Are Assassin Inherently Flawed?

TequilaZombie··35 votes·2,492 views

DISCLAIMER: Tried to make it shorter, but failed miserably and instead added an extra paragraph or two. There is a TL;DR by the end, of course.

So, I was just asked this question. I've been giving some thought to it for a few weeks and made a huge wall of text about it. It's pretty damn big, but I'd like to know what you guys think on the subject.

> Are assassins just inherently flawed as a concept?

If we look at the root of all MOBAs, before the WoW mod or WoW itself, we have the RPGs. 4 to 6 players would sit their asses around a table with some paper and lots of dices to roleplay their characters through a campaing made by en evil genious (a.k.a the GM, the Dungeon Master, the fucker who will make you afraid of attacking a couple of old people... sorry, I got carried away). Those characters would stick together to get through the challenges the GM had thought for them, using cunning, strategy, meta gaming, and even some rudimentar mechanics (seriously, look at the people discussing how to solo a Tarrasque). Sounds familiar?

There are 4 classes that are the core of a RPG party. You have a Tank to draw aggro, you have a Crowd Crontroler for CC and peel, a Healer for sustain, and a Damage Dealer for Sustained Damage. Things like Bards, Assassins, and Burst Mages are largely superfluous to a well functioning party. This 4 man party ensures a functioning Tank n' Spank playstyle, which is the fail proof method of advancing in a RPG.

In League, things change a bit due to the lack of aggro. Tanks are given the Crowd Controler role as well, so they can have an artificial aggro tool. The Crowd Controler is changed into a secondary Damage Dealer with more utility and a different type of damage. The healer and the Damage Dealer are still unchanged.

Then we get to Assassins. They are largely redundant in a PvE scenario for most of the time. They are too squishy to deal with front line aggro, and provide too little DPS to take down large mobs. However, they really shine when a moderately powerful enemy is around. They pack enough burst damage to take those targets down before they can become a real threat to the party. They are the ultimate Anti Damage Dealer class. Totally superfluous in an RPG, but fun to play and useful in their own way.

When we bring that to League, they still pack their RPG principle: take away a powerful target before it causes too much trouble for your team.

However, a team comp in League can't change equipments, prepare a dozen different spells, carry a few scrolls, and pack a few different amulets just in case. The parties in League are much less versatile, so having an Assassin instead of a core role is a big trade off. You either giving up on at least one of those Tankiness, or in AoE, or in Sustained Damage, or in Buffing Power and always giving up on Utility.

Assassins in League stay very true to their RPG counterparts. They go in, kill a target, hopefully get out, and then become useless. To balance their playstyle out, the targets they kill must be exponentially more useful than then. Not only that, but that target must also be a stronger member of the team than the one the assassin is replacing. This means that if the Assassin goes for the ADC, the ADC must be a stronger teamfighter than the Assassin AND a stronger team fighter than a Mage, because by picking the Assassin you gave up on a mage.

Assassins conceptually make the team fight a 4v4 instead of a 5v5, with the option of choosing who they are going to take away from it.

And this is were the problems begin.

If Mages are just as strong as ADCs, picking an Assassin will have no impact on a team fight. You kill the enemy ADC and blow all your CDs. Now the fight is between the enemy's Tank, Mage, Fighter, and Support vs your team's Tank, ADC, Fighter, and Support, making the balance between the two teams equal and your only contribution is making the game less enjoyable for the ADC.

On the other hand, if the ADCs are stronger than the Mages, there is no reason to pick a Mage instead of an Assassin. You kill the enemy ADC and blow all your CDs, being essentially useless. But now that the battle is between the enemy's Tank, Mage, Fighter, and Support vs your team's Tank, ADC, Fighter, and Support AND ADCs are stronger than Mages, your team has a lead and, technically, a free win.

This is what makes Assassins a hell to balance. They are not only balanced around themselves, but rather balanced around themselves AND the relation between the Damage Dealers. Not only that, they are balanced around taking away another player's impact on the game in a way that leaves little to no counterplay to their targets (but we will get to that by the end of the text).

