Isn't making every AD based champion with 800 gold her counter kind of harsh? 
. With Grievous wounds applied to all healing again can we have her ult remove grievous wounds once more? It would be nice if it prevented grievous wounds for a short time too but I will take what I can get.
and 
are going to be far too oppressive to her.
yukumari6 votesThey actually just nerfed her on the PBE as well. Her Healing ratio went up to .15 from .1, but they nerfed the base heal to 12/13/14/15/16 from 14/16/18/20/22
They also lowered the speed bonus for hitting champs from 15% to 10%
I mean I get that people were complaining about Soraka, but at this point it's easier to just play Sona, since she can heal for her team without having to risk giving the enemy team 300 gold for doing so.
SithesisLord5 votesAnd Sona's poke is actually worth something.
Ulquiorra9951 votesLower move speed I can live with. She shouldn't have had it in the first place - she shouldn't have defensive options outside of Equinox, saying that as a Soraka player. But this healing reduction? I think she just took over Sona's title for the least rewarding spell effect to level up. 1 HP/second each level? They are goddamn crazy.
And really? Double nerf again? Give every AD champion the ability to heavily counter her with a 800 gold purchase isn't enough so a direct nerf is in order too? Oh, well, she is not Zed, so there is no "wait and see how item changes work out" treatment.
CasterGilgamesh4 votesDon't bother waist your breath the community doesn't care about logic or how others enjoy the game they only want what they like but I swear I'll never give up on soraka not even if she becomes trash tier all over again!!!Soraka mains Unite!!!!
StoryDuck2 votesI see your point. The funny thing is that if it was a non-top tier champion they would rage with me but since Soraka became top tier they just over react and want her to be used as much as Urgot (then they will rant to buff her). I've been a raka main since season 4. I played her when she still gave mana (ah fun times in top) and have stuck with her through it all. It seems that everyone forgot that it was the change to Grievous wounds that made her OP in the first place (mainly because an 800 gold item could counter her). Nerfing her on top of putting back in place a mechanic that shuts her healing down just brings her to trash instead of balance but people would rather be afraid instead of intelligent. Unfortunately, this nerf will kill me as a Raka main because it is far too easy to itemize against her. If they put back the ult cleansing GW I will happily take her back up but it's just too much for me at this time. I don't want to be reduced to just knowing when to time my E.
IAMS4T4N3 votesdeserved
CinnaBon Kittenz3 votesSORAKA WILL CRUSH ALL HUMANS! (One of these Days)
StoryDuck1 votesI keep hoping.
Quepha3 votesGrievous Wounds is not meant to be the be-all end-all solution to Soraka's balance. They will make adjustments to Soraka and/or Grievous Wounds if it turns out to be too binary of an interaction. She may be below-average for a patch or two but probably not by a wide margin and trying to do compensation buffs ahead of the curve has not turned out well for Riot in the past. For example, consider recently when Riot tried to make adjustments to a champion by the name as Soraka to make her more interactive, and increased her potential healing output to make sure she wasn't overnerfed, causing her to be even more overbearing in lane simply by landing a couple Starcalls.
Also, you're overstating how hard a counter executioner's calling is, that item and mortal reminder are truly terrible for adcs and sets them behind an opponent with an equivalent gold total and different build by a wide margin. It really hurts when an adc feels they're forced to buy it and if Soraka basically sets the enemy adc behind 800 gold just by existing then she should feel pretty proud of herself.
StoryDuck2 votesWooh, logic. Sorry I need a moment. So rare to see people not just "OMG WTF I hate Soraka". Up vote just for that!
That's actually a valid point. You can set a champion behind just by existing if they are that scared of Soraka. That is a small window in the game though and can only be taken advantage of in the early laning phase. There is still the problem of her teamfights though. Without healing she is super weak and brings very little to teamfights. Being able to cast AoE AD abilities (not AAs) to apply Grievous wounds for 3 or 5 seconds is crazy. Her ult is no more powerful then Karma R + E but on a much longer CD, is it too much to ask for it's full effect? You have to wait until your team has already taken damage to use it meaning her kit is designed around allowing her team to already have GW applied.
Quepha2 votesWooh, logic. Sorry I need a moment. So rare to see people not just "OMG WTF I hate Soraka". Up vote just for that!
