Why does Riot insist on making Zoe an absolute bitch to deal with?

Glîtchy·Dec 30, 2018·7 votes·1,918 views

the sleep + paddle star is practically a 1 shot with just "lost chapter" how the fuck does anyone find this champ fair? this champ is really just a complete bitch to deal with.

21 Comments

DEADxxMANDec 30, 20185 votes

Zoe "Yes! This'll be fun! Right?" summoner 11 ok actually u can counter zoe [zombie-brand-clap] try to play zed or fizz and dodge her E then use your combo

GlîtchyDec 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

"Yes! This'll be fun! Right?" ok actually u can counter zoe [zombie-brand-clap] try to play zed or fizz and dodge her E then use your combo

don't play either

DuskDaUmbreonDec 30, 20184 votes

Dodge her E and her killing potential is basically zero, unless you're dumb enough to give her the 20+ seconds it'll take to kill you with W and passive.

GlîtchyDec 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Dodge her E and her killing potential is basically zero, unless you're dumb enough to give her the 20+ seconds it'll take to kill you with W and passive.

still 1-shot abilities with only 1 partial item is not ok, remove that scaling

DuskDaUmbreonDec 30, 20182 votes

Most mages can pull off a one-shot with their entire kit.

GlîtchyDec 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Most mages can pull off a one-shot with their entire kit.

they need at least 2 full items (AP items like Luden's + Lich bane) to do that, Zoe, just needs to say "fuck you" then fire it off

DuskDaUmbreonDec 30, 20183 votes

lolwut

1 item at most for basically every mage will either one-shot you or do just about that if they hit their full combo.

It's still just more compressed for Zoe because her QE has to have the damage of a full combo, due to that being her only damage.

GlîtchyDec 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

lolwut

1 item at most for basically every mage will either one-shot you or do just about that if they hit their full combo.

It's still just more compressed for Zoe because her QE has to have the damage of a full combo, due to that being her only damage.

well thing is they actually have to DO SOMETHING, not just headbutt their keyboard.

DuskDaUmbreonDec 30, 20183 votes

Zoe has to land her E and then have an open shot for Q.

This makes her functionally no different from Lux, who just has to land Q to land her R and E for a kill.

chipndip1Dec 30, 20186 votes

{quoted}

well thing is they actually have to DO SOMETHING, not just headbutt their keyboard.

Blaustoise already released statistics stating that Zoe's one of the harder champs to learn in the game, with a very high 0 game to 100 game delta.

Just cause you're salty doesn't mean you're right.

Z3SleeperDec 30, 20183 votes

Uhhh... Syndra? QE is essentially the same shit as Zoe bubble only it goes through minions too!

And you’re most defibitely cucked after that.

Malix FarwinDec 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

they need at least 2 full items (AP items like Luden's + Lich bane) to do that, Zoe, just needs to say "fuck you" then fire it off

Thats not true at all. i can blow up someone a lot more reliably on Annie with just item 1058 and can do it through the minion wave unlike Zoe.

{quoted}

her e is on a low as fuck cooldown. everytime your abilities is up to all in her its back. but i dont find the e is the issue. itse her passive auto attack that she gets if she r's to you. not broken but she should get it if she hits q or e not her fucking r which doesnt land on anything

16 seconds is low um what? You arent putting a second point into E till like lvl 8.

Malix FarwinDec 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

still 1-shot abilities with only 1 partial item is not ok, remove that scaling

Mathmatically you cannot one shot someone with just a lost chapter even with absolute focus.

UnstopableBTWDec 30, 20181 votes

her e is on a low as fuck cooldown. everytime your abilities is up to all in her its back. but i dont find the e is the issue. itse her passive auto attack that she gets if she r's to you. not broken but she should get it if she hits q or e not her fucking r which doesnt land on anything

iiGazeiiDec 30, 20184 votes

Zoe is skillshot dependent and needs to land her CC in order to deal big damage.

Grab an MR rune or two before the game starts. Bone Plating (Resolve) and Nullifying Orb (Sorcery) really screw with her damage. Consider taking Cleanse as an emergency way to avoid her sleep when you're low, especially if their jungler also has lockdown CC. This not only saves you from a huge amount of her burst, but also doesn't feed her an aggressive summoner to use.

Start building MR once you've finished your first item. Banshee's Veil absolutely wrecks her with the spell shield.

The key to beating Zoe is keeping your minions between you and her. Everything she does is blocked by minions, so use that to your advantage. She might try to use Portal Jump to try to land a cheeky sleep, but otherwise, she should need to clear out minions to hit you with anything. This means she's pushing, making her easy prey for a jungler. Even if your jungler doesn't camp her (which they should be doing since she has no escape), you can keep her push frozen pretty easily and harass her while she tries to retreat.

