Balancing Auto Attack Champs and Support Items

woodvsmurph··2 votes·412 views

So people have posted a lot about how broken tanks are and how broken adc's and/or support items are. I have a few thoughts on the issue.

Support items: In the vid above, a fairly high elo adc main talks about how the gold efficiency of ardent censer is extremely high compared to most items in the game and how this has lead to the item being "broken" or "op". If an adc main can admit just how stupidly strong a support item is that buffs primarily adc's (and yi - in Chinese boosting strategy) and back it up with solid data, then we know it is op. And this is just one item. Now factor in that each additional heal/shield item adds further buffs to the overall effect making it greater than the sum of the individual effects of each heal/shield item added together and we begin to see an issue. Adc's primarily (although other aa champs can make nearly equal use of this) are simply being made to ignore too much burst damage - damage that in seasons past would 100% have killed them. And this doesn't even take into account adc items that make them more durable on their own.

My proposal would one of the two following options. First, we could nerf the items to a more reasonable level as many would suggest. This works for now, until new patches occur and new synergies are gained or lost with said items and they become op or underpowered again. Option two would be similar to how renekton applies lifesteal with his q. Renekton heals the same amount from an enemy champ via his q whether they have 5 armor or 500 armor - not like normal lifesteal. How does this apply to heal/shield support items? Adjust their passives so that their buffs give healing and flat ad or ap (adaptive depending on the champ - as the new masteries are going to be) instead of attack speed and on-hit effects. Doing this or some similar change would make the healing/shielding more equally favorable to aa champs and spell casters alike. Malz, cass, zed, renekton, riven, etc. don't care so much about attack speed, but they wouldn't mind getting some temporary ad/ap buff from a heal/shield and neither would an adc or aa melee like yi. This kind of change would make such items more balanced towards all champs rather than force such an adc-centric playstyle. I don't dislike adc's, but they should not play a bigger factor than a carry toplaner or midlaner just because items synergize with and buff them better than other champs - allowing them to carry harder even if they don't have the same skill level as the fed mid or top on the other team.

Adc's: Mostly I would leave adc's at their current power level until we saw the effects of rebalancing support items like I describe above. Some might need buffs or nerfs after the changes. A few things I would consider looking into though would be: Reduce cait traps to a max of 4 and/or put a lockout timer so she can't force you to tank 2 traps (by placing one in front of a trapped target) in order to break through her trap line at a tower. Balance draven so that he doesn't have a guaranteed win in aa trades in the early game and balance that out by maybe improving his scaling if that leaves him feeling a bit underpowered. Look into giving sivir a passive on her spellshield to bring her back up to parity with other champs.

Tanks: So everyone knows maokai and cho'gath are op right now right? I've heard everything from cho is fine (not bad, but not above par) to cho is impossible to kill. Personally, I would argue much of this changes with elo. If you play in a game where your jungle doesn't gank and your teammates (and you too probably) never roam during laning phase, then yeah they are going to seem pretty damn strong. Climb to higher elos and/or introduce more ganking and they will seem less so. Maokai is decent 1v1 in laning phase against most enemies; doing enough base damage and having enough innate tankiness to survive and discourage all-ins. At higher elo, he can farm fine by his tower if left 1v1. Cho is a different story. If he gets an advantage, he can be way more oppressive (for a full tank) than maokai; however, he is easier to punish thanks to needing items and ult STACKS to be actually tanky or have meaningful damage. Furthermore, his sustain comes from killing minions, so if you can force him to fight away from minion waves and/or run him out of mana, he doesn't have the same sustain as maokai either. Personally, I'd say he is great but not broken if he is left 1v1. If you camp him, he will most likely push out at some point due to his aoe spells he uses to farm minions. And an overextended cho is a dead cho. Damage dealers that need a prolonged trade to really get an advantage vs tanks (irelia, renekton - thanks to armor buffs and cleaver nerf, etc.) are probably a bit weaker in early laning phase. Most however have scaling on their side in terms of split-pushing. They will eventually be able to win 1v1's handily and start bullying the tank and taking towers. Tanks do still have to sacrifice a bit of cs compared to the duelist/bruiser/carry toplaner potentially, but they are under less kill pressure early in most cases. I guess what I am trying to say right now is that tanks are strong, but perhaps not too overly strong that they are impossible to deal with. And most of the reason for them being so op lately I believe is due to adc's being too strong (thanks to support items over-buffing them) and Riot making tanks stronger as a way to make it more possible to punish adc's who misposition. I'm not entirely sold on the idea that it works, but I think that was the goal of the response anyways. So... to recap, tanks are mostly ok right now if teams properly punish their weaknesses - and if your teammates never do that, ban the tanks.

