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It's Your Fault: The Spirit of Competition

Zero Shingetsu··10 votes·806 views

After playing a lot of competitive HotS matches, I mused on League and how my experience differs between the two games. While discussing the matter of toxicity and competitive drive with my friend, we came to a realization:

The only common factor between all your losses is you.

People are swift to blame teammates. So-and-so didn't ADC well enough. Mid fed. The jungler didn't gank. Whatever. But the fact of the matter is, you are the only common denominator present in every one of your losses. You can only account for your own play. Trashing your teammates for your loss accomplishes nothing, save for encouraging yourself to cling to negative emotion that drives you to make stupid plays in your next game.

I think this tendency is born of something deeper, though: The inability for people to see this game for what it is. This is a video game. It's for fun. You're not going to become a billionaire, or change the world, or found a nation, or what have you, if you climb to Challenger and crush your opposition. Ask yourself why you're playing this game. I can guarantee you it eventually comes back to enjoying yourself. Having a good time.

Before you chime in with, "Well I'm not having a good time if the asshats bot are feeding," I'm going to clue you in on something vital about unavoidable the essence of competition.

For you to win, someone else has to lose.

When two sides are opposed, every element has an inverse.

This is why competition is meant to be a friendly thing. Not doing so well? No big deal, you gave it your best shot. Pat eachother on the back, congratulate your opponents, and move on to the next game. Had an amazing performance? Thank your opponents for the game and move on. You'll be in their shoes before long. This is the essence of competition.

There are only two things that have starkly opposed interests: Competition and conflict. League of Legends is most certainly not conflict. For conflict to be present, one must have a mutually contested goal. Something serious. Something with lasting consequences. War is a conflict, because the winner decides the fate of millions. Legislative debates are conflict because the future of the nation is at stake. Arguments over your career are a conflict because the winner dictates how comfortably you're living for the foreseeable future.

A win or loss in League of Legends carries none of that weight. Assuming you get to the very top of the game, and no one has your skill... Assuming that point is utterly undisputed... What does that profit you? Bragging rights? Big deal. Bragging rights are great, but they're superficial, and anyone with sense recognizes this.

"But I might go pro!" Take it from someone who has played Tekken for money on numerous occasions: If you want to make money, get a career. If you want to have fun, play games. The prize money in a gaming tournament has never added up to the sheer fun factor of the game itself. It's a "grass is always greener" concept. You think everything would be perfect if you could just edge yourself into the LCS scene, but you'd soon find the income is unreliable and if you're not careful, you stop enjoying the game entirely because it becomes more of a job.

In the end, you are here for recreation.

No recreational activity is important enough to throw around terms like "dog eat dog", "you have expectations to meet", or any of the other nonsense I've seen flying around the boards on this topic. If you wouldn't tell your buddy to fall on a sword because he missed a few rebounds in a pickup basketball game, it's something you shouldn't be throwing around on League either. League is no more important than a friendly game of two-hand touch in the park, or a round of miniature golf.

28 Comments

Raiyza5 votes

Here we go again....

There is nothing you can do when one laner is 0/10 at 12 minutes. Oh youre playing lucian with a ton of kite ability? Awesome. The 9/0 pantheon just flash stunned you under the tower. Now you just lost another tower and dragon.

Have fun.

Edit: Its true that i account for my own play, but theres 4 other players. If one of them makes colossal mistakes, game is over. Even if i am 10/0 myself.

Kyaza2 votes

This post has been bookmarked by me because i have friends who need to read it

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

As much as i agree with you, there are some key problems.

The only common factor between all your losses is you.

In theory yes. Not in practice. I've said this countless times but w/e. You can be playing almost like a god (considering your skill ofc) and you still managed to lose because your team threw the game to the next plane of existence. For example, you might had helped the lost lane, you might had said your team to follow your calls. And yet you lost, because the lane that you helped did a very bad (and usually uncalled) play which led to him losing the lead that he gained through your help. You lost because despite your attempts to lead your team to victory, one of them did a very big and almost noob mistake (like wandering to the unwarded jungle alone when everyone from the enemy team was nowhere to be found) which led to him getting caught out and killed, and thus in turn the enemies forced a teamfight where you were one man less, and we all know who has the upper hand in situations like these.
Now im not saying blaming is the way to go. Im just saying that the quote "The only common factor between all your losses is you" might be wrong.

You can only account for your own play. Trashing your teammates for your loss accomplishes nothing

Exactly. You account your own play. But that also means that your teammates might lose it. And you dont have to trashtalk in order to lose.

The inability for people to see this game for what it is. This is a video game. It's for fun.

