What if Thornmail's Thorns were active-centric, not passive-centric?

darkdill··2 votes·438 views

The problem with it being passive is that it CANNOT be strong, or it's OP/Toxic/etc. It gives your enemy no "windows of opportunity" to play around it; your enemy can only itemize against it with stuff like Mercurial Scimitar, Death's Dance, or Maw of Malmortius, which results in an arms race that Thornmail always loses at (no one ever gets %MPen with Thornmail).

Back in DotA All-Stars, the item Blademail was of similar design, but its thorns effect was based on an Active component. You activated the item, and it gave you 100% thorns toward ALL incoming damage (including spells) for a short time. The obvious counterplay was to bait the active and make your opponent waste it, then attack while it was on cooldown.

I have to wonder whether or not our Thornmail might do better if its Thorns effect was tied to a limited-duration active (it'd still only reflect damage from auto-attacks, not spells). That'd allow it to deal much more damage, but gives your opponents opportunities to outplay it. And if your opponents are smart enough not to attack you while it's up, you can still use it to deter enemies from attacking you while you make an escape or try to get into a good position.

5 Comments

KillerKell1 votes

How about this.

We keep the Thorns Passive, and against Auto Attacks only.

BUT we add a Passive. This Passive is a 3 Second Window (with clarity, so we need to add an effect) where the Champion will HEAL for the Damage Returned.

I'm cool with a fairly long CD on it as well. It would make it more viable with a nice 'Active Sustain' Option... but would be clear enough for people to realize "Use Abilities, don't heal that bastard AND take the Damage from Thorns!".

It DOES have Counter Play... don't Auto the guy when it's Active. Along with all those wonderful Disables, like Bard Ult pretty much wasting it. But in the right situation, it can swing a Fight.

Kitty Whiskers1 votes

Or we can just keep thornmail the same and build item 3151 then take deathfire and have item 3075. Lol...thornmail procs liandry's which proc's deathfire. Tested it on ap cho'gath and works currently. Lol i got like 8/2 and a luc killed himself autoing me. I literally did nothing in return.

Rebonack1 votes

Well...

Honestly?

I would say get rid of the damage return completely and instead give Thorn an OnHit bleed effects (stacking, maybe?) that applies Grievous Wounds. Then give it a ranged active that completely shuts down all lifesteal for a few seconds. The item's purpose would be the same (kick lifesteal in the nuts) but it would do so in a much more interactive fashion that would probably be easier to balance.

swiftsnipe1 votes

sunfire cape has been around since 2009.

It still hasn't been changed to a toggle effect.

i don't see riot changing this to an active ability.

Erractic Eick1 votes

Well, this may sound stupid, but I am not a technically proficient player, by which I mean I cannot press buttons well, since I am a degenerate, so I for one appreciate a defensive item that doesn't require finger reflexes to be useful.

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