Side note response to the cho 1-shot complaints and cries to nerf him into the ground:

Cho needs at least 10 stacks, gargoyle, and warmog plus other tank/hp items to reach 1-shot potential. This allows him to delete ONE SQUISHY on the enemy team PROVIDED he can reach said member through all their cc, kiting, exhausts, etc. To get those 10 stacks, cho had to SURVIVE a very vulnerable laning phase, get at LEAST 4 ult kills on champs or epic monsters (baron or dragon only) through all the ks potential of his teammates while not DYING before he got the ult - all while tanking the enemy team and making sure he doesn't ult a target as the target gets shielded to mess up his feast kill.

To do this successfully generally requires flash in addition to item 3800 to close the gap through enemy peeling. He can't 1-shot before getting at least 4 stacks unless he is very far ahead. He stands a very real chance of dying before getting the enemy into feast range unless his team sets him up. And, he burned flash - leaving him more vulnerable to ganks for about 5 min. If your team peels properly, you should be able to survive a decent amount of time and either avoid him getting a stack or at least make him work very hard for it. Also, until he gets all his stacks going, he is much less tanky than a maokai or poppy would be with equivalent items - meaning your tank frontline should last longer than theirs does if you play things properly. Thus, there are at least 4 kills that must be "earned" in addition to surviving a vulnerable laning phase.

Finally, if you look at how strong adc's are right now, then you will fully recognize that the team with the better adc tends to win. Regardless of if the other team has a better top, mid, and/or jungler; adc's just out-carry every other role by a large margin. Adc's can 3-shot squishy mages, assassins, supports, and enemy adc's by late game - from several hundred range. They get the most peeling and assistance from their team (generally) of any role in the game. They reach such huge power just by getting items and being buffed by a heal/shield support; regardless of if they have gotten 10+ kills already or have 0 kills and assists. Adc's can use this amazingly strong killing power on and ENTIRE enemy team - many of them hitting 3+ enemies at one time with this damage thanks to ults, (jinx) rockets, and/or item 3085 . Furthermore, they HEAL for the damage they do; which they output continuously for as long as they are alive in the teamfight. Cho on the other hand does that level of damage to ONE target, gets ONE instance of healing (via his passive and getting a kill). Sure cho can do it like 2 whole seconds faster, but he does it to 1 target, probably has to flash for it, AND had to EARN several kills to reach that 1-shot potential. Thus, before any ADC complain about cho, they need to take a serious look at their role. What they see in cho is what most other champs see when facing a late game adc EVERY match.

4 Comments

Squidwards House1 votes

with autoattacks we talk about jax irelia yi, the kind of stuff that goes 0/20 and still 1shots a 100/0 adc right?

DarkRitual1 votes

Support gold income should be brought up to other roles (not sure exactly how would be best). Then make support items in line with costs/stats as other classes items. Rebalance champs as needed Ivern

woodvsmurph2 votes

Right now it's like they said on the last "This or That (with Kobe and Jatt)". Coin support item is giving way more gold than either other item -making heal/shield support items overly strong in solo queue. In pro play, "playmaking" (tank initiation supports: thresh, leona, alistar, blitz, etc.) have enough kill threat thