are quite a few Riven mains in challenger and they don't get flamed for playing Riven at all. Furthermore, Riven is in quite a decent place atm seeing how the armor items got nerfed and the juggernauts are perma ban.

I agree that the armor nerfs could be enough to make her quiet decent again. Oh okay, fiddlesticks seems to have a more experienced playerbase, I give you that. Lets just say she has one of the most experienced playerbases in the game and still has a shit winrate while champs like ahri can have 3% more winrate with a newbie playerbase, not fair imo. I dont say that the latest changes didnt help her btw. And no, in high elo there are maybe 2 riven mains who have to play her because they are known for their pick, thats it. Even the shy stopped playing her completly because she simply isnt worth playing anymore. Nobody who really wants to win a game there picks that trash champion anymore.

DalthineAug 24, 20155 votes

You do know that they've been picking Riven in the overseas LCS, right? I watch it in the mornings for a bit while I get ready for work, and she was being picked pretty consistently a week or two ago.

And that's before the juggernaut patch armor nerfs.

Mr Broken WingsAug 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You do know that they've been picking Riven in the overseas LCS, right? I watch it in the mornings for a bit while I get ready for work, and she was being picked pretty consistently a week or two ago.

And that's before the juggernaut patch armor nerfs.

I saw lucian picked in the lcs as well and he was useless every match. Doesnt make a champion good. And even in the matches in which riven got picked she NEVER really had impact even if hyper fed because of camping. Like seriously, 5-0 riven did nothing while other picks won the game all by themself with similar stats because she is ridicilously easy to play around if you are not bad at this game.

DalthineAug 25, 20152 votes

I must have caught the good games then, because one of them I remember her teleporting into the middle of the enemy team and helping kill three people, easily winning them the teamfight.

In any case, the point I was refuting was your statement in the post I replied to that "Nobody who really wants to win a game [in high elo] picks that trash champion anymore." If she was that bad she wouldn't be picked in the LCS period, regardless of how easy or hard she might be to play around. There's a lot at stake in those games, and no one's going to play to lose. She might not be the top tier, she might even be in need of buffs to round her out, but she's definitely not trash in high elo.

MessaigaAug 25, 20153 votes

Couldn't they just make her passive also restore energy on-hit? This would help "separate the good Rivens from the great Rivens.".

PanterLilyAug 25, 20152 votes

Is her only power:

http://www.hormelfoods.com/~/media/HormelFoods/Images/Brands/Product%20Shots/High%20Res%20Product%20Shots/spam-family-of-products.ashx ?

LordGeovanniAug 25, 20151 votes

balenceing riven would indeed destroy her

Daedalus871Aug 24, 20151 votes

But she's not a flippin' ninja

AMYS GRAVEAug 24, 20153 votes

neither is lee.

Daedalus871Aug 24, 20154 votes

Lee is so Ninja, he doesn't know he's a ninja.

MessaigaAug 25, 20152 votes

I thought they removed the "flippin ninja" debuff a while back? I never see it anymore. I miss it.

Mixter YiAug 25, 20151 votes

They also removed GP and MF's pirate/hunter buffs. Thanks Riot.

AdanimAug 24, 20156 votes

People just need to stop whining about her and learn to play against her. Honestly, it's not that hard if you start item 1029 and then proceed to not trade with her, farm under tower, and only engage when the jungler comes. A Riven not fed is a Riven that's behind. It really is not that hard.

LuggAug 24, 201521 votes

A Riven with more CS than you is a fed Riven. Good luck with your strategy, you'll need it.

ralseiAug 24, 20151 votes

Just play Renekton or Garen . I always end up destroying rivens in matchups like that.

And if someone picks Riven into you, just play safe, sustain in lane, and make sure to ping MIA. What I'll try to do is push lane as hard as possible to back and TP to lane, outscaling her early. If she needs to back, push the wave in, do some damage, or push then roam.

Voluug13Aug 24, 20154 votes

It has been mathematically proven Garen cant defeat Riven on similar skill conditions.

Riven just outrades Garen after level 3-4 so hard it isnt even funny, while Garen got his Q silence nerfed.

As for Rene, Rene is Rene and his laning is ridiculous as it is.

5000000000000000Aug 24, 20153 votes

Well, Riven is the better duelist. In a teamfight, Garen's silence will destroy Riven, while Garen can be CC'd and still do damage with his E.