Zoe is pretty easy to beat in lane. She does a lot of damage if you let her land her spells, but she actually has to land them, which means you didn't dodge, you didn't use minions to block it, or you stayed pushed up without minions. In all cases, you messed up. That doesn't make Zoe overpowered.

KFCeytronDec 30, 20182 votes

Why? Because the anger you're feeling right now makes you more likely to maintain a deeper connection with the game. According to Riot, anyway...

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/96922n/ghostcrawler_is_moving_off_of_league_of_legends/e3yw1p9/

Inkling CommandoDec 30, 20182 votes

they did something better than nerfing her. they gave her competition. ( Neeko )

GlîtchyDec 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Goblin Ranger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=el7mp4e5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-30T05:23:56.465+0000)

they did something better than nerfing her. they gave her competition. ( )

Neeko needs a nerf as well but only a slight damage nerf on ult and Q, but very slight, other than that, I see no problems but if no damage nerf on Q make it a skillshot instead of snaring everything in its path until it hits max range.

PsyrixDec 30, 20182 votes

I'm just gonna c+p what ive said before: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/7TRVZ3Qr-playing-against-zoe

For quite some time I have honestly been seeing something of a circlejerk when it comes to the Zoe hatred. Some saying there is no counterplay against her kit, others just straight up disliking the bursty nature of her kit and compounding it on to the already existing disgust lol. However, often times these are complaints made due to being caught out, or simply not knowing how to play against her. She's much easier to handle than a Zed, Fizz or Yasuo matchup. But sometimes it's easier to say a champ is annoying and broken rather than learn how to play against them. I'm not saying this to try and aggravate you by saying "Oh you suck, git gud!" etc. Just saying that to bring awareness to that bias, and to precede the advice I'm about to give in playing against Zoe. Additionally, I'm not going to really debate the balance of her kit, just address the ways in which it may be played around, and countered directly.

Firstly, I want to address the issues held with her E (and resulting combo). Specifically how it may be used over walls. How do you deal with a lux q’ing through walls late game then ulting you? Either take cleanse, buy qss, buy mr, or buy a stopwatch item.... or be prepared to flash/use a mobility spell the moment u see it coming out. (These are all "or's", just getting one of these will do you wonders). Aside from that, group as a team so if you are hit by the bubble a tank can soak up the incoming dmg. You can also opt to not hug the walls, if you know the general direction of where Zoe is, stay closer to the opposite wall. It won’t be able to reach you because it is coded to not even be able to touch the opposite wall of what it came out of. It’s much like an Ashe arrow in that you have to pay attention and expect it to come flying whenever u don’t see her... the benefit however is that it’s a much smaller skillshot. Therefore map awareness and vision are great tools against this, as such ward, try not to enter fog of war with no nearby vision/without the intent of setting up vision. This is not to say you will never be hit by the bubble, just a tactic that helps a lot (and should be done regardless of whether or not a Zoe is on the enemy team).

In terms of other counterplay against Zoe, specifically in lane, the Q (Paddlestar) has a lot of telegraphing (due to it having two casts), the fact that it deals more damage based on distance means if you play closer to Zoe, while it will be harder to dodge, it means she won’t be able to achieve as much damage as a fully ranged one. This also means she’s more vulnerable to getting killed. This is the most volatile counterplay strategy to implement though, so I wouldn’t advise using it unless you intend to all in her.

Use your minion wave to your advantage, play parallel to them, especially when they separate into caster and melee. The paddlestar isn’t true aoe (passes through units), instead it only hit's one target then deals a small splash damage. This splash is unlikely to hit and damage you if you are behind the minions. (Parallel not touching). So use this when you are expecting a paddlestar to target you. Alternatively, move slightly perpendicular/delineating from the trajectory of the skillshot, while at the same time trying to move closer to Zoe. It’s a thin skillshot and must hit something in order to deal any splash damage. Use this downtime to try and trade. As a caveat she must ALWAYS be within 800 units of the Q, I’ll reference this later again, but Yh, use that to your advantage.