That's actually a valid point. You can set a champion behind just by existing if they are that scared of Soraka. That is a small window in the game though and can only be taken advantage of in the early laning phase. There is still the problem of her teamfights though. Without healing she is super weak and brings very little to teamfights. Being able to cast AoE AD abilities (not AAs) to apply Grievous wounds for 3 or 5 seconds is crazy. Her ult is no more powerful then Karma R + E but on a much longer CD, is it too much to ask for it's full effect? You have to wait until your team has already taken damage to use it meaning her kit is designed around allowing her team to already have GW applied.
Mortal Reminder's terribleness lasts well into the late game. Executioner's calling's upgrade is almost 30% more than a long sword for 50% of a long sword's AD to get the passive when in comparison you would be looking at almost a zeal which has great combat stats and a movespeed passive you really want. The Mortal reminder upgrade is probably the worst part of the item as you pay 600 gold for zero AD, 200 gold's worth of armor penetration (when the base price for % bonus armor pen is already of dubious quality), and a negligible upgrade to the GW passive. You're basically dumping 400 gold just to free up an item slot which is nightmarish even in the late game.
StoryDuck2 votesI don't want to go into specific numbers and stuff but is not a whole lot worse then 
when targeting squishy targets. You make a fair case that Soraka would still be a good pick in a tank heavy team forcing the opponents to get . However, you also forget 
which is a key item on many AP champions. Soraka has built into her ult a clause that her allies need to be below 40% health to get a +50% heal and I can tell you from experience that without that extra heal her ult is very very weak to the point of near uselessness (the horrors of bad Raka ults...shudders). Removing grievous wounds (just for her ult) allowed her ultimate to be impactful. Is it really that game breaking for Soraka to get the full effect from her ult?
Quepha1 votesIs it really that game breaking for Soraka to get the full effect from her ult?
Not that interaction specifically, but Soraka overall might still be in a really strong spot and not deserve having extra power tacked onto her kit.
Specifcally, the new Athene's is something that Riot is using to justify nerfs to the healing on Soraka's Q as it seems like a must-buy on her and basically adds all that healing from landing a Q right back onto her kit.
StoryDuck2 votesI must admit I am curious about the Ahtene's changes but since it needs to build up charges via dealing damage I don't think Soraka would benefit much from it. It seems amazing for Karma, Lulu, nami and Sona though.
Quepha1 votesI must admit I am curious about the Ahtene's changes but since it needs to build up charges via dealing damage I don't think Soraka would benefit much from it. It seems amazing for Karma, Lulu, nami and Sona though.
Soraka doesn't deal a lot of damage, but her Q's and E's aren't totally awful and she heals so often that there's no chance she will waste charges.
Sightless661 votesher Q's and E's aren't totally awful and she heals so often that there's no chance she will waste charges.
I've been using the item on the PBE, and wasting significant amounts of charges isn't really a realistic concern on any support (except maybe Lulu, if you're into that). It's way more gated by your damage output than by your number of heals and shields. Honestly, I think it's a mediocre Soraka item, and I don't expect her to purchase it commonly. I don't think this is a realistic concern on Riot's part.
StoryDuck1 votesI would have to agree. Her Q can be dodged (easily by Kalista/Lucian/MF/Caitlyn/Ezreal) and her E has a very long CD. Considering she can sustain up after any fight Athene's changes don't hold a lot of value to her. Sigh....just time to find a new main, at least until people see she is unplayable guess I'll just have to wait a patch or two after her play rate drops to 0.01%. I can't believe they did another round of nerfs on her and reduces her Q slow too, now she has very little CC and easily countered healing.
Sightless661 votestrying to do compensation buffs ahead of the curve has not turned out well for Riot in the past.
Just for the record, neither has changing champions and items together in the same patch.
Also, you're overstating how hard a counter executioner's calling is, that item and mortal reminder are truly terrible for adcs
They're terrible in lane. Outside of it, it's not a big cost to pick one up. It's definitely more of a feel-good moment for the ADC to reduce the value of someone's kit by almost 40% with an 800 gold purchase.
Amélie Cauchemar3 votesSo, why do you get to complain about Grievous wounds when 
Invalidates roughly 90% of the champion roster of this game?
