Think Before You Tax

l Helios l·Jan 25, 2016·5 votes·691 views

Now, hear me out here. Personally, nothing bothers me more than a guy/girl coming into my lane after some event or just because and taking several if not all of the minions there for no reason other than they want farm.

Two situations where this doesn't bother me: We need to shove lane so we/I can X. Y needs the farm for Z.

Outside of this, I can't stand someone doing that, especially if I am already behind in some fashion or really need the gold. Worst people I see is the jungler and he/she got the kill(s) or if they failed to do anything meaningful (I mean no summoners or even denying the enemy laner some cs). I don't mind a few, but more than 3 is pushing it. Also don't take a cannon please.

OK I'm done now. Just please think in the future and we can all win together. You wouldn't want me to do it to you, would you?

16 Comments

FortisDominusJan 25, 20163 votes

What annoys me is the stupid laner that does not let me help them push in the wave after killing the enemy laner just because my laner does not want to share xp or gold with me. In that case i mute them and auto push the lane whether they want me to or not

VíaggroJan 25, 20161 votes

I'm mostly with you. One thing as a jungler though, if we come in for a jank (whether is fails or succeeds) we did lose time that we could have been getting gold and XP from jungle creatures by trying to help another lane. You get all your gold by staying in a lane and killing the creeps, we have to roam the jungle and kill monsters and still try to help out 3 lanes. That being said if I come in and get the kill I usually don't kill creeps. Like you said I'll help if we are going to push to get a tower or something. But if I come in and don't get an assist or kill, then I might take a few to help make up for that lost time I could have been doing jungle creatures. That being said I'll only take a few, around 2-4 I'd say, before heading back to do my jungle stuff, I would never steal an entire wave or anything. Just my two sense!

coeurloyalJan 25, 20161 votes

I personally have to disagree. I'm also a jungler, and I don't think it's ever worth taxing a lane for a gank. I gank because I have an objective that I want to secure or I want to create a lane advantage; situations where I 1) have a farming deficit, 2) have a full jungle clear completed, 3) have no objectives to take/ prep, and 4) don't need to back are extremely rare.

Between normal clears and catching waves that are getting pushed into tower, I don't ever feel the need to tax a lane. There may be a few jungle carries that really need to keep their farm up, but in most cases junglers are able to find resources elsewhere or remain relevant without needing to tax every lane.

VíaggroJan 25, 20161 votes

Right, I'm not saying it's an every time thing be any means. But I do think If I'm the one behind, say got janked myself or had a camp stolen, I might grab a creep here or there to get a little XP. But if I'm still ahead of a that laner I won't for sure. And I'm not saying I tax every lane every time by ANY means. It's every once in a while, and it's always a few, not waves at a time or anything.

l Helios lJan 25, 20161 votes

Nah I dig that. I use to jungle a lot more than I do now. It can be super annoying to be wasting time. My only big issue is if people tax a lot of creeps, like > 4. That's messed up, especially if you're behind. And I don't just mean junglers so don't think I'm hating on you guys. Lanes who roam do it a lot as well. It's just junglers tend to be the most obvious, which is unfair to an extent. I respect that jungling is hard and losing xp time sucks.

VíaggroJan 25, 20161 votes

Right right, and I mean it's not "wasting" it's still doing the role you're supposed to. But very true on roaming, that is annoying if you're halfway back to lane and the someone else roams just to clear creeps.

WeatheredJan 25, 20161 votes

I never found taxing necessary. The only taxing I might do is taking the kill if I did all the damage or getting exp from sitting in a bush for a lane gank. Even when pushing I just damage the back line and let them last hit them all.

BeanwaterJan 25, 20161 votes

This issue is less about minion tax and more about helping the laner manipulate the wave as smoothly as possible.

At least that's how I see it. If the jungler takes the entire wave (6-7 CS) but is helping me bounce it or manipulate the wave in some way that I can exploit, it allows me to recover that CS and put my lane oponent in compromising positions.

I think as long as the jungler isnt screwing up your wave(s), it's nice to have him around.

l Helios lJan 25, 20161 votes

I don't mind wave manipulation but I've have people destroy freezes because they wanted the wave to shove so they could do dragon or keep minions away in case of a bad team fight.

Phoenix Kotori Jan 25, 20161 votes

If the jungle was responsible for a successful gank in your lane, you should accept the tax unless you Y needs the farm for Z period. Whoever got kill or assist is irrelevant.

l Helios lJan 25, 20161 votes

That's why I said specifically if he accomplishes nothing taxing is wrong. The problem with taking kills and creeps is the gold goes to one person, assists not being counted. The big thing is that approx. 18 gold per creep for 5 creeps taxed or so adds up over multiple ganks if the laner gets only assists. That's my point.

Phoenix Kotori Jan 25, 20161 votes

That's why I said specifically if he accomplishes nothing taxing is wrong.

I am not arguing against them if the jungle didn't at least force a summoner or them out of lane they have no business taxing you.

The problem with taking kills and creeps is the gold goes to one person, assists not being counted. The big thing is that approx. 18 gold per creep for 5 creeps taxed or so adds up over multiple ganks if the laner gets only assists.

Oh well the jungler needs to get ahead to help other lanes win as well. Assist especially as solo laner is still 40% of the kill additionally shutdown gold is automatically spread to the team somewhat.

And you should be fine and still ahead without it because your opponent will miss gold & experience while they are dead.

l Helios lJan 25, 20161 votes

Oh well the jungler needs to get ahead to help other lanes win as well.

This idea is kind of specific to circumstances. On a hard carry jungler (Elise, Rengar, Kha'zix etc.) maybe. On someone who is non-carry (Sion, Malphite, Sej., Zac, etc.) this mindset is silly. Sure they can buy more tank items and take more damage, but at the end of the game, their damage output is still much lower than a mid, an adc, or even a top laner nowadays.

Team gold is still team gold, but a kill on a Tristana > a kill on a Zac, in multiple ways. Likewise, CS on a Trist > CS on a Zac. That point remains consistent.

You do have leway with carries like Rengar but still, it shouldn't be more than 4 or 5.

Also I'm not hating on junglers. This goes for laners as well. Part of it is when a large wave is bot (12-15 creeps), you go to get it, ping it as well, and the Ezreal ults all of it or Viktor walks bot with you and lazers half the wave. That's what I mean too.

coeurloyalJan 25, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quinn of Yuri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=erWKI1oK,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-01-25T20:51:54.553+0000) Whoever got kill or assist is irrelevant.

I think this is the concept that most laners struggle with early on. People don't understand that KDA is irrelevant to game success, and advantages aren't won off the actual kill itself. It's all about what you do with that absence.

Phoenix Kotori Jan 25, 20161 votes

Exactly the enemy laner dying regardless of kills by high elo players is valued at -20 CS because the resource missed/lost while dead.

coeurloyalJan 25, 20161 votes

That and players at high elo are looking at team advantage--not just a lane advantage.

...you and I can be friends lol.