Well some people, including me have fun by winning. Or generally by having a close match. I mean, can you have fun, when the 10-0 adc comes mid to proceed to stomp you just because he has a huge advantage? Or rather even more simplified, do you like playing a grey screen simulator? Thats what im playing when one of my teammates has lost his lane hard.

Ask yourself why you're playing this game. I can guarantee you it eventually comes back to enjoying yourself.

Oh thats easy bud. I love playing lol because i like their champs, i like the feeling that i get when i win a trade through outmaneuvering my opponent and yada yada yada. BUT all these are IMPOSSIBLE if one of the enemies gets a slight advantage thanks to riot's idea to make everyone capable of snowballing. Because its fun fighting someone that has an immense advantage over you and your team.

congratulate your opponents, and move on to the next game.

Sure. But there is a tiny little bit of problem here. Ahem. There is a high chance the next match will proceed the exact same. I mean i can handle 3 or 4 consecutive losses that are caused by the same source, but thats about it. Any more and i will get a little bit titled. (bonus tilt points if i tried to encourage my teammates/gave them advices and didnt pay me attention. ). Ofc im not going to trashtalk and in the occasion that i am going to, i just shut myself and mute eveyrone just to be safe. Im so close at getting a skin and i sure as fk wont delay it just because of teammates that cant play safe.

IP Masquerena2 votes

But you forget one aspect: The enemy team has more chances to get the same monkeys you have, assuming you are not one of them.

The main problem of "my team lost me the game" is that players assume they are better. most things go like this:

  • Enemy made a mistake and died? "Ha ha noob, l2p, you can't match my zkillz"
  • Ally made a mistake and died? "Report noob, can't play"
  • Player made a mistake and died? "Report my team, can't carry"

We all have games where our team loses it for us. I still want to choke that Vayne who ended my 11 win streak because he thinks he's an LCS player telling us stuff like "I won't help you because our team comp can't protect me and you will just steal all my kills". That's what he told us, when we almost won the game 4v5, we just needed him to attack that Baron with us a few time, and there, win for us.

But then again, keeping your team calm is an art, that many just can't do and it doesn't always work, but atm, I won 15 of my last 17 games in ranked, yet since I play ranked (s6), my highest loss streak in ranked is 8 games, but many of them were my fault, yet my highest win streak is 11.

Confirmation bias is the main aspect of players losing. They don't look for mistakes in the enemy team, but only for mistakes in their team, and that clouds their mind. I don't care if someone died a few times, how can I make them useful for my game? Darius is 0-7 and they have Malz? Tell him to flash on Malz and force him to use his ult on the Darius. Boom, we can the fight off of that.

You won't lose too many in a row because of noobs, yes you can lose a few here and there, but not too many, if you are as skilled as you think you are. (not referring to you in particular). But many players aren't as good as they think they are "Oh, I am 0-7 by 10 minutes vs Aatrox who can 1v2, but it's not my fault for first timing, it's the jg's fault for not camping my lane" (hint, even tho it was a normal game, I did try to gank that lane, but Aatrox 1v2 because Kayle did just watch my fight, then go in to die as well)

In the long run, noobs and bad players win you more than lose you, but people don't consider this because they look for mistakes in the ally team, and when doing so, they find mistakes and start blaming.

Also items are something people don't consider.

  • "Hey, I'm ad based but that Vlad heals a bit too much for me to kill him? Broken champ, Rito gut pls" ignoring the fact that Executioner's Calling is an item in the game. I've had players calling me hacker because they weren't healing for as much as they should, and thus die.
  • Hey, I'm ad based but that mage is annoying me, I'll one shot him after I get my Duskblade" ignores the fact that Hexdrinker can turn around fights like no other item.

People just want damage and there are items in this game that they don't even know that exist.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

All good points, and a bonus for bringing up Executioner's Calling. One of the most frustrating things for me in this heal-heavy meta is the fact that no one buys it, and when I get it on Galio because literally no one else will and we're up against Garen, Volibear and Vayne, I get trashed.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

But you forget one aspect: The enemy team has more chances to get the same monkeys you have, assuming you are not one of them.

In theory. In practice it can get a bit tricky.

The main problem of "my team lost me the game" is that players assume they are better. most things go like this:

I personally dont assume im better than my teammates. I assume that we are more or less equal skill level. Or at least hoped. I dont know anymore.

Confirmation bias is the main aspect of players losing. They don't look for mistakes in the enemy team, but only for mistakes in their team, and that clouds their mind. I don't care if someone died a few times, how can I make them useful for my game? Darius is 0-7 and they have Malz? Tell him to flash on Malz and force him to use his ult on the Darius. Boom, we can the fight off of that.