Soraka W: Invalidates bruisers and burst champs + poke comps + siege comps. Because she puts them on a 1 second timer. IF they fail at instantly 100-0ing someone ((Mind you they're doing this through a silence + exhaust + raka ult + usually adc heal too boot)) Then they fail, and all their stuff is on cool down and will usually die shortly after and ultimately lose the game
Soraka E: Invalidates mobility champs, invalidates 
completely 100% ((her silence acts as a stun)), Invalidates stationary champs that are ability reliant, invalidates a lot of carries like 
, invalidates most mages. Honestly one of the biggest sleeper abilities Soraka has is in fact her E because it's an AOE silence that is stronger than Cho'gaths, arguably the strongest silence ever to be invented and it can 100% win team fights on its own.
As far as I'm concerned. Until you lose your silence you can fuck off. I'm sick of fighting that fucking champion, and sick of constantly seeing her face whether it be on the ban list, or on the enemy team.
StoryDuck4 votesTell me. How much trouble did you have with her before Grievous wounds was changed to only affect self heals? The answer....none. Everything you have pointed out can be replicated by another champion. Soraka is just better at sustain is all. When you lose a teamfight you not only lose but also have to face the fact that the enemy team will heal up to push an objective as well. Karma can R+E a target and save an ally from Bruisers and burst champs just as well (if not better) as Soraka R + W. The only difference is that Krama cannot heal them after making it harder to take an objective after. Poppy can stop mobility as well and honestly, there needs to be more options besides stunning to stop mobility. Tell me, why should Soraka not get the full effect of her ultimate? What is the point of getting 50% more heal when allies are below 40% health when grievous wounds would obviously be applied to all of them? Will that really break her game play? Have you thought about it at all or are you just on the hype train?
Amélie Cauchemar1 votesTell me. How much trouble did you have with her before Grievous wounds was changed to only affect self heals? The answer....none. Everything you have pointed out can be replicated by another champion. Soraka is just better at sustain is all. When you lose a teamfight you not only lose but also have to face the fact that the enemy team will heal up to push an objective as well. Karma can R+E a target and save an ally from Bruisers and burst champs just as well (if not better) as Soraka R + W. The only difference is that Krama cannot heal them after making it harder to take an objective after. Poppy can stop mobility as well and honestly, there needs to be more options besides stunning to stop mobility. Tell me, why should Soraka not get the full effect of her ultimate? What is the point of getting 50% more heal when allies are below 40% health when grievous wounds would obviously be applied to all of them? Will that really break her game play? Have you thought about it at all or are you just on the hype train?
The answer is a lot because even with the grievous wound change the only person even able to viably win against her is an enemy mid with Morellos, and that required the mid laner to specifically be an AP mid laner which actually wasn't all that common.
Also no, what I have pointed out cannot be replicated because Soraka is the only champ with an AoE silence attached to a spammable heal + a global heal. In fact, the only other champ with a silence out there atm is 
. I don't count blitz because his is more of a "disruption" than it is an actual "silence."
also no. 
can shield, and maybe "snare." But that's it. Soraka can throw an E down and invalidate that champion while spam healing the ally back to full. Poppy can only stop mobility one time. It's a one trick wonder ability, but guess what. It also doesn't "SILENCE" the people in the zone too.
You also act like is the be all end all buy when in reality it sets you back 800 gold to "maybe" win against a Soraka lane that can just as easily be camped to death while the other ADC blazes off to glory with their 
and beats the adc that bought because now the stat difference is too large for the shitty ass heal debuff to even matter.
I also say this as a former Soraka abuser. She's a stupid champion with way too much power packed into simplicity.
StoryDuck2 votesHonestly, when the ADC starts critting with 200+ AD and IE Soraka W heals are not really a factor at this point. I would also like to point out that buying MS items (very common on carries) makes her E very difficult to use unless in tandem with other CC...that is called a Combo. You get the same Effect in mass with Amumu and Malphite, or Orianna and Yasuo. Look, all I'm asking for is the full effect of her ultimate. If you have a problem with the AD items then just take a look at which passive kicks in at enemies below 40% health. Soraka's ultimate is extremely weak (almost useless) without the extra 50% heal but can only be obtained once allies are below 40% health. Morello is a very common item for AP champions and not weak at all. I get that you have issues with silences but you can't think that getting the full effect of her ultimate is game breaking.
Partholonian3 votesWhen has Soraka been very strong? When people overcommitted to fights they couldn't finish because they thought she was 100% ignorable?
