Since ranged no longer seem to have the sub par early game argument in effect...

Irelia Bot·Oct 29, 2016·52 votes·2,146 views

Can Fighters and tanks have Atma's back so they can have a hyper scaling late game fantasy as well?

65 Comments

warpenguin555Oct 29, 201622 votes

I'd rather just have a nerf to marksmen. i dont think letting everything hyperscale is a good idea

Dextix LTOct 30, 20164 votes

Riot nerfing marksmen. HAH. Would like to see that......

Ha1manOct 31, 20161 votes

Actually the design where one role gets to hyperscale while others don't is quite problematic and is at the root of most problems with current metagame.

warpenguin555Oct 31, 20161 votes

Yep. Do any ADC's actually fall off anymore besides Armor Pen Lucian?

DunkinNoobsOct 29, 201617 votes

Atma's can never come back so long as item 3748 exists. Their synergy together would simply be too strong.

EnloctOct 30, 20163 votes

Never liked that item anyway. Atmas please.

TwinkieProOct 30, 20161 votes

Do you want bruiser ADC? cuz thats what you'll get.

DeathBot666Oct 30, 201611 votes

Or it could get the hydra treatment and be melee only.

TwinkieProOct 31, 20161 votes

We might actually see shyvana come back. niiiiiiice.

ProfDrDeathOct 29, 20168 votes

Did ranged champions ever have a subpar early game as an intrinsic weakness? If anything, ranged champions always had the advantages over melee champions in the early stages - see Kennen whenever he was/is viable toplane, Jayce top (when viable), (old) Vladimir top, mid-lane match-ups between ranged and melees, ranged vs melee supports...

Irelia BotOct 29, 20169 votes

That is what people use to argue to justify their late game power house status.

LordGeovanniOct 30, 20161 votes

It was never true though Ranged were never weak early they were at their weakest early that isnt the same thing. An early adc that gets caught by a fighter could die if they dont flash and kite a late adc caught by a fighter took half their health by time they reach on top of the fighter and is takeing the rest while lifestealing and may kite if the fighter has help. Mages do the same thing except they have as much hp as tanks when they do it now while still haveing their damage and can heal by spamming spells and regains mana by killing enemies but also if they take damge they regain mana too so forget catching them oom and trying to take advantage of it

Critmaster GarenOct 29, 20166 votes

+ + = http://i.imgur.com/OB1B1bd.jpg

~ 40 ad ~ 20% crit ~ 20 armor ~ 400 health

UNIQUE passive: critical strikes cause your target to bleed for 10% of your bonus health as magic damage over 3 seconds. UNIQUE active : fires a line skillshot into the targeted direction, applies the bleed to all enemies hit, and snares the first enemy champion hit for 1 second. (cooldown however appropriate)

imo this would actually be a balanced version of atmas that could exist in the current game.

the good thing about wicket hatchets passive is, that it doesnt take a lot of critical strike chance on a champion to be fully effective, which is ideal for fighters. its enough to crit roughly once every 3 seconds to maintain the bleed.

this means adc who like to build more suishy and crit heavy definitely dont get more out of it than fighters.

Need Gold 4 TentOct 30, 20162 votes

very few fighters build crit either... though I can see why your main would love it based on your username

Critmaster GarenOct 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir HaxaIot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eko1yl7F,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-10-30T01:14:18.498+0000)

very few fighters build crit either... though I can see why your main would love it based on your username

thats why this item passive doesnt need a lot of crit to be useful. you only need to crit now and then to keep the bleed going. marksmen who stack a lot of crit dont really get more out of it.

there are other fighters who would like this aswell. XinZhao w makes him crit on every third auto attack for example.

ParoeOct 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eko1yl7F,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-10-29T23:22:09.705+0000)

imo this would actually be a balanced version of atmas that could exist in the current game.

the good thing about wicket hatchets passive is, that it doesnt take a lot of critical strike chance on a champion to be fully effective, which is ideal for fighters. its enough to crit roughly once every 3 seconds to maintain the bleed.

this means adc who like to build more ad and crit definitely dont get more out of it than fighters.