SH AzykanAug 25, 20152 votes

Garens rework disagrees...that matchup is now stupid easy =\

AdanimAug 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

A Riven with more CS than you is a fed Riven. Good luck with your strategy, you'll need it.

Seems to work for me, I have seen plenty of Riven in my time with this game, many of which are rank 5 now, and even before the mastery system they were skilled with her. I have never had a problem with Riven, and that is because instead of whining and accepting that she is unbeatable, I took the time to practice fighting her. Seems to have worked in my favor, and I don't understand why everyone else refuses to do the same.

League of legends is very well balanced, with the exception being new champion or item releases or the first patch after a rework. Once people learn to stop bitching and complaining about every little thing that actually takes some amount of thought and reasoning to beat, then maybe people will realize that every champion is powerful and every champion has weaknesses.

But hey, while the rest of the world complains, I'm going to continue to not have issues with the game and enjoy it.

LuggAug 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

League of legends is very well balanced,

I have to disagree on this one. In the entire time I have played League, there has NEVER been a time when the game was "well balanced". There are ALWAYS at least a half dozed champs at any given time that are obviously OP. Right now, there are probably well over a dozen champions and 2-3 items that need rework/nerfs. And we haven't even talked about the champs/items that need buffs.

AdanimAug 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I have to disagree on this one. In the entire time I have played League, there has NEVER been a time when the game was "well balanced". There are ALWAYS at least a half dozed champs at any given time that are obviously OP. Right now, there are probably well over a dozen champions and 2-3 items that need rework/nerfs. And we haven't even talked about the champs/items that need buffs.

They are only op if they are impossible to win against. And nothing is, so I cannot agree with you on that.

LuggAug 25, 20151 votes

If two players are of the same skill level, but one is playing a champion that is stronger, the player with the stronger champ is going to win. That's just common sense.

AdanimAug 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If two players are of the same skill level, but one is playing a champion that is stronger, the player with the stronger champ is going to win. That's just common sense.

People always talk about skill skill skill. Skill vs. Skill. Ever thought about the ability to work around? It's 100% possible to beat someone of a higher skill level than you. You have to work around and find the chinks in the armor. The martial art of Aikido is based around using the strengths of an opponent against them. Intelligence and problem solving can be accomplished in the same way, and you can beat someone of equal skill or of higher skill. Lets take Riven, who is "stronger" than most champions right now. First off, that statement is false, but let's pretend that it is true. Then you take a player who is of equal skill on a different champion who neither counters nor is countered by Riven. Who wins? The player who uses the strengths of the opponent and works around them to achieve victory. You can do the same with a champion that is countered by Riven, even if you are of the same or lower skill level. It takes practice and the ability to do it reliably, but it can be done and recreated with ease once it is mastered.

Thinking of this game in closed-minded ways will lead to failure and to the inability to adapt and adjust and win in scenarios that you are "supposed" to lose.

LuggAug 25, 20151 votes

The ability to work around is part of a player's skill. I completely took that into account when I made my statement.

AdanimAug 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The ability to work around is part of a player's skill. I completely took that into account when I made my statement.

Then I will tell you that you are wrong to believe that someone of higher skill on a "better" champion will win. Evidence of that is all over the place in this game.

LuggAug 25, 20152 votes

Seriously? You have to be trolling me at this point.

On the off chance you actually believe your statement, give me ONE example of this evidence. Hint, there isn't any. At all.

AdanimAug 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Seriously? You have to be trolling me at this point.

On the off chance you actually believe your statement, give me ONE example of this evidence. Hint, there isn't any. At all.

You suffer from confirmation bias. If there are people who agree with you that Riven is OP, and they agree with your statement about skill vs. skill, then you think "see? I'm right". If someone disagrees, and has a solid argument, and they believe that there is more to it and that they may be saying that you are wrong, you say "nope, not possible, I'm right. Any evidence going against me is wrong by default". Which is why at this point having a constructive conversation with you is meaningless because you are too short-minded to admit that maybe you lose to Riven all the time because you aren't capable yet of defeating her. so you blame it on numbers and on a hidden power that isn't even there.

You are Bronze (at least on this account). That's not a bad thing. I'm not a person who shames people based on rank. Bronze players are at the lowest tier of play because they are still not solid on experience, mechanical capabilities, teamwork, map control, map awareness, roaming capabilities, reaction timing, and many other skills. Riven is a champion that is difficult to deal with, especially in Bronze, because Bronze players don't have the ability to handle a fed opponent (to some degree, of course. There are outliers and people who are better than the average Bronze player, but they will climb to Silver because of the system we have in place). Riven is a snowball champion, so of course she looks OP to people who have little to no possibilities of dealing with her. I'm a Platinum player. I have almost, but not entirely, perfected the skills of this game. I know that I am correct in all of my above statements and that you are not. You wouldn't be in Bronze if you agreed with what I have been saying.