In a PvE game, this is completely ok. In a PvP that has it's focus around being fun to play with and feeling fair to play against, this is not so ok.

Assassins are part of the whole "Which class is stronger right now" problem, but, as they are the most niche one, they are the first to get their asses kicked by the balance team.

If Riot insists that Assassins are the class supposed to "Get in, kill their targets, and GTFO", while trying to keep the "Everything is fair and mechanically counterplayable" design concept, they are never going to balance Assassins. They will either need to say "Ok, ADCs should sit besides the Tank or the Support at ALL TIMES and make the counter to Assassins being game knowledgeto prevent them from snowballing thus making Assassins a smaller threat in mid to late game (but still a pre 6.22 threat with full build) or they need to give Assassins something else to do other than 100-0 someone and jumping away.

The first will imply in what we had before: the Assassin will either be reliant on Game Knowledge mistakes to snowball, making them OP on low ELO and UP on high-ish ELO, or he will be able to kill people even when they are not alone, resulting in Zed levels of fun to play against.

The second, while objectively better, would take probably about a full year (or even more) to be created, tested, and balanced, so I doubt Riot will see it as a viable option.

"But wait, you made this fucking huge wall of text and didn't answered the question! Are Assassins flawed or not?"

To put it shortly (for once) it depends. As a concept, they are perfectly fine. You give up utility and AoE for the ability to take away one core player of the enemy team. While it has the whole Mages vs ADC problem going on, the champion diversity we have in LoL more than makes up for it.

Now, if you put them in the current context where EVERYTHING is bursting squishies, they aren't balanceable. Ironically, the current levels of burst is too high for Assassins to be healthy. As virtually every Damage Dealer can burst everyone who's not a full tank in 2 to 5 seconds, Assassins have to burst people even faster to be useful, or they are going to be bursted by their target. Ever engaged a Vayne as post-rework AD Shaco? You don't have over the top burst, so the Vayne will burst you. Ever engaged a Vayne as post-rework AP Shaco? You have some ridiculous burst, so you will burst her down before she can even Tumble away.

And this is the problem. By having everyone dealing so much damage so quickly, Riot has forced Assassins to deal damage even faster or be useless, which results in an unbalanceable state for the whole class.


TL;DR (because this fucking wall of text deserves one):

Assassins, in theory, are fine. What makes them unhealthy is the overloaded amounts of damage that everyone does in this game, making Assassins either kill things in the blink of an eye or be useless.


PS: This is the thread in which the question showed up, the OP puts a good point and there seems to be some nice discussion going on there: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/hBPVgf6G-assassins-stat-focus-flawed

58 Comments

ChaddyFantome13 votes

This was a wonderful read as a whole and i just want to make an aside and commend you for this. It was thoroughly enjoyable.

One thing though that I believe you failed to mention was a third option.

What if, assassins didn't have to give up a mage slot to be used?

I have personally always been of the opinion that assassins should and would be best balanced around being primarily junglers, as it would solve issues with snowballing, and make them more team oriented, on top of it just making the most sense thematically.

The jungle has always kind of been a blank slate for what "goes there" to begin with too, so you aren't really giving anythign up by putting them there unless you have a squishy toplaner.

TequilaZombie3 votes

Thanks man! And it's good to hear an opinion that's not "Riot has no idea what to do" or "Just pick Syndra and do the same".

Regarding the jungle, I do believe that it would be the best place to put Assassins. Actually, it would be a great place to put all of the niche classes so to speak. The Barbarians (melee glass cannons, aka Yi, Trynd), the Assassins, the Bards (secondary Supports like Nunu and Ivern) should likely all go there. But then, you're still giving up on a second Tank, who packs much more utility, but by this point it's a decent trade off, as you already have one.

In Smite, most Assassins are the junglers, due to the over the top roaming that junglers do there. Which seems to make the most sense.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

The only problem with assassin junglers is when they get to 100-0 you from fog of war because of their stealth mechanics. If stealth were reworked again then this might be a reasonable possibility.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

The only problem with assassin junglers is when they get to 100-0 you from fog of war because of their stealth mechanics. If stealth were reworked again then this might be a reasonable possibility.