Well to be totally fair. Its no use seeing the mistakes of the enemy if you are unable to take advantage of them. And good luck commanding someone (usually) that got stomped. Its a miracle on its own way if he followed your call.

You won't lose too many in a row because of noobs, yes you can lose a few here and there, but not too many, if you are as skilled as you think you are.

Basically what Raiyza said. "There is nothing you can do when one laner is 0/10 at 12 minutes"(unless you are a god/challenger). While this might not be absolute, the chances that your presence might get that laner back on track is more slim than the fking atom can get. Their enemy laner will have gone way WAY ahead. While you are there at your lane, with no kills (worst case scenario) and some cs.

Also items are something people don't consider.

  • "Hey, I'm ad based but that Vlad heals a bit too much for me to kill him? Broken champ, Rito gut pls" ignoring the fact that Executioner's Calling is an item in the game. I've had players calling me hacker because they weren't healing for as much as they should, and thus die.
  • Hey, I'm ad based but that mage is annoying me, I'll one shot him after I get my Duskblade" ignores the fact that Hexdrinker can turn around fights like no other item.

Ho boi. When people dont build the appropriate builds i feel like a demon possess me and tasks me to hate them with every fiber of my being.

IP Masquerena1 votes

I can agree that it's hard to pull off, but I did manage to pull it off more often than not. Yes, it won't happen always, but it does happen quite a lot.

You need to calm your team down from the 1st mistake/flame, not 20 mins in-game, because at that point, it's already too late.

The reason for which you need to make a habit to watch the enemy mistakes, especially early game, so you can capitalize on them that early. The difference between your laner going 0-10 and the enemy laner going 0-10 is the abusing mistakes. I've made enemy mids facing me rq, even their jg XD (was fun tilting that Kindred)

You need to watch for those mistakes from min 1, as at 20 mins late, it can already be too late.

Start abusing early, any small mistake can lead to a kill, you just need to watch for it, and plan ahead. You can force the enemy to make mistakes by planning ahead.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

I can agree that it's hard to pull off, but I did manage to pull it off more often than not.

Well then what can i say. Good for you. Looks like you got teams that can cooperate. Im not that lucky. Usually.

You need to calm your team down from the 1st mistake/flame, not 20 mins in-game, because at that point, it's already too late.

Great idea! Too bad it doesnt work most of the times. Its unreliable.

The reason for which you need to make a habit to watch the enemy mistakes, especially early game, so you can capitalize on them that early.

Its not easy to capitalize when the jungle threat is always around. Plus its not like im playing champs that are difficult for the enemy to deal with. Trying to deal damage to someone when all of your kit is skillshots is kinda difficult considering the enemy himself will have to not evade them.

You need to watch for those mistakes from min 1, as at 20 mins late, it can already be too late.

I prefer to just scale safely to late since my early damage is low and easy to dodge.

You can force the enemy to make mistakes by planning ahead.

Great idea! Now care to share it how?

IP Masquerena1 votes

(I am a bit new to the boards so I won't use the quote stuff as I have issues with it still, but I will reply in the order of your statements)

  • It's not about luck. The team cooperates when they see they have with who to cooperate. You need to initiate a friendly/funny talk/joke with your team, be open, give them a heads up if you know they will get ganked, but all be friendly.

On 2 occasions I did it like this, 1st, a player was using Ninja skin on Rammus, and I was like "Donatello? I think you're in the wrong game", and everyone started laughing, someone made an early mistake and died as first blood, I told him "it's cool, mistakes happen, we got this", everyone went calm, Rammus camped and we won. 2nd occasion was with a Volibear who forgot to change rune pages, and when he said that, I replied with "it's cool Yogi, happens to all". We still lost that game, our Vayne was "I don't help you in fights because you can't protect me and you will just steal all my kills", but hey, the other 3 were listening knowing they can count on me and we almost won 4v5

  • Calming your team early is unreliable if you barely try it or do it wrong. For the first mistake, depending on the rest of the chat, I have 2 responses.
  1. It's cool, mistakes happen, stay calm.
  2. It's cool, we got this, stay calm and let's win. Works in 90% of the time for me, but I do it every game, not just once in a blue moon.
  • Are the champs you play being played by you because you like them or because they are strong at the moment? If it's just because they are strong right now, play something else, play simple champs like Annie, unless you are Diamond or above. If you play them because you like them, look at what you like at them, then try to find other champs with similar stuff, that can help you more.