But, of course, damage dealers shouldn't be punished for things like that; Riot should hold their hands and nerf anyone who can stop their perfectly planned zero counterplay 100-0 and turn it into a mere 100-10. It's just not fair for risky plays to fail sometimes, right?
Krys Star3 votesI welcome the changes. I had to deal with GW season 1-4, before Wish removed GW in 5. It was a nice luxury, but GW wasn't easily accessible either. Now, though, ad champs have easy access to GW, and Morellonomicon is being buffed to apply GW for 8s up from 4s. Not to mention Soraka's Starcall slows at 30% at all ranks down from 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50%, Rejuvenation grants 10% movement speed down from 15%, Rejuvenation no longer refreshes Windspeaker Blessing (which is nbd really, it was too strong applying it constantly).
Once 6.9 ships, Soraka's going to be in a horrible state, which will please 90% of the community, I guess. But the rest, and Soraka mains, will just feel the stress of her changes on top of dealing with GW. Wish has to remove GW. It needs to, if Soraka's going to survive against GW. I've been playing Soraka frequently on the pbe, and the GW changes hurt. I've had way too many close calls of my allies dying, because of GW weakening my heals (as it should), and weakening Wish.
Literally all she needs: Wish removes Grievous Wounds, and grants immunity to GW for 3 / 4 / 5s based on rank. I don't care about the other changes, but nerfing her without the compensation she needs most is awful balancing.
StoryDuck3 votesIf she just removed GW for just her ult that would be enough. For some reason people think that its OP though. The Riot nerfs are WAY over the top right now though.
ModAzure Ole2 votesHallelujah
Billy VoHagen2 votesI agree, so these items won't opress Soraka, they should remove Soraka from the game.
StoryDuck3 votesSo...let me get this straight. You think that her ult (on a 160 / 145 / 130 CD) removing one instance of Grievous Wounds when all AD damage applies it will keep her in the OP champion status?
Billy VoHagen3 votesNo, they should just remove Soraka from the game.
StoryDuck4 votesThat's very sad. I'm sorry you cannot handle a crippled champion in the game. I would suggest you take up a different game if this one is so difficult. HoTS is made by Blizzard and has a pretty active community maybe you should try that? You don't have to worry about items and you automatically level-up with your team! It is just so easy, you might just enjoy it.
Billy VoHagen2 votesIt's not that Soraka is op right now, but she makes the game unfun. If you want to do anything, she just reverts whatever you do by spamming W.
Also, HoTS sucks dick in all ways except for some cool heroes.
StoryDuck2 votesHench, Grievous wounds and playing around her ultimate but I understand that it is too hard for you. I agree that HoTS is not a very good game (It can have some good moments though) but I felt the ease of play would appeal to you.
Billy VoHagen1 votesOk, you're just ignoring what I'm saying. I'll just leave it here.
MunchCrunchLunch2 votesshe deserves it and more hopefully.
Ragaren1 votesSoraka doesn't need a nerf, it's the mastery page and items that need to be changed. I'm seeing a draven with warlords blood lust, 
and 
heal 300 health with his axes. ADC's this meta have too much healing, they were meant to be a glass cannon, but now with this season the glass cannon is repairing too fast for dmg sustain champions.
gets blamed simply because her heals combined with their lifesteal makes them nearly invincible unless they move way out of position or fight a group of assassins.
ZeeWolfZ1 votes SORAKA
Is Brainless, no penalty, no skill, high reward champion. She has been Top 3 (Currently #1 @ 55% win rate) Most OP support. She heals the target for a ridiculous amount every 1.5 seconds and has a Global ALL heal with a press of a button. They have already nerfed her 4 times and NONE of it affected her, if anything, she is stronger now. How? Just Soraka things.
No AD in their right mind rushes . They just don't. There are priority items they need to build and MAYBE 4rth Grieving Wounds item.
There are NO REASONS to complain about Soraka. She is overpowered out of her mind.
Just High Elo 2 cents on this.
OhZenny1 votes~~Grievous Wounds only affect self-heals so healing others won't be affected. ~~
(I think)
Edit: I didn't now GW were going back to normal NVM
Sightless661 votesThat is what is being changed. It is going back to affecting all healing. And Soraka is being nerfed.
ZT Xperimentor1 votesYeah mages have been shafted pretty much for the past year. The overhaul is supposed to fix it, but spoiler-warning, don't get your hopes up.
Zonkman1 votesLets be honest, no ones going to buy that even when they make the changes to grievous wounds, no one built it when mundo was a free win they wont build it now either.