That atmas would be fantastic as a substitute for infinity edge. Problem though. Marksmen have similar base stats to tanks if not higher in some cases.

Can you imagine a graves running with that atmas, RFC, deaths dance, essence reaver, merc treads, and warmogs? 100% crit chance, 3000+HP, and 100+ resistances.

Irelia BotOct 30, 20161 votes

Make the AD based on BONUS health.

Make it based on things that marksmen never get much of anyways.

ParoeOct 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eko1yl7F,comment-id=000800010000,timestamp=2016-10-30T04:34:11.592+0000)

Make the AD based on BONUS health.

Make it based on things that marksmen never get much of anyways.

I mean... fair enough i suppose. It doesnt change the fact that some marksman do get them. Graves being an example. Jhin is another example, but his 'tanky' build is super rare.

Critmaster GarenOct 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

That atmas would be fantastic as a substitute for infinity edge. Problem though. Marksmen have similar base stats to tanks if not higher in some cases.

Can you imagine a graves running with that atmas, RFC, deaths dance, essence reaver, merc treads, and warmogs? 100% crit chance, 3000+HP, and 100+ resistances.

this version scales off bonus health. so it shouldnt be as useful on marksmen as on people who actually stack health.

RebonackOct 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eko1yl7F,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-10-29T23:22:09.705+0000)

imo this would actually be a balanced version of atmas that could exist in the current game.

the good thing about wicket hatchets passive is, that it doesnt take a lot of critical strike chance on a champion to be fully effective, which is ideal for fighters. its enough to crit roughly once every 3 seconds to maintain the bleed.

this means adc who like to build more ad and crit definitely dont get more out of it than fighters.

I would be okay with this purely to get Hachet back in the game.

Loved that item.

Fun fact: the various bleed effects Hatchet items gave stacked with each other (Pillager, Lightbringer, Hatchet) for nearly 300% bonus AD magic bleed damage. Used to build them along with Wit's and Sorc boots on Kog. The result was about as hilarious as you might expect.

Sona x RubickOct 29, 20163 votes

item 3153 item 3151 then people are just going to build those.

Irelia BotOct 29, 20162 votes

They can try but with BotRK in it's current state of not seeming to be worthwhile I don't know if that really will matter a huge amount.

Ruin LanceOct 29, 20163 votes

atma's will break the game if it gets re-added. tanks/bruisers will be building atma's and titanic every game and it will be stupid

Irelia BotOct 29, 201621 votes

You mean just like how ranged tops are breaking the game?

In other words it becomes more enjoyable for one class of champs at the expense of enjoyment for another?

I seriously almost never see Marksmen mains happy with the game so I don't see any reason to try and make them happy.

Ruin LanceOct 29, 20162 votes

i don't agree with the strength of ranged tops right now either. i'm just saying that i think it would be pretty absurd to have 2 health-scaling damage items at once.

Irelia BotOct 29, 20163 votes

I don't tend to see people getting titanic hydra much anymore. It's issue is that it only scales with auto attacks and the active but not in a huge amount.

Atma's on the other hand gave AD which applies to AD scaling abilities as well.

The Yetii RiderOct 29, 20161 votes

We don't have AD/Armor items, period.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 30, 20161 votes

not ranged top laers. ranged champions in general. which other class of champions are mandatory aside adcs huh? can we change that. for a change?

LordGeovanniOct 30, 20161 votes

Almost like 2 ad scaleing items (crit and lifesteal)

KetiOct 30, 20161 votes

They aren't breaking the game lol. They're just meta for the first time in years.

warpenguin555Oct 31, 20161 votes

They have been meta for years

Akali is SO HOTOct 30, 20163 votes

Get rid of the crit chance for some AD or Armor. If Atma's + Titanic is too good then just gut Atmas.

Akali is SO HOTOct 31, 20161 votes

Honestly, squishies wouldn't be able to abuse this at all considering the item gives no health at all by itself meaning they would have to invest in an additional health item which would take up another slot that could be used for damage which is what they don't want. There might be a few cases where the item is too strong on a few bruisers or possibly a few tanks, but I can't really think of any reason why it shouldn't return if it is balanced well.

