how about creating a change for vi's ult together

Knight SoIaire ··1 votes·505 views

ok so first things first why would i propose a change for vi? after all she is ballanced and changing her in any way doesnt seem to make any sence

the answer is that vi's ult is toxic by design , its a skill that keeps any sort of viability and uniqueness by having no counterplay and no interaction, this usualy means that with the upcomiing nerfs and buffs vi is garenteed to explode ballance vise some day

scond thing to cover is that i would like to state that its not a biased post of some crybaby, in season 3 and season 4 i was playing vi almoust every game and got over 300 ranked games with her, carried myself to platinum and realy enjoyed the time

she is still a realy fun champion but i dont like to play popular stuff and her popularity spiiked lately

so i think that everyone of us understands that she needs a change aimed specificaly at her ult its not the most urgent of urgencies but i think that she deserwes it

but there are some points that the new ult design needs to cover a)it needs to be unique ofc sounds easy, but compare hecarim jarwanI4 and vi, each of them has almoust the same ult being a gapcloser with cc onto it that is just tampered to fit their theme we need to avoid her new ult being a cookie cutter b)it needs to fit her theme in the point (a) you saw that the problem of hecarin j4 and vi having barely the same ults just adjusted to fit their theme, while i dont think jarwan is thematicaly forced to have such an ult vi and hecarim are other cases, for hecarim the main theme is a charging war horse so his ultimate should be a dewastating charge, while vi is an enforcer chasing criminals and aplying beatdown which is also represented in a gapcloser with some heavy strike for it c)it needs to be interactive easy to say, enemy needs to have options of dealing with it that are meaningfull, easy example would be vaynes condemn, if you stand in a good spot she cant stunn you but on the other hand she can lead the fight to outmaneuwer you and get that concemn off d) it cant be overly flexible it needs to have a specific role in her kit but shouldnt be too good when used out of its role the easy example is recently hated lee sin, whos kit is doing just everything and even more which became a preety serious reason for his rework e)it needs to be ballanceable thats a must, but dont think its easy, look at kalistas passive, loved and hated it creates kalistas playstyle, but when we speak about ballance this one design fails hard, anything that reliies on skillshots or cant outrun her dashes is 90% sure to get rekt, on the other hand anything that keeps up with her or relies on point and click abilites is 90% sure to wreck kalista, this puts most of kalistas counterplay and ballance in champion select the ballance of the skill cant be also centered in its numbers, thats how vi's ult currently is and many other champions, the reason is that such champions viability is usualy described by their numbers, in our past we had a time when ryze was popular, the only reason wa that anything else was nerfed so ryze could point and click his way to victory, the main con of such a design is that it usualy bounces champion beetwen being kinda weak and owerly opressive

unfortunately my creativity isnt op enough to cover all these points on top of my head so im asking you as a community playing this game to propose your suggestions

of course after some time im going to propose mine anyway it seems nice to see people making new mechanics and ways of interpreeting champions theme

4 Comments

JZPorkins2 votes

I don't really think vi needs an ult change. Calling Vi Hecarim and J4s ults the same thing with a slightly different theme is wrong. J4 is there to trap you in. he punishes you for being clumped up. Hecarim is there to get to the back of you and scatter you. he also punishes you for being clumped, but he seperates the frontline and backline somewhat. Vi is there really to get to your backline. she's there to stick to your ADC/APC and make them run and lose damage or die. or get superpeeled and keep doing their thing. to call them the same ultimate is silly.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

Calling Vi Hecarim and J4s ults the same thing with a slightly different theme is wrong.

and then you started showing me what thematical diferences those ults have by comparing the effect on the gameplay these thematics have

for jarwans there is not much of a thematical connection beetwen his ult and him overall i hinted that

but for hecarim its as i said a dewastating charge causing chaos and stuff while he rampages for vi its a charge to catch someone and wreck his face

but if we strip those skills to their core its always a gapcloser with cc

also when you compare their gameplay it gets a bit complicated since the rest of their kits starts coming into the equation hecarim is a rampaging horse (initiator/ rampaging horse) jarwan is an initiator/ tank and vi is an initiator/ assasin

when you compare their ults without taking the rest of their kits onto account those skils are similar but when you compare entire champions they might be similar but still quite distinct from eachother (thats why it seems the ults are so diferent, because they are atqached to diferent champions)

i listed those similarities as a problem because champions with similar impact on the gameplay tend to push eachother out ballance wise

JZPorkins1 votes

if you strip abilities down to their core tons of things are the exact same. Varus Q is the same as caitlyns Q, is the same as nids Q. is the same as Kallistas whatever tosses a spear, is the same as rumbles E, is the same as Ezreals Q, same as Corkis R, Brands Q. at their very core they're a damaging skillshot. but as you build upon the abilities they become different.

saying an ability is the same as another but being thematically different would be Vi's R, and then turn Zeds ult so that he shadow dashes to the target no matter how far they go and punches them into the air, or making Hecarims ult cause him to charge to one target and slam the ground shooting them into the air. those would be the same ults with only thematic differences. it would be the exact same. they zoom in to one target and knock them up.

Vis ult affects one target. it gapcloses no matter how far they go. once she's initiated the ult they don't get away. she then knocks them up. champion targeted ability. infini-gapcloser once initiated, and then a knockup on one target + damage to them. Hecarims ult affects as many champs as it hits. it's targeted to a location and deals damage to all enemies hit. it then fears the champions caught at the end. targeted on terrain charge, fears targets at the end, does damage to all hit along the way. J4s ult makes him leap on a target and creates a ring around them trapping the enemy and any of their allies in a ring. targeted on champion ability. slight gapcloser. pins the target and nearby allies/enemies in a ring. does damage to the one champ.

if they all targeted one champ, had the same range on the gapclose, and all knocked that one target into the air then you would be right. they would be the same exact ability with some different graphics.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

if you strip abilities down to their core tons of things are the exact same.

thats why i touch only ults which are supposed to express their champion on a higher level

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