Over Innsmouth1 votesSo self-healers who're entirely reliant on their own stuff working getting countered by 800g is fine, but when Soraka gets the stick after being dominant for ages all hell breaks loose?
In all honesty though, very few adcs will be willing to cough up 800g that could be used towards their IE, ER, BotRK, Runaans, etc... towards countering Soraka in lane. Sure she'll get dicked late game, but before then she'll be the same obnoxious heal bot that she is now.
StoryDuck1 votesActually, I've felt the changes to GW was a good move but Soraka needs tools to stay relevant and removing GW was something she had before that they removed when GW was changed. Make no mistake, I think Soraka needs some nerfs but honestly...all they needed to do was revert GW changes and her ult. I would also like to point out that Soraka is a late game scaling champion....kinda stupid to have her so easily countered in late game.
Shadow Gilgamesh1 votesI wouldn't worry about it TBH. 
was the king of the game for like 3 patches because no one fuckin ever bought
Though they should really cool it with the nerf train they have running on her till after the GW changes.
Solidair31 votesThe fact of the matter is that through multiple nerfs, Soraka remains on top in terms of support win rates. She's unstoppable as she is. And it is ridiculous. Grievous wounds absolutely needs to be global again.
I don't know that she needs the extra nerfs they've thrown on her, but I'm tired of dealing with her. If she had to actually engage her enemy, then sure, this would be fine. If they over-nerf her, then they can buff her again. And that would be great, maybe she can be non-oppressive for once. But until we know for a fact that she's too strong, we can deal.
I'm just so tired of wasting a ban on her.
Baby Ghoul1 votesI can't stand Grievous Wounds.
It's sloppy design wise. I question anyone who thinks that it should be included in the game. I can't believe that more people aren't annoyed by that change on the PBE.
I would think since Riot has taken a stand against auras, that they would do the same with such an outdated and bad gameplay aspect. Instead it looks like they're expanding it by changing that.
I wouldn't worry too much about ADCs who buy . Not many ADCs will be salty enough to buy it during the laning phase since the majority of champions cannot sacrifice their damage. Some will, and most of them will suffer because of it.
The real problem will be the assassin mages mid game. Landing your E's at the right time will be absolutely crucial now, which isn't bad, but the nerfs on top of it are going to really hit Soraka hard.
The reason people are picking Soraka and Taric is because they have something over the majority of supports in low ELO. That's also why people hate them. They're just better than most supports currently, and it makes the game unfair. This community doesn't value supports. It's difficult to make meaningful plays on other supports if you don't have teammates who know the basics, and low ELO encompasses over 70% of the player base. There's a big difference between how the games are played between the different leagues.
I agree that Soraka is too good right now, but there isn't much variety in the support role for ranked.
Only a few supports can influence the game heavily without having to become less effective damage dealers. They don't need to build selfishly or forsake map control. That's really unique in low ELO, and really Riot should be looking at all of the supports and make them stronger.
The only other supports I can think of are Blitzcrank because he's cheesy and toxic, and Janna/Lulu. That's such a small pool for a role that's required every game. Where's the great variety?
Every support should be able to make that kind of game changing impact on their own without having to jump through hoops. Playing support feels like bending over backwards to accomplish something that other roles achieve much easier this season. The support role is just clunky this season. It will always be the least popular role, but it should not be this unpopular.
I feel like I'll be looking for two new roles to main for the rest of the season though. I befriended so many support mains on my climb to Gold last season, and almost all of them have switched roles for season 6. The few that are left only play Soraka, Taric, Alistar and Blitzcrank. The ones that are in Platinum and Diamond almost exclusively play Janna, Lulu, and Soraka with a few strategic situational picks here and there.
There needs to be a meaningful support update, and the support role needs to break free from their ADC chains. At the very least they should fix level issues most supports experience. I can deal with less gold, but being 3 levels behind a feeding Shen, when I've been involved in all the kills and objectives, is just depressing.
Sorry I went into a little rant. The overboard Soraka nerfs on the PBE just triggered something inside of me that I've been feeling this whole season. I know not everyone may agree, but as a support main it's a feeling I have trouble shaking.
Nekusen1 votesi think it conditions her a bit: making her focus her heals outside of combat. making enemies build GW even though they might be lanning vs champs with no regen, putting them behind.