As for the jungler threat. Unless you are hard camped, or Shaco (Always ban Shaco), you can predict where the enemy jungler is, or even make active play to find him. First 2 waves? Shove hard, and go place a deep ward in their jungle on the opposite side of where he started. It's kinda easy nowadays to know where junglers start. Knowing the jungler type, lane priority and gank potential, you can know how strong you are and if they can kill you or not, if you are gankable in the first place.

Example: Say enemy is a Master Yi jg and your lane enemy is Zed, you play Veigar. Yi tries to gank, you place a cage and move back. Zed can bypass it with his W, but Yi can't, if he already used his Q, which 90% of the time, he will use to initiate, so you're safe, wasted Yi's time, because you had a proper ward. But they can kill you if you are pushed, no wards and you use your cage as an initiation on Zed just to harras him, as Zed can get out with W and Yi isn't affected by it at all.

So again, enemy laner, jungler, lane priority, wards, kill potential.

  • Your damage can be low early game, but it can stack up. You don't need to kill if you can force the enemy to lose cs or force him out of lane. You do need to take risks, but make sure they are calculated. Look at the earlier example, Veigar vs Zed. Many times, Zed will dive at level 6, because he has a way out, but Zed's R always places him behind you from the spot he used it, so if you place your cage there, when he comes out, he's stunned and under tower. At best, he'll go 1 for 1, and if that's the best, then it means most of the time, he dies, you don't. That's a level 6 example, but it all depends on how well you know the match-up and your skills. Let the enemy outplay themselves.

I once was Kat vs a Yasuo mid. He would always throw his Q tornadoes on my Q daggers, because Kat should always jump on them, right? Well, I didn't, so I won lane because he never hit me with a tornado, at one point, completely stopped throwing them after me or daggers, because after a good number of tornadoes on daggers, he tried to send them on me, and that's when I jumped. He wasted a lot of time like that, so I won the lane.

  • It's simple. Think of what the enemy can do, what you can do, and how you can counter it. That Zed vs Veigar level 6 is a great example. Use your skills to your advantage. You kill that Zed twice in the same way, obviously he won't jump on you until you use your Cage, but what if you don't use it? He will never jump on you, so you are free to harras him as much as you like, as long as you don't take too much damage yourself in return.

3 steps:

    • How can the enemy hurt me?
    • How can I avoid it?
    • How can I hurt him back?

That knowledge comes when you play a select few champs a lot, because you know your skills better than enemy knows them. Experiment with builds, skills, etc. Cookie cutter builds are fine, but they won't always work, and you can use that against the enemy. In lower ranks, 90% of the players build like that, the cookie cutter build, so you know what to expect and how to work around it.

Nyarlathοtep

It's not about luck. The team cooperates when they see they have with who to cooperate. You need to initiate a friendly/funny talk/joke with your team, be open, give them a heads up if you know they will get ganked, but all be friendly.

Again, all this is unreliable. The chances that you might get someone that is actively friendly is way way too low. Besides, some of us find it too much of a bother. Hell most of the times i dont have time to say a joke since im pinging danger to someone.

On 2 occasions I did it like this, 1st, a player was using Ninja skin on Rammus, and I was like "Donatello? I think you're in the wrong game", and everyone started laughing, someone made an early mistake and died as first blood, I told him "it's cool, mistakes happen, we got this", everyone went calm, Rammus camped and we won. 2nd occasion was with a Volibear who forgot to change rune pages, and when he said that, I replied with "it's cool Yogi, happens to all". We still lost that game, our Vayne was "I don't help you in fights because you can't protect me and you will just steal all my kills", but hey, the other 3 were listening knowing they can count on me and we almost won 4v5

Good for you. I cant rely though on getting friendly teammates. Hell being friendly in lol is a challenge on its own.

) It's cool, we got this, stay calm and let's win. Works in 90% of the time for me, but I do it every game, not just once in a blue moon.

Again good for you. I dont get teammates like these.

Are the champs you play being played by you because you like them or because they are strong at the moment? If it's just because they are strong right now, play something else, play simple champs like Annie, unless you are Diamond or above. If you play them because you like them, look at what you like at them, then try to find other champs with similar stuff, that can help you more.

Im going to thoroughly ignore this. You shouldnt have to play a certain champ in order to climb. (unless you are at the upper tiers) Whats the point of winning if i do it with a champ that i dont enjoy? Besides those meta picks are highly contested or banned.

As for the jungler threat. Unless you are hard camped, or Shaco (Always ban Shaco), you can predict where the enemy jungler is, or even make active play to find him. First 2 waves? Shove hard, and go place a deep ward in their jungle on the opposite side of where he started. It's kinda easy nowadays to know where junglers start. Knowing the jungler type, lane priority and gank potential, you can know how strong you are and if they can kill you or not, if you are gankable in the first place.

