we going to do anything for kog'maw?

NodirjonSattarov·Jan 16, 2017·3 votes·1,000 views

@riot do u guys really think he's in an okay place? hard to tell with low play rate lmao

45 Comments

ZelnickJan 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-16T06:41:27.179+0000)

@riot do u guys really think he's in an okay place? hard to tell with low play rate lmao

He's okay mid lane, ap.

NodirjonSattarovJan 16, 20172 votes

Riot doesn't want AP Kog to exist. I'm only talking about AD Kog'Maw. Tell me how good he is.

GeshultzJan 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T07:05:34.651+0000)

Riot doesn't want AP Kog to exist. I'm only talking about AD Kog'Maw. Tell me how good he is.

AD Kog is just a worst version of vayne at the moment.

ZelnickJan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

AD Kog is just a worst version of vayne at the moment.

No he's pretty decent because he has excessive range and cc in addition to percent damage, it makes it hard for tanks to defend against him like Corki.

NodirjonSattarovJan 16, 20172 votes

he has excessive range and cc? are you sure you're not talking about caitlyn?

ZelnickJan 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T07:28:59.381+0000)

he has excessive range and cc? are you sure you're not talking about caitlyn?

Caitlyn also has high range and cc, but she has a much stronger early game, and this is an early-game meta.

rtbf221651412Jan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Caitlyn also has high range and cc, but she has a much stronger early game, and this is an early-game meta.

What part of his auto's have good range?

ZelnickJan 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

What part of his auto's have good range?

Um the part where it says "For 8 seconds, Kog'Maw's basic attacks gain 130/150/170/190/210 range"

rtbf221651412Jan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Um the part where it says "For 8 seconds, Kog'Maw's basic attacks gain 130/150/170/190/210 range"

That isn't base range and has a 17 CD. His base range is 500. That is atrocious. That skill doesn't bandaide the problem.

ZelnickJan 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

That isn't base range and has a 17 CD. His base range is 500. That is atrocious. That skill doesn't bandaid the problem.

But it matters for when he wants to engage, and he is also more of a late-game champ. You can't have it all ways, every champ has to have some weakness.

rtbf221651412Jan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But it matters for when he wants to engage, and he is also more of a late-game champ. You can't have it all ways, every champ has to have some weakness.

Unless he is snared, stunned, frozen, and etc. Then that skill becomes even less than 8 seconds.

ZelnickJan 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Unless he is snared, stunned, frozen, and etc. Then that skill becomes even less than 8 seconds.

Which is true for every single adc in the game.

rtbf221651412Jan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Which is true for every single adc in the game.

Every adc has a range extention skill? What?

Are you on something?

ZelnickJan 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Every adc has a range extention skill? What?

Are you on something?

I don't know of any other adc that has a base range modifier except Jinx, Twitch (only his ult) and Tristana, what the hell are YOU on?

rtbf221651412Jan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't know of any other adc that has a base range modifier except_** Jinx, Twitch (only his ult) and Tristana**_, what the hell are YOU on?

{quoted}

Which is true for every single adc in the game.

You said it, not me.

ZelnickJan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You said it, not me.

Which is clearly abuse via strawman because I said every adc is useless when they become stunned or hard cc-ed. You're just petty because you know you lost the argument.

rtbf221651412Jan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Which is clearly abuse via strawman because I said every adc is useless when they become stunned or hard cc-ed. You're just petty because you know you lost the argument.

No, you said every adc then listed 3-4. That isn't a strawman. That is a fact.

NodirjonSattarovJan 16, 20171 votes

kog'maw doesn't have cc

ZelnickJan 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-16T08:11:43.479+0000)

kog'maw doesn't have cc

Not hard cc, but he has that thick line slow.

NodirjonSattarovJan 16, 20171 votes

it doesn't prevent anyone from engaging. the slow is negligible and so is the damage

ZelnickJan 16, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T08:23:05.521+0000)

it doesn't prevent anyone from engaging. the slow is negligible and so is the damage

How does a giant-ass slow not prevent people from engaging? I see it do nothing but do just that. And it isn't meant to deal damage unless you go ap.

NodirjonSattarovJan 16, 20171 votes

the slow is NEGLIGIBLE. It's maxed last and the slow wears off pretty quickly. Why would you build AP as a marksman? Have you played Kog'maw before?

ZelnickJan 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T08:27:32.074+0000)

the slow is NEGLIGIBLE. It's maxed last and the slow wears off pretty quickly. Why would you build AP as a marksman? Have you played Kog'maw before?

Because he has lots of range and scales from ap as well as ad. His slow is very effective, you just have to aim it to be as such.

NodirjonSattarovJan 16, 20171 votes

his only ability that scales with ad is his ult and it only scales with bonus ad which he doesn't build alot of

ZelnickJan 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T08:43:48.639+0000)

his only ability that scales with ad is his ult and it only scales with bonus ad which he doesn't build alot of

Which is intentional because he has the capacity to be a mage and it would be too much damage if all his abilities scaled from ad.