ChizzahOct 30, 20162 votes

Honestly, all ranged champions should only come online late game with the potential to come online (late) mid game if they are fed.

There is a couple of things you can do:

Rework Crit Chance & Damage: The way I understand it is that at the moment when you crit you do double damage. With Infinity Edge you do even more.

Why not change it so for every 1% of crit change you add 1% of damage. This means with 50% crit chance you will only do 50% more damage or 100% more damage with something like IE.

Change Marksmen items into doing scaling maximum health damage based on enemy level (like lethality) so that they do more damage to tanks and bruisers but less to mages and assassins.

Obviously, this is just an idea that I did not think on fleshing out too much but I'm sure you get the gist of it.

VerdadeOct 30, 20161 votes

Actually, we need to: -remove defensive stats from marksmen items and make them PAY for any defense -reintroduce true hyperscaling (buff crit chance, AS and AD on ADC items). Flat AD/ARP builds are dominating meta right now, these builds are meant for assassins/AD casters

ChizzahOct 30, 20161 votes

Flat Penetration is already being taken care of I believe on the PBE at least. It is called Lethality now and it scales with the opponent you are hitting. So it does more damage to a level 16 than a level 9 character from what I have read and seen on youtube.

VerdadeOct 30, 20161 votes

ADCs are using ARP/AD builds because AS/Crit builds are nerfed so hard

ChizzahOct 30, 20161 votes

I really never noticed a nerf. I use crit build on Vayne, Ashe and Tristana. I use it on Jhin as well after building GB if I see I won't get early kills otherwise if I get early kills I agree Armor Pen is overpowered.

But like I just said in my previous reply they are already getting rid of armor pen and replacing it with lethality which scales based on enemy level...

ThørnOct 30, 20162 votes

WTB Atmogs and DFG

KyrrionOct 31, 20162 votes

{quoted}

WTB Atmogs and DFG

Garen 's wet dream.

RIP DFG Garen.

MarshbouyOct 30, 20161 votes

What's atmas?

LXIIOct 31, 20161 votes

+45 armor +15% critical strike chance

UNIQUE: You gain attack damage equal to 1.5% of your maximum health.

JasiwelOct 30, 20161 votes

Atma's was removed for a reason and replaced with Titanic Hydra (damage scales with HP). Also, Irelia Bot should not be complaining about scaling in any form. :P

That being said, melee is having a more bad time right now against Ranged. However, given the upcoming assassins rework, I would not expect any direct nerfs to ranged overall. As much as I would like for a bunch of them to see some tweaks, assassins would put them into a state we saw a season or so ago where they'd be deleted without much of a chance. Then everyone would complain Ranged is too weak and the cycle repeats.

In terms of Top lane alone, Jayce has proven to be a bit overboard and Gnar has detracting interactions only Teemo should be allowed. Kennen might be dealing too much damage AND having top-notch team fight capabilities (especially with the removal of Locket's aura). Karma is a bitch, but she's seen less often top than before. Top lane is all Quinn has left.

Irelia BotOct 30, 20162 votes

You act as though I care only about playing Irelia.

Irelia might get a new atma's and she might not. She was more of a wit's end buyer when Atma's was the thing to get for most.

JasiwelOct 30, 20161 votes

It was mostly a cheeky joke. :S

I want what's best for game health and I agree that ranged are oppressing melee diversity Top/Middle lanes.

LordGeovanniOct 30, 20161 votes

Id also like to see the return of Elsa's miracle even if they dont bring back philosopher's stone id be nice to have that extra hp/5 and mp/5 especially with my tanks and briusers with no way to regain mana unlike their ranged counterparts

Irelia BotOct 30, 20161 votes

they kinda did but then they nerfed it {{item:3800}

It is too of the way to build on basically anyone now.

EDIT: was thinking of Shurelya's Reverie

LordGeovanniOct 31, 20161 votes

Yea that is a different item Elsa's Miracle was the item you bought that dissipated after 3 level ups but its effects were still there that was a a staple on every one of my characters for a late game advantage on squishies for more poke and poke resistance and for tanks and bruisers it was good for the mana regen and the hp5 only really mattered early