Maybe. But it doesnt amount to anything. Again i dont like early game champs as such my kill potential is low. Plus i usually play champs that are good at teamfighting. So me trying to kill him is a no-no.

Example: Say enemy is a Master Yi jg and your lane enemy is Zed, you play Veigar. Yi tries to gank, you place a cage and move back. Zed can bypass it with his W, but Yi can't, if he already used his Q, which 90% of the time, he will use to initiate,

Oh you are getting yis that use their q like this? Lucky you....

Your damage can be low early game, but it can stack up. You don't need to kill if you can force the enemy to lose cs or force him out of lane. You do need to take risks, but make sure they are calculated. Look at the earlier example, Veigar vs Zed. Many times, Zed will dive at level 6, because he has a way out, but Zed's R always places him behind you from the spot he used it, so if you place your cage there, when he comes out, he's stunned and under tower.

As i said earlier, my damage isnt only low, but easy to avoid too. The tactic poke him when he goes to cs? Yeah it doesnt work because my spell takes too long to activate. Ive tried it millions of times. They can evade it with ease. And not every mages has a stun that stuns for so long.

I once was Kat vs a Yasuo mid. He would always throw his Q tornadoes on my Q daggers, because Kat should always jump on them, right? Well, I didn't, so I won lane because he never hit me with a tornado, at one point, completely stopped throwing them after me or daggers, because after a good number of tornadoes on daggers, he tried to send them on me, and that's when I jumped. He wasted a lot of time like that, so I won the lane.

This is completely niche since you need to play champs like kata, aka those that can outplay. A velkoz-lux-xerath-ziggs-viktor and pretty much every other mages cant do it.

It's simple. Think of what the enemy can do, what you can do, and how you can counter it. That Zed vs Veigar level 6 is a great example. Use your skills to your advantage. You kill that Zed twice in the same way, obviously he won't jump on you until you use your Cage, but what if you don't use it? He will never jump on you, so you are free to harras him as much as you like, as long as you don't take too much damage yourself in return.

And also i almost forgot. The previous part with this example? You know its rare as fk. Usually zed will poke veigar and eventually force him to use his cage, and after he has used it zed will ulti on him and eat him alive.

3 steps:

    • How can the enemy hurt me?
    • How can I avoid it?
    • How can I hurt him back?
    • By getting hit by his abilities.
    • By sidestepping them (if they are skillshots, if they are point and click you cant)
    • By hoping he is dumb enough to not dodge my spells.

That knowledge comes when you play a select few champs a lot, because you know your skills better than enemy knows them

And thats why focusing on learning a single champs is the best option to climb.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Well some people, including me have fun by winning. Or generally by having a close match. I mean, can you have fun, when the 10-0 adc comes mid to proceed to stomp you just because he has a huge advantage? Or rather even more simplified, do you like playing a grey screen simulator? Thats what im playing when one of my teammates has lost his lane hard.

That's fair and understandable. I know some people are like that, but the hope with this post was to maybe broaden perspectives and help people realize that playing a game can be fun in and of itself. Think of it this way: Did you have more fun slaving away at work/school, or playing League when bot had a horrible game? If it was more fun than your average 9-to-5 job, you could've had a worse time.

Oh thats easy bud. I love playing lol because i like their champs, i like the feeling that i get when i win a trade through outmaneuvering my opponent and yada yada yada. BUT all these are IMPOSSIBLE if one of the enemies gets a slight advantage thanks to riot's idea to make everyone capable of snowballing. Because its fun fighting someone that has an immense advantage over you and your team.

I do agree with this. A large part of enjoying competition is ensuring the playing field is more or less equal, skill levels aside. In the same way that a UFC fight doesn't allow one guy to wear brass knuckles, or a football game doesn't start allotting free points to a team for every minute they retain the lead, Riot needs to ensure the competition is as "pure" as possible. I feel like the snowball meta causes problems on this front, but unfortunately, that's on Riot to correct.

Sure. But there is a tiny little bit of problem here. Ahem. There is a high chance the next match will proceed the exact same. I mean i can handle 3 or 4 consecutive losses that are caused by the same source, but thats about it. Any more and i will get a little bit titled. (bonus tilt points if i tried to encourage my teammates/gave them advices and didnt pay me attention. ). Ofc im not going to trashtalk and in the occasion that i am going to, i just shut myself and mute eveyrone just to be safe. Im so close at getting a skin and i sure as fk wont delay it just because of teammates that cant play safe.