NodirjonSattarovJan 16, 20171 votes

sort of like jhin, vayne, caitlyn (3 abilities), ezreal (3 abilities), kalista (dmg abilities), lucian (3 abilities), corki, MF (3 abilities), jinx (3 abilities), draven

but god forbid kog'maw have decent ad scalings

SlazllJan 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-16T08:57:04.733+0000)

sort of like jhin, vayne, caitlyn (3 abilities), ezreal (3 abilities), kalista (dmg abilities), lucian (3 abilities), corki, MF (3 abilities), jinx (3 abilities), draven

but god forbid kog'maw have decent ad scalings

Corki doesn't scale off AD he scales off AS because he has percent health on his W and that's also why you build bork on him typically first item now he has no need for AD scaling he's the get 4 items W and melt ANYONE

SlazllJan 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Corki doesn't scale off AD he scales off AS because he has percent health on his W and that's also why you build bork on him typically first item now he has no need for AD scaling he's the get 4 items W and melt ANYONE

excuse me tired kog*

rtbf221651412Jan 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T08:27:32.074+0000)

the slow is NEGLIGIBLE. It's maxed last and the slow wears off pretty quickly. Why would you build AP as a marksman? Have you played Kog'maw before?

His slow isn't negligible, unless you think 52% for 4 seconds is bad with a large coverage. (Stand corrected at 1.25 but still)

VvVVvVJan 16, 20172 votes

Ziggs I dont know why anyone would build AP in the bot role KAPPA

ZelnickJan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I dont know why anyone would build AP in the bot role KAPPA

Because adcs exist for pushing towers and ziggs pushes towers better than adcs currently.

rtbf221651412Jan 16, 20171 votes

[deleted]

NodirjonSattarovJan 16, 20171 votes

did you even read the comment? its 52% at max rank but E is maxed last so it's 52% when you're level 18. additionally its 52% slow for 1 second + .25s persistent effect. the ooze lasts for 4 seconds. for how immobile kog'maw is, it really isn't enough.

rtbf221651412Jan 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-16T09:02:42.768+0000)

did you even read the comment? its 52% at max rank but E is maxed last so it's 52% when you're level 18. additionally its 52% slow for 1 second + .25s persistent effect. the ooze lasts for 4 seconds. for how immobile kog'maw is, it really isn't enough.

If your adc can't peel within an addition 1.25 seconds, then I can't say it's Kog'maws fault. If it was any longer, it would be kinda broken.

NodirjonSattarovJan 16, 20171 votes

I've had an autofilled support Malzahard and a blind Morgana support game today. Both really couldn't use their abilties properly.

RebonackJan 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Not hard cc, but he has that thick line slow.

If movespeed buffs aren't considered mobility, then slows aren't CC.

ZelnickJan 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If movespeed buffs aren't considered mobility, then slows aren't CC.

Riot (the creator of League of Legends) disagrees:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Crowd_control

"Soft CC: ... Slow"

RebonackJan 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No he's pretty decent because he has excessive range and cc in addition to percent damage, it makes it hard for tanks to defend against him like Corki.

He's 'okay' but he isn't a desirable pick. He can't really poke anymore with his new Ult, Vayne is just straight up a better tank-buster than he is, and a whole gaggle of champs are better early and mid game.

This is the problem Kog has had forever. The only time he's a desirable pick is when he's grossly over-tuned. He's not grossly over-tuned at the moment. He's got a solid mid game and his items of choice are all made of little bite-sized pieces, which helps a ton in the current four-man clusterfuck bottom meta. He can back and grab a longsword or a dagger if there's too much pressure and that's just fine.

What Kog needs is a function aside from doing lots of damage. Probably the most workable way to accomplish this would be making his kit revolve more heavily around his Q and the ability to resist-shred targets. Even if that requires nerfing his W damage. That would be preferable, really.

KotexJan 16, 20171 votes

Right now any late game hyper carry that isn't vayne--(solely because vayne is allowed to hit early and mid powerspikes as a late carry)--is in a terrible place. Kog, Trist, Kallista. The game right now is designed to snowball faster than these champions are designed to impact it without being spoonfed. Kog's ability to break the AS cap was his one saving identity that was removed putting him back in his terrible timeout corner where hes clearly outshined by every other better pick in the bot lane right now.

At this point i strongly believe riot just has no idea what to do with him so theyre hoping to ignore and avoid it for as long as they can because they just don't know what to do for him. Sort of like teemo, but their answer for teemo is "Just give him another skin"

NodirjonSattarovJan 16, 20171 votes

At this point i strongly believe riot just has no idea what to do with him so theyre hoping to ignore and avoid it for as long as they can

I hope to bring Kog'Maw to the light because for months I've been trying to push for changes. No one listens because he's just really, really bad. At least Teemo is decent toplane. But I do agree they can make changes to him.

SlazllJan 17, 20171 votes

I play fine on kog you just need to pick him into good lanes like if you have an engage or peel supp he does really well against draven use E to slow pr keep him from catching axes and W to poke/out range him before he can get off any autos

NodirjonSattarovJan 17, 20171 votes

I'm sorry but is 2 games on Kog'Maw in normals really your justification of the champion?

SlazllJan 17, 20171 votes

well I mean both were like S games just cause I don't play it often doesn't mean it's not good he just needs the right set up and not to be against hec or rengar

NodirjonSattarovJan 17, 20171 votes

play it in ranked consistently

SlazllJan 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-17T05:14:58.756+0000)

play it in ranked consistently

I could but the real issue that all adcs are in a bad state because of the state of the map and jungle http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/UA1YhFzw-adc-possible-fixs