Learn to ward? Pay attention to the map?

Run to tower when you see the big Eyes and sound effect that is indicated as soon as Rengar clicks R? I mean, Rengar is my most hated champ in the game, but christ.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Learn to ward?

Stealth mechanics. Read ffs.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Learn to ward. I'm a former Shaco main. What fucks Shaco completely are deep wards. If you ward the common spots (river bush, tribus, etc) he's gonna have an easy time. If you ward the entrances to his jungle or the middle of the river you can spot him going for you and adjust your playstyle when he comes.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

A good shaco knows where the wards are already, even if you ward in uncommon spots. Also he will have his sweeper so when he walks by the ward he wont be seen. Also you need some knowledge of where he is in order to be able to safely deep ward his jungle.

TequilaZombie2 votes

Unless the good Shaco has telepathic powers, he can't know where the wards are unless you keep warding the same place over and over again. Then he can look at the debris and easily avoid the next one. While deep warding the jungle is pretty effective, it's not necessary unless you're the mid laner.

XinCrin8 votes

Assassins are a good idea if the tanks didn't do as much as the assassins. Also, ADC's are somewhat bad right now so not too much of a point having an assassin.

Another thought I have is champions like Syndra ,Viktor ,Annie "assassinate" just as fast as traditional assassins.

ßurst2 votes

Even quicker with less effor of getting into the middle of the fight tbh

Ralanr5 votes

{quoted}

Assassins are a good idea if the tanks didn't do as much as the assassins. Also, ADC's are somewhat bad right now so not too much of a point having an assassin.

Another thought I have is champions like Syndra ,Viktor ,Annie "assassinate" just as fast as traditional assassins.

They don't. They just kill squishies because everything can kill squishies.

Assassins have more damage, but in this game all you need is "just enough" damage.

TequilaZombie1 votes

They just kill squishies because everything can kill squishies.

That's kinda the whole point of my thread. Or at least the big one. Too many classes are able to kill squishies with little to no problems, making assassins rather obsolete, as this is their only niche.

Ralanr1 votes

Good point. IMO I still believe it's because of how high damage has gotten across the board.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Well, the high damage across the board is what causes everyone to kill squishies, making assassins do what everyone else does, but without bringing anything else to the team.

Ralanr1 votes

So I guess we need to nerf damage across the board and lower minion resistances so that it doesn't fuck over farming?

TequilaZombie1 votes

Sounds good. Possibly too good to be true.

Supreme Senpai694 votes

Omg. I'm the one that asked you this question. I'M FAMOUS, GUYS. HOT PAGE BY PROXY.

TequilaZombie3 votes

Wait, I made to Hot? HOLY SHIT!

Supreme Senpai691 votes

-HI5S-

TequilaZombie4 votes

Screw Proxy Singed! Proxy Revan is the new meta!

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

why need assassins when you can stay away from melee range and kill squishies with a mage? I see no point. so far only the assassin rework produced weaker version of almost every assassin.

ChaddyFantome4 votes

{quoted}

why need assassins when you can stay away from melee range and kill squishies with a mage? I see no point. so far only the assassin rework produced weaker version of almost every assassin.

While i generally agree, i think the idea is as follows.

A mage, while essentially able to do an assassins job from safety with more overall utility and clear ETC, there is one thing assassins have that is better than them . you know, beyond just mobility.

Realistically, a primary target would be an ADC or opposing mage, who is at the back line. Mages don't have as easy a time getting at the back line as assassins do, and so they usually spend more time hitting the front line until they can get to then unless they can make a lucky pick due to bad positioning on the enemies front.

This means that by the time they get to them, the enemy back line damage dealers have likely done their jobs already by dealing damage to your teams front line as is.

An Assassin however ideally would remove the damage dealer before they could even get out a significant out of DPS into the fight.

This is called Target Selection.

An Assassin, with their mobility , has a better and easier time reaching the back line than a Mage does and thus can eliminate the threat faster and more directly than them.

At least this is what Riot seems to emphasis being the main strength of assassins over other classes.