That's understandable. Best I can do to try and alleviate this is tell you about a man called Dick Butkus. This man was a professional linebacker, during a time when sports earned you little more than the average working man's salary, if that. Butkus was a great player. One of the greats. So much so that they named an award after him.

Butkus played every down like a madman, flying all over the field, ripping ball carriers to the ground with reckless abandon. He played so hard he had severe knee issues not long into his career, yet he continued to play for several seasons after these started bothering him. Despite the constant pain in his legs, he played this game to his fullest potential day after day, year after year, until he was forced to retire by way of his body not allowing him to play anymore.

Why do I say this? I say this because Dick Butkus never won a championship. He rarely got to the playoffs. In fact, there was a season in which his team won only one game. Despite this, Butkus to this day doesn't regret his time playing football. Tough and brutish as he was on the field, he actually choked up while recounting the joy of playing the game. What he loved about the game, he loved so dearly that constant losses were only a temporary annoyance, and never a waste.

I'm not saying League is quite so dramatic, but the hope is that this guy (and others like him) can be an example to help us realize that, yes, we're on a losing streak right now. Yes, we've had some bad teams. But we're still playing a game we enjoy playing.

Nyarlathοtep

playing a game can be fun in and of itself

Yes it can. If its a close one. You cant have fun if you are getting stomped.

Think of it this way: Did you have more fun slaving away at work/school, or playing League when bot had a horrible game?

School all the way, or in my case university.

Butkus played every down like a madman, flying all over the field, ripping ball carriers to the ground with reckless abandon. He played so hard he had severe knee issues not long into his career, yet he continued to play for several seasons after these started bothering him. Despite the constant pain in his legs, he played this game to his fullest potential day after day, year after year, until he was forced to retire by way of his body not allowing him to play anymore.

I cant say for sure, since i havent played once american football, but the analogy with lol is kinda off. I mean sure, Butkus=your team getting stomped, football=lol. But the key difference is that he can still play. If the enemy (currently) has taken a lead, its going to stomp the other lanes to the ground with little difficulty. Butkus even with his condition he can play. We cant if we are getting stomped. Riot just doesnt want the team that loses to have a chance for comeback.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

Well, I'll give you that the game could be more competitive, and thus more fun. That's absolutely true, and that's on Riot to fix. Until they do, I'm simply theorizing some shifts in perception that might help us enjoy things a little more reliably despite the one-sided losses.

Diesis1 votes

You're actually full of shit, or just don't understand because it's more than a game. People spend more time getting high diamond/masters in this game than it takes to get a bachelors degree.

When you're at the higher end of players in this game, you're basically low key in the NBA, NFL, etc... Not that I've reached that point myself, but im getting reasonably close.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

You're actually full of shit, or just don't understand because it's more than a game. People spend more time getting high diamond/masters in this game than it takes to get a bachelors degree.

People put the same amount of time into golf, yet you don't see anyone telling the competition they hope they get cancer and die because they were a few holes over par. People put this kind of effort into tabletop strategy gaming, or even Magic: The Gathering, and I'm fairly sure no one has ever spit the kind of vitriol in those scenarios that you see on a daily basis in League. Hell, people put exponentially greater time and effort into combat sport, where they proceed to viciously brawl with the competition, and 90% of those fights end with the fighters shaking hands and bowing to one another.

When you're at the higher end of players in this game, you're basically low key in the NBA, NFL, etc... Not that I've reached that point myself, but im getting reasonably close.

This is why I hate e-sports. It ruins video games by creating this mentality, and the mentality is flawed. I'll tell you why.

In theory, playing high school football is the same as playing low-tier ranked League, on a comparative scale. Yet at the end of a high school football game, the teams shake hands and congratulate eachother. You don't see many high school football teams threatening their teammates or demanding they be thrown off the team because they had a bad game. I played O-line from middle school all the way through my last year of college, and I don't remember a single instance where any of us having an off game resulted in our halfback telling us where to go.

They don't do this in the military, where it's literally life and death. My brother-in-law, my grandpa, and two of my uncles all served and have shared stories of their comrades, strengths and flaws both. None of them included a time when someone was treated like dirt because they weren't moving fast enough, weren't landing shots efficiently enough, etc. Surely you don't mean to say League carries more gravity than war?

Raiyza1 votes

Youre going to compare league to golf? A purely solo experience to a 5v5 team game?