W (Spellthief) can be avoided by simply zoning her. You’ll know which minion she’ll want to prioritize due to the balloon. Back to the fundamentals of laning: you can force your opponent to miss CS by threatening dmg (especially if they’re trying to secure the last hit via auto attack). Failing this, the shard dropped requires Zoe to be almost literally on top of it to pick up (quite a bit less than most melee attack range) so there's another chance to zone her away from it... if you have no choice but to let her take it, try to punish her for it. After she gains the spell, depending on how aggressive it is (e.g. ignite, exhaust), play a bit more conservatively. By extension, be extra mindful in how you use your summoners. Think of why, where and when you’ll use them and whether or not Zoe will be able to pick them up, and if they would be of any particular use to her. (Also keep in mind what items/summoners she has access to)

E (the famous sleepy trouble bubble). Play a bit closer to ur wave if u think u’ll get hit by it, doing so allows u the chance to use the drowsy time to reposition yourself to where a minion will block paddlestar (the splash of paddlestar deals 20% less damage btw). The skillshot itself is extremely telegraphed but requires you look at her MODEL and its animation, rather than waiting for it to come out, thereby giving you much more time to react than if you were just looking for the bubble itself to come flying out. It being a thin skillshot while in bubble form, and around the same speed as morg’s and lux’s Q’s, it is relatively easy to dodge. Once it forms the trap however, be sure to pay attention to it, don’t walk into it thinking Zoe’s no longer nearby. (Generally I’ll fire it as a trap through walls and stay nearby, I take comet so I get the notification of it being triggered and prepare Q and R) the trap is a Zoning tool, the same reason you don’t ---or rather, shouldnt --- walk into Orianna’s ball when she has ult up, you don’t walk into the trap. Walk around it if you have to. It can also be cleansed as said before.

Finally, her ult: Portal jump. Don’t throw your cc on the first jump, place it on the return portal. You can still deal damage to the first jump, but try to keep most of it reserved for the return portal just in case it’s not enough to kill her... she is effectively self rooted for a little while. The portal itself only has 575 range so it’s not impossible to get in range to dmg her for most, if not all, champs (this is just counting the distance, not the obstacles in the way/whether or not you have vision). It doesn't mean you will always be able to deal this damage, but keep this in mind.

Creative Zoe’s will be hard to deal with because they won’t be so binary in how they throw their Q. However, many players will just throw the q backwards then forwards and won’t weave in her passive. Keep that in mind... If Zoe builds lichbane first.... then it delays some of her dmg and makes her weaker... but the passive effect becomes more noticeable (after the nerfs tho this is much less relevant) therefore her poke does become stronger... but also requires her to play much closer to you, If an assassin, you can use this to turn on her instead and either chunk, or kill her. Remind her that you too are able to deal damage. Don’t play passively against her, don’t be afraid to be aggressive (in fact do be aggressive) but also play intelligently, don’t be mindlessly trying to hit her.

Zoe is countered by both assassins, and tanks. Bruisers/Divers are also a good class against her. The Assassins (and Divers) are able to get up close and personal with Zoe, something she hates and fears, and burst her down quickly. Tanks are able to soak up her damage and prevent access to primary targets (That ADC in the backline). If you are able, draft a tank for sure.

If despite all this you think you won't be able to deal with Zoe in lane, you can pick a champ with excellent waveclear, force her to spend most of her Q's keeping the waves managed. Or, something I wouldn't suggest you do since you'll not learn the matchup doing this, ban her.

I'd suggest playing Zoe so you get an actual idea of both her strengths and weaknesses, as well as to appreciate the skill a good Zoe player has.

But yh... I think that's most of it... If I can think of/remember anything else, I'll add it on. Hope this is helpful to you guys.

EDIT: Forgot to add this lol. If you are getting hit by her abilities quite often, especially the E, and taking more damage than you appreciate, buy Mercury treads. This is one item which will infuriate a Zoe. It's magic resist is respectable for one, def takes off a significant edge from Zoe's attacks, not just this tho, the tenacity it grants means that a Zoe has less time to prep her E-Q combo, most of the time meaning she'll have to either sacrifice range (thus damage) or sacrifice some reliability in accuracy due to how much it lowers the sleep CC duration. I'd say it's the most noticeable CC duration decrease. You also have the option of taking nullifying orb in the Sorcery runeline.

Dr DogDec 30, 20182 votes

i would be fine with her if she wasnt rewarded for missing her bubble with a zoning tool thats stays on the ground for way too long, oh and ofc her bubble needs a higher cd its so unfairly low

NetorareDec 30, 20181 votes

Oh look another Zoe qq thread. Is it really this hard to dodge a linear skill shot or to buy merc threads? How about not staying near the damn walls when there's a zoe in the match, letting her get the free spell shard and not even trying to contest it and then u wonder why u die. Zoe is an easy champ to deal with if u use ur brain. Only zoe can 1 shot? How about this whole dmg meta where everyone is basically zoe... Zoe is a champ where u have to interact if u want to win the lane, not just to press some buttons and get an ez kill.