Astôlfo1 votes

Mages have long range and/or AoE though. So it doesn't matter if the carry is in the back line when they just need to drop Tibbers/Syndra ult and nuke them anyways. Or in Lux's case, just blast their whole team at once with E/R.

Flanking is pointless when you get immediately shut down the moment you appear.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Like i said, i generally agree. What i was describing is the outline of which should be used as the ideal in choosing between one and the other, obv.

I'm a midlane/Support player I'm a Talon main, but it isn't Talon I'm spamming in ranked right now. There is a very good reason for that, lmao.

Astôlfo1 votes

If mages didn't outclass assassins at their own job without the risks, that would be nice.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

good ol' nep3une never change :P

Vesemir3 votes

Tbh i hate it when people cry about getting one shotted by Rengar or Kha'Zix. I mean they are assassins if you are alone you are supposed to die. Thats what they do..

Subject 52 votes

{quoted}

Tbh i hate it when people cry about getting one shotted by Rengar or Kha'Zix. I mean they are assassins if you are alone you are supposed to die. Thats what they do..

Except for the fact that: Kha can't kill you when you have a team around to protect you But Rengar just ults, kills you in 00000.1 second, then uses his W to get out of cc that might have hit him.

Vesemir2 votes

I agree on that part Kha being a lot healthier than Rengar but still a good support wont let anyone die to rengar

Titanium703 votes

Nice thread and I agree with you in most parts. However my conclusion might be a little different.

I consider Assassins as a Mobile Burst Class unhealthy to the Teambased game League is. The Core Idea of taking out an important target and than die or be useless will always lead to major problems in terms of gameplay, counterplay and fun.

However Assassins as the most mobile and gimmicky Class seems alot better to me. Assassins should be Tricksters. Setting up traps being a constant psychological factor. Their goal should be to seperate Teams like forcing the Supp to be close to the AD all the time.

Doing this without them being able to 100-0 in a sec is hard to do, but is alot more healthy than a Zed W Flash Ult through 4 people oneshotting his target and then blink back.

Champions like Kha, Shaco, LB, Talon are all looking into the right direction.


And yes the DMG-Creep is bonkers and is one keyfactor why a Trickster class cant work as effective at it could be.

One additional thought ChaddyFantome reminded me of: The fact that the Assassins (A lore wise sneaky class operating best from the shadows) are played at the MOST OPEN Lane in the entire game - Mid - always bothered me. I understand side lanes, because of bushes. But I actually expect them to be JGLs most and foremost. That's what fit their theme, but...

TequilaZombie2 votes

Champions like Kha, Shaco, LB, Talon are all looking into the right direction.

I honestly love the IDEAS behind those 3 champions kits. However I dislike the execution (except with Kha'Zix, he is on point).

Shaco is still doing the same thing as before, but now to one shot people he goes AP. I feel he is one of the champions with the biggest wasted potential with the whole trickster/trap master playstyle being a secondary gimmick to him rather than his core and falling behind to his OMFG100-0OHKOPLSNERF identity. I doubt Riot will ever be able to balance him around using boxes as long as they take 2 seconds to arm and are on a 14 seconds CD. I mean, a 3 box nest takes about 45 seconds to get ready and keeps you in place to set it up, making the location rather obvious. Not only that, but after making such a nest, the first box has only 15 seconds left. I truly believe that, once the damage creep has been solved, Riot should look into making the boxes the core of Shaco.

Talon has a similar problem. He's supposed to be the get in, do your combo, get out and repeat Assassin. Using the jungle walls as moviment tools. However the really long CD on the walls and the fact that once you go over one wall you can't go back in through it make his job of constantly engaging rather hard, not to say impossible.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

{quoted}

One additional thought ChaddyFantome reminded me of: The fact that the Assassins (A lore wise sneaky class operating best from the shadows) are played at the MOST OPEN Lane in the entire game - Mid - always bothered me. I understand side lanes, because of bushes. But I actually expect them to be JGLs most and foremost. That's what fit their theme, but...

Thanks for the shoutout! :) And i agree. funnily enough, before his rework some of the most fun i would have as Talon is playing him in the jungle, because I felt like he could essentially start doing his job sooner and help his team out more directly as opposed to goign mid, being useless for the first 6-9 levels of the game.