Lol.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

Purely on the basis that he was saying "WELL YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE AMOUNT OF TIME YOU PUT INTO LEAGUE, IT'S NOT JUST A GAME BRO"

Golf is another competitive hobby into which people pour hours upon hours. There is, in fact, team-based golfing as well. So it was an apt comparison. I notice you had no retort for the rest of my reply, though, which gives me confidence my arguments are sound.

Raiyza1 votes

Dont assume. I did read the rest and you are sound.

However, league still does not compare to golf or any other physical sport. People dedicate their lives to that sport. Nobody spends their life playing esports. Maybe at the most 5-10 years. You dont see anyone above 30 in the league esports scene, at least that I know of besides team owners. They dont count tho.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

Precisely my point, yeah. If people are going to pour their lives into something and not be as toxic as League players are to their teammates, something is wrong. League is a hobby, and shouldn't be held so central to one's existence as people often seem to treat it. Everyone - both the players the get trashed, and the players who trash them - would have a more enjoyable time playing this game if they just saw it in perspective.

Automated Riven1 votes

I had a guy start screaming and yelling at the game shop over a magic game. I have been physically punched over card games even. Children will be children. To equate this all to games online is pretty silly. Some people just by and large have no self control.

Diesis1 votes

I understand you are unhappy with the toxicity, lack of team comradry, and poor sportsmanship many people exhibit in this game. I feel you. Can't say I'm a great sport all the time but many times I've added or been added from people on my team or from the enemy team to congratulate or something else friendly, and I've really appreciated those people.

I mean all I can really tell ya is try to be one of the positive, good teammates, and sportsmanlike competitors. We both know that's the right way to be. I played football and basketball in school too and honestly do miss the sense of support for and from my team. Maybe playing on a competitive 5-man team in league you might experience something similar? Not sure tbh.

Anyways, I agree with a lot of your points but I just want to put it out there that this game is highly competitive, and is not merely something casual for everyone who plays it. Like ok play lower tier games is like playing pick-up basketball and people shouldn't be salty at all I get it man. But like diamond+ and the competitive scene, it's very serious and meaningful to the people who've devoted themselves to the game.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eh09To1P,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-03-31T06:52:43.143+0000) The only common factor between all your losses is you.

See, the only problem with this, is that it justifies people who have good win rates to berate their allies for bad play. It doesn't justify, but many think it does, people who have previously been at a higher rank to berate their teammates for bad play.

I'll explain here.

The only common denominator between all your losses is you. Equivalently: the only common denominator between all your wins is you.

If you have a lot of losses (or a win rate of around 50%), then sure, this statement should help support the mentality that it's NOT your teammates fault that you're losing games.

So, now let's say you have a 55% win rate, and you lose a game where a couple allies don't do so well.

Doesn't this very statement justify you abusing those teammates and claiming it's their fault you lost? Even if you honestly didn't play all that well, you're oblivious to that fact and are going to blame your allies. "I have a 55% win rate, I can't possibly be partly at fault for this because if you look at all my games, I generally WIN. I'm a winner, you're the loser and why we lost. I lose my 45% of games because I get crappy teammates like you!"

Then you get people who used to be a higher rank making the same argument. They're obviously wrong (your recent performance is below that ranking, that's why you're losing), but the argument in their head goes like "I'm good enough to make rank X>Y (I got there before on my own), yet I just lost at rank Y. It must be because I have crappy teammates!"

Now, think about: How many people are currently at a rank lower than their best ever ranking? How many people have win rates of over 51%?

If all of those people take the ever-repeated phrase "the only common denominator in all of your games is YOU" literally, they're bound to blame their allies for their losses.

The argument comes from a good spirit (convince people that complain they're stuck in low elo is because of themselves), but realistically it does the opposite!

What people need to understand about the quote is that YOUR average performance in YOUR losses is very likely to be worse than YOUR average performance in YOUR wins. YOU don't play the same in every game, you make mistakes in your losses that contributed to the loss, and if you want to climb you need to correct those mistakes.

I'll use myself as an example. I have a 58% win rate on Ahri (my main), 57% on her in Ranked Solo Queue (100% in ranked flex), and a 54% win rate in ranked solo queue overall. My last loss on Ahri, I went 7/8/5 with only 34% kill participation (sounds pretty bad, because frankly it is), HOWEVER I dealt BY FAR the most damage to champions in the game (which honestly is the story of my history with Ahri, I have an abysmal KDA for how good my win rate is, and it's largely because I don't care about KDA and I care about winning, getting damage down then taking objectives / roaming for allies, etc...). So, given my history, my performance on Ahri, etc... It'd be pretty easy for me to claim that I lost that game BECAUSE of my allies. I dealt 46K damage to champions. The next closest in the game was my pantheon top and enemy Anivia at 32K each. My ADC only dealt 24K damage. How could I possibly be the reason I lost that game?