LuggAug 25, 20151 votes

There is a lot of irony in your post. This is exactly what you are doing. If you look at the history of my posts, you will see that there are several times where I changed my view when presented with good factual evidence. I am actually one of the more open minded people on the forums and have no problem admitting when I am wrong.

I also find your Riven example quite funny since the last time I faced a Riven top, I completely dumpstered her. It was so bad she wouldn't even come to lane when I was there.

Yes, I normally play at a low ELO, but I have played with plenty of high ELO players as well and I hold my own quite well. I also watch lots of pro games, high ELO streams, and research articles and watch videos. I can confidently say that my knowledge of the game is higher than 90% of the player base due to me being a student of the game.

I'm not trying to say you are stupid or bad at all. Most Plat+ players are good players and I love playing games with them, but I am quite surprised how many high ELO players have significant gaps in their knowledge of the game.

AdanimAug 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There is a lot of irony in your post. This is exactly what you are doing. If you look at the history of my posts, you will see that there are several times where I changed my view when presented with good factual evidence. I am actually one of the more open minded people on the forums and have no problem admitting when I am wrong.

I also find your Riven example quite funny since the last time I faced a Riven top, I completely dumpstered her. It was so bad she wouldn't even come to lane when I was there.

Yes, I normally play at a low ELO, but I have played with plenty of high ELO players as well and I hold my own quite well. I also watch lots of pro games, high ELO streams, and research articles and watch videos. I can confidently say that my knowledge of the game is higher than 90% of the player base due to me being a student of the game.

I'm not trying to say you are stupid or bad at all. Most Plat+ players are good players and I love playing games with them, but I am quite surprised how many high ELO players have significant gaps in their knowledge of the game.

Then explain to me where you believe that I am lacking knowledge of the game.

AdanimAug 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The fact that you can't acknowledge that a champion that is stronger will win over a champion that is weaker when both players are the same skill level.

If a weightlifter can lift 500 pounds and his competition can only lift 400 pounds, he will win. Like I have been saying, it's a very simple concept to grasp.

At this point I am done arguing with you. I'm not giving up, but what I am saying has been true for me and my experience and I have anecdotal evidence that the concepts that I have stated are true, and you have refused to believe them in any way. I now know that my words are falling on deaf ears and I will not waste my energy anymore.

VardenSaladAug 26, 20151 votes

This has been the single dumbest thread I've read on these boards.

Holy shit, wow.

3sTbGoP7ESAug 24, 20156 votes

Riven's Q is divided into 3 small bursts/abilities. Making her Q cooldown start after third cast would be huge nerf, unless they make Riven's Q a single ability with the damage combined of all 3 bursts.

And I bet low-elo people will still continue complaining about her.

Mr Broken WingsAug 24, 20155 votes

If you tripple her base damage on her q and give her e the old duration then this would be fine. Gutting a barely viable champion like that without a big compensation buff would just poppy/olaf/ destroy her. Edit: people cant prove me wrong logically thats why salty silvers downvote me into oblivion.

Spizzle9000Aug 24, 201511 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Broken Wings,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=exqtnWUN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-24T12:25:26.241+0000)

If you tripple her base damage on her q and give her e the old duration then this would be fine. Gutting a barely viable champion like that without a big compensation buff would just poppy/olaf/ destroy her.

You're joking, right?

Edit: Wow. Your name suggests that you aren't. Just. . . Just wow.

SorryBoysImLesAug 24, 20155 votes

If all of her cooldowns started when the effect(s) ended she would be a lot more balanced.

As it is all she is is a spam bot with extremely high scalings. I even watched a BoxBox video where he said if you're not (pretty much mindlessly) spamming her skills and abusing her lack of resource ontop of virtually no cooldowns, you shouldn't be playing her.

She already has no resource, everything in her kit scaling off her main build stat, and two ultimates. The steroid from her R is significant enough to be counted as a ultimate in of itself, yet it's essentially a Karma ultimate for offensive abilities for a whole duration, and has a free, instant, better version of MF's ult tacked onto it, 'cause why the fuck not.

And it nearly has the CD of basic ability end-game.