However, Talon simply wasn't effective in the jungle because his early game was garbage. But i would "make it work" anyway and I honestly believe it was the most fun time is had with him before his rework.

Talon's rework (which I love btw) along with the jungle changes make it to where he can actually jungle now (as pretty much any camp can) and it is also great, but i still feel he is designed and still is more effective in the mid lane, which is kind of a shame.

I feel the vast majority of balance issues regarding assassins would actually be, and if not be much easier to address, if they weren't so heavily tied to midlane and were made and balanced around the jungle.

  • Assassins wouldn't have to be balanced around having either weak early or lane games because their early would be tuned around the jungle as opposed to lane.
  • They wouldn't have to be so gated by level to keep them in line with Mages powerspikes.
  • Snowballing wouldn't have to be so much of a problem because they aren't gaining a lead simply by killing the opposing laner over and over and would have to make choices between farming, objectives and lane pressure.
  • They would contribute more to the team beyond just killing people by being of assistance with objective control.

A few weeks ago, there was a guy that described the success pattern of assassins and talked about how assassins have balance issue sin part due to them not having a partial success scenario (i.e they either 100% succeed or 100% fail) feast or famine in an attempt to kill a target.

However, as junglers, a partial success scenario does exist due the the nature of the laning phase. Even if a gank doesn't result in a kill, it does result in putting the enemy laners in an unfavorable position, which creates pressure that could lead to an objective or forcing a back.

It all just makes so much sense, lol.

Zydron3 votes

I would like to give riot the benefit of the doubt and say each class update is a step towards a bigger picture. Maybe when all the other class updates are done (Diving fighter, Vanguard, Marksman/Juggernauts again?) The assassin's will have better interactions with the rest of the game. This could also not happen, I don't know

TequilaZombie1 votes

I honestly hope so. I may even get back in the game by then.

RlP K0BE2 votes

I agree, there are other classes of champions that do Assassin's job much better without the worry of having to get out before dying too quickly. Champions like Poppy being a prime example. Assassins have to snowball otherwise they are absolutely useless. Which is fine imo but what is not fine are other classes doing their job easier and without as much consequences. It has come to the point where I am sad to see Zed on my team because I feel like he will most likely be useless because of all the bs he will have to go through to do his job.

Tribbles Foxfolk2 votes

{quoted}

(seriously, look at the people discussing how to solo a Tarrasque).

Not to derail the thread, but I actually did that with a legit no-3rd-party character. No joke. 3.5e Psionic Warrior, 2-Bladed Vorpal Sword (iirc in 3.5e, Vorpal would activate on a Critical Hit, not just a 20), put everything into Critical Hit (I got it to the point where it was like a 9-20 crit), and get some feats that give you free Psionic casting speed. I was getting like 8 natural attacks + 6 tentacle attacks from an Eldritch Form power. Chopped its leg off AND decapitated it, pretty much solo. (It had so much HP that we weren't gonna kill it with HP damage) It killed me ~3 times, but I used my free-action-cast feat and would outheal its damage, so it didn't ACTUALLY kill me. (it was 20d12+60 healing, I think)

Yeah...Those were good days.

Ahem Your thread is a good discussion on Assassins. I personally think Assassins are healthy for the game, as they provide direct counters to squishies that would not normally be easy to kill. However, Riot doesn't seem to know exactly what to do with them. (Maybe if they'd stop releasing champs for a bit, they could actually fix things :/ ) Rengar, Kha'Zix, Shaco, and Lee Sin (yes he counts) are running rampant in the jungle, dealing outrageous damage. This isn't the problem, but rather the fact all 4 are JUNGLERS. They snowball a game heavily, providing far too much pressure with only 2-3 kills.

TequilaZombie2 votes

I once made a troll character that THE kiting archer. He was so fucking fast that the Tarrasque could not reach him. I was used as a bait while my team set off a trap to take him down.

Why not have the whole party there to deal with him? Because our GM was pissed off with our cheese strategies, so he went for TPK. We cheesed his anti cheese idea.