But no, I wasn't raging at my ADC for doing so little damage. I know I made some mistakes that game I don't normally make. I might not have been the sole reason we lost (the enemy top laner starting 6/0 didn't help for example), but it was a close game and what I need to focus on to improve is my own performance. 8 deaths is unacceptable. I died 3 times because I got hit by the same Anivia stun from over the same wall in the same scenario (we were trying to siege mid and I approached the wall to place a ward over it right as her stun came flying out over it and hit me). I failed to just accept without vision that she would be there and to play differently, and let myself get severely chunked (possibly die) multiple times in the same spot. That was just dumb (maybe because I was tilted from the start in top lane, but my top laner DIDN'T tilt and brought himself back into the game and ended up beating their Aatrox throughout the mid and late game). If I hadn't been tilted or otherwise made those mistakes, I would have had a much better chance at winning that game.

Even though I may think I played as I normally do (KDA isn't great, my kill participation was much lower than normal though, but my damage was absurdly high which is what tends to win me games...), looking at MY OWN mistakes in that game is the only way I'm going to improve from it. I can't control an ignite pantheon losing lane hard to a teleport Aatrox. I can control myself not getting hit by a stun (with my ult up... :|) in multiple siege scenarios.

GhaelWinds1 votes

Aww, part of me was hoping to see my favorite troll, but you're back to normal now. Was fun while it lasted at least.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Aww, part of me was hoping to see my favorite troll, but you're back to normal now. Was fun while it lasted at least.

Oh, I'm sure I'll be back to my old tricks soon enough. :D

dnsup1 votes

This is the best post I've seen make it to the top in quite a while.

dnsup1 votes

{quoted}

This is the best post I've seen make it to the top in quite a while.

That being said, it's not really as true as it might have once been. The reason is the matchmaking and other factors of the game which change your experience based on what will keep you coming back [to spend money on the game, in the game, or via e-sports engagement].

But especially the matchmaking. There are so many people who play this game, and Riot only needs so many competitive players to keep their e-sports stuff going. They can't hype LCS (or whatever) if that requires them to hype 2,000 individual players; their featured entertainment cast needs to be small to be recognizable, to appear exclusive, etc. The question becomes: how do you keep it small without making turnover (from season to season) a problem? How do you motivate microtransactions? How do you keep your players starved for validation? The answer will generally involve some ideas like "design the rank-progression system and the matchmaking system so that at a critical juncture, a player is more likely to be matched in a way that disadvantages them" and "if a player plays a certain champion a lot, try to match them against better players who also play it and who have skins for that champion".

A proficient manipulator is proficient because their targets are unlikely to suspect having been manipulated; and because even if suspicions arise, their targets have no way of measuring or otherwise ascertaining they've been manipulated. And the product being sold has to "look good" to "enough people" for as long as possible.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

Definitely fair. The game could absolutely be better suited to the spirit of friendly competition, and it actually has been in the past. I do wish Riot would re-evaluate its current model in light of that. One reason I'm starting to favor HotS is that unranked play, and often even low ranked, is still considered something you do for fun. You get far less of the "DO IT RIGHT OR DON'T PLAY AT ALL" mentality when someone screws up.

dnsup1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eh09To1P,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2018-04-01T03:59:57.477+0000)

Definitely fair. The game could absolutely be better suited to the spirit of friendly competition, and it actually has been in the past. I do wish Riot would re-evaluate its current model in light of that. One reason I'm starting to favor HotS is that unranked play, and often even low ranked, is still considered something you do for fun. You get far less of the "DO IT RIGHT OR DON'T PLAY AT ALL" mentality when someone screws up.

On the subject of other games--I picked up League sometime in late 2012. I had so much fun in the first couple of seasons after starting; I spent more money on LoL, at that time, than I did on any video game before or since. Then very abruptly it became clear that Riot was taking the game another way, specifically related to the e-sports part of their businesses. A few decisions later and the game had stopped being fun. Then Ten Cent acquired the rest of the company that they hadn't already purchased, and nothing has really changed about League's direction since then. (I.e., other than that they've continued to transition away from satisfying players who aren't also e-sports consumers, even though this segment is the one that was growing fastest; I assume they thought that that was a matter of targeting, not of what people wanted in general).

During the time after I stopped spending money on League, I started playing DotA2. I hated it. I was okay with it. It started to be fun. I got past the community issues that DotA also suffered from at the time (which have improved; I can't be sure if it has in League, though). I like it more than league now. I bet HotS is fun, too.

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