You know what beats a Tarrasque? A meteor that levels an entire city. PS: Yes, I died.

Tribbles Foxfolk1 votes

{quoted}

I once made a troll character that THE kiting archer. He was so fucking fast that the Tarrasque could not reach him. I was used as a bait while my team set off a trap to take him down.

Why not have the whole party there to deal with him? Because our GM was pissed off with our cheese strategies, so he went for TPK. We cheesed his anti cheese idea.

You know what beats a Tarrasque? A meteor that levels an entire city. PS: Yes, I died.

These are the type of stories that make D&D amazing. Just dumb stuff like this, though my character came from malice rather than a troll build. 3 of our party members had been power-gaming and intentionally ignoring rules to be the strongest characters they could be, constantly trying to "win" D&D. Me and the DM both got fed up with it (Since me, him, and our OTHER 3 party members got sick of their bullshit) and we collaborated to make the most ridiculous character we could think of just to put them in their place.

Enter Black Dragoon, former Rogue, now Psionic Warrior. With a 2-Bladed Sword with both edges Vorpal, 9-20 crit, 8 natural attacks, and instant casting, he was literally the strongest character we had ever created and WOULD be created in our group, BAR NONE. I was so strong, I ended up THREATENING TO KILL ONE OF OUR PARTY MEMBERS because he tried to argue that I was cheating while he continued to use obscure 3rd-party books. (Which I wasn't cheating, because my character was built completely from 1st-party material. I just broke it.)

Yeah, I could have handled that much better, but I finally put him in his place and he doesn't try to argue with me on almost any rules to this day. (I'm kind of a Rules Lawyer, but I try to be the GOOD kind.)

TequilaZombie1 votes

I love putting bad players in their places. But as I'm usually the GM, I have a tendency of making dumb shit happen to power gamers. In one of my zombie RPGs in the wildwest, I killed one power gamer by dropping a fucking piano on top of his character. How? ACME traps, sort of.

I created what was an abandoned Saloon and talked to them out of the game about the history of the city they were in. As a side note, I told how the owner of the saloon was filthy rich and yet lived at his "office". The regular players didn't had a reason to go there, there was no food, water, or weapons there, neither they had an in-game reason to do so. However, that goddamnn powerplayer could not resist a big loot, so he created a bullshit reason based on OOC information to go there.

Certainly enough, there was a big safe located by the end of the room. The other players decided to guard the entrances against zombies and raiders (and I made 5 entrances to the building, just to make sure every player had to be away). Once he tried to lockpick the safe, even though he had no perks for it. I had him making a roll for perception. He succeded and heard a few cracking noises coming from upstairs. Then I made a few random rolls for his lockpick attempt. Then I made the ceiling break and a piano fall from the second floor right on top of him. As he failed his reflex roll, he died. I think it was my best metagamer kill.


My fast as fuck archer was mostly a troll build. I wanted to roleplay the biggest coward possible, so I made a deal with the GM that I could pick perks, skills, and feats from any classes without any restrictions as long as it was a cowardly one and I roleplayed it correctly. So I could not go into melee against higher level enemies, nor could I do it against more than 1 at a time, or just get into melee range of anything that seemed threatening. But I could pick executioning perks, so I ended up with a mix of a Ranger with an Assassin with, hear me out, an affinity for usign goblins as pets (aka distractions). It was the most hilarious and at the same time RP intensive build I've ever played.

The scene with the Tarrasque was actually quite dramatic, as I was the only one who could hold him back long enough for my team to set up the trap, yet I hated to be there on my own and knew I was going to die. However, we had agreed that I was going to be brought back to life by my team if possible, so Lunik, the coward agreed to man up for once in his life for the greater good. BUT the kicker is: my character was a bit of a dick to the party members. Always hogging on potions, running away instead of helping and the like, so my team decided to not ressurect me.


D&D is indeed amazing

cocacolalips2 votes

Burst is bad for pvp as a whole, it's bad for the gameplay from a player perspective and it's bad for the spectacle from a viewer perspective, the best pvp video games are fighting games and every match lasts several minutes with combos, counters, pauses and several rounds.

Assassins should be about tricks, mobility, deceiving opponents, with -small- quick bursts of damage or weakening conditions here and there to weaken targets over time, suffocate them and kill them, not bulldozer someone's health bar in half a second.

Riot understands that, hence the assassin rework, but like you said, we are beyond that point, the ambient damage is too damn high and everyone dies too fast, regardless of class, role or position.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Agreed 100%. When I first got into League (way back in Season 2), I started to main Shaco. His kit seemed to me the true kit of a trickster/trapmaster. Make people chase you into a box maze, slowly taking away their health until they are low enough for you to go in and kill them. But hey, why do that when you can just go in and one shot a person?

Lugg2 votes

Short answer is yes, they are flawed. You can't expect a champ to be fair when they can 100-0 you in one combo with little if any counterplay. LB is a great example. Because she is so safe, she should have to do at least 3 combos on you to kill you. Her playstyle should be one of wearing down opponents and then killing them. Her whole playstyle should be based around hit and run tactics.

The biggest problem in the game as a whole is that mobility really isn't taken into account at all when balancing champs. The more mobile you are, the less burst you should have. Another great example is Ekko. He is probably the safest champ in the game but he can one/two shot half the roster.

Ultimate Deadpoo2 votes

As a Rengar main I feel I must comment on this.

Assassins themselves are pretty balanced, the high burst combined with the need to get in close to deal damage means that you have to time your engage carefully, lurking on the side and waiting for the moment when someone is left without a CC ability and slightly separated from the rest and are a squishy target. Do this right, and cleaning up is easy, do it wrong and you are screwed.

What makes an assassin broken or useless is a combination of the enemy team not peeling for their carries, poor warding and map awareness along with a smart player at the controls of the assassin. If the enemy can do those things, it makes life difficult but not impossible for the assassin. If your team refuses to keep engaged when you go in, that can screw you over, along with just missing opportunities to go in.

Basically, it's the fact that if you aren't smart when there is an assassin, especially if you are the assassin, your gonna get burned.

Meep Man1 votes

These days in DnD, Mages are damn near mandatory actually.

Lovelle1 votes

You might as well bring up bruisers too if you're going to criticize assassins, as balance-wise, bruisers are far more problematic. They have pretty much the same job as assassins, but they get to build defensively while doing it. Bruisers pretty much outclass assassins now, thanks to recent rework to give them more windows to be countered.

Why play Rengar, Kha'zix, or Talon when you can play Jarvan, Wukong, Camille or Vi and do the exact same thing, while also providing utility for your team? Bruisers also can outduel both assassins and tanks.

One of the major problems with assassins on maps like SR/TT/Howling Abyss is that the modes reward attrition-based gameplay, and champs that accommodate the push to the nexus will always have the advantage. In contrast, on maps like Dominion and Ascension, where towers don't exist, assassins are generally the best picks, with ADCs being the weakest by far. On those maps, you can win most games without really fighting anyone, the indirect stealthy/mobile approach is the best. Once towers are removed from the equation, assassins work fine as a class, but as long as the main game modes center around tower pushing to the nexus, assassins will always be a flimsy class when it comes to balance.

TequilaZombie2 votes

I was mostly talkin about their concept. Fighters (or Bruisers in League) are pretty much ok, although they currently suffer from the same problem of having too much damage going all around.

Lovelle2 votes

{quoted}

I was mostly talkin about their concept. Fighters (or Bruisers in League) are pretty much ok, although they currently suffer from the same problem of having too much damage going all around.

Personally, I think mages are a bigger problem right now than both combined, specifically utility mages. If they're going to have a wealth of CC, then they need to lose the instagib potential they currently have. I'm seeing "supports" kill carries by themselves, on a regular basis, which is not okay.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

Good read. I'll add that it's also kinda a problem that they're designed to make a game a 4v4 when that means somebody else doesn't really get to play. In RTS games where you can fart out endless units it doesn't get less fun when some get assassinated, but Riot has a harder time because assassins are supposed to send people to a gray screen.

JRobin311 votes

The idea of an assassin is not inherently flawed, but the idea that all assassins have to kill faster than other champions is flawed. By definition an assassin is "a murderer of an important person in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons". By definition to gank means to "use underhand means to defeat or kill". Thus, all ganking junglers practically become assassins.

But as a class in video games assassins are more commonly defined as "specializing in single combat and stealth skills, often combined in order to defeat an opponent without exposing the assassin to counter attack". Thus all ganking junglers are assassins: they show up from fog of war to surprise a single target and eliminate it (ideally without being exposed to counter attack).

The problem you talk about in your wall of text concerns the question of a 5v5 teamfight... which is simply not a 1v1 scenario. When you start the discussion on a flawed premise, the conclusion will be flawed. It is not the role of assassin to isolate a target and therefore is not the role of a assassin to walk into a 5v5 teamfight and kill someone. Proper assassination uses death by surprise attack. Anyone who sees an assassin coming should be able to out play because the assassin class is predicated upon surprise attack.

But you might say that anyone can do what an assassin does! But that's not really true. The classification of assassin has more to do with how their kits enable them to take opponents by surprise, not with the fact that anyone can wait in a bush and then pop out and kill someone. Being an assassin isn't about killing enemies faster than a burst mage can...

You might say that some champions have stealth in their kits but aren't assassins - like Vayne. She can stealth but isn't considered an assassin. Well, I say it doesn't matter what game designers at RIOT say a champion is supposed to be. If a champion has stealth in their kit that they use to deliver surprise attacks against a single target, then the champion is an assassin. Saying that you have to kill things faster than a burst mage to be an assassin is just a fundamental misconception about what an assassin actually is.

BastionKross1 votes

What makes them unhealthy is the overloaded amounts of damage that everyone does in this game, making Assassins either kill things in the blink of an eye or be useless.

I would reach a different conclusion. If we assume the theory behind the assassin playstyle in League is to

"Get in, kill their targets, and GTFO"

then I would consider that to be the flaw instead.

That playstyle is inherently steered toward taking agency away from the opponent by having an assassin's kit designed specifically to infiltrate, murder, and retreat successfully. That's almost all they're designed to do, so they have to do it well.

Sort of like Tryndamere and splitpushing. A 1/9 Trynd is still going to be able to splitpush like a god, because that's all he can do. So naturally he has to be able to do it under almost any circumstance. This is not healthy, as stated by both players and Rioters.

Assassins, especially before the class update, were very much like this. They had abilities that could get you in, kill a priority target very quickly, and then let you escape with very little room for counterplay. A lot of the time, it was on the assassin to screw up his combo or timings to result in a fail, and not the reactions of the enemy team witnessing their ADC blow up in a quarter of a second and then try to get a revenge kill on a Fizz or LB who frequently just hopped right back to the safety of their team for a 4v4.5 teamfight.

Riot attempted to fix this by artificially adding counterplay. They slowed down the time it takes to actually murder things, making assassins worse at killing targets than burst mages or fighters. The difference is that the burst mage and the fighter generally can't get out easily or avoid retribution once they've killed someone. Assassins have less risk because they have those "get out of jail free" abilities if things go south, so it makes sense for them to be less reliable in actually killing things from a game balance perspective.

Unfortunately, reliability is what this game is based on. If you have a tank that can only tank sometimes, or a marksman who can only DPS sometimes, or a healer that can only heal sometimes, then they're going to be abandoned for champs that do those things all or most of the time instead. This is more pronounced at high levels of play, and especially the pro level, where pro picks are pro picks because they just get the job done. That's part of why LeeSin is so beloved by pro players, he is a very reliable champion that doesn't allow a lot of wiggle room for his opponents if played well. He gets the job done.

In summary, as long as assassins are given the tools to do all three of infiltrate, assassinate, and escape, they'll have that artificial counterplay of delayed damage. That's the only way that that playstyle has any counterplay at all. If you have an assassin that can't get in so well, or that has no escapes or survival mechanics, then they can be allowed to burst down targets in a tiny amount of time like they used to. Because then, they have the risk of getting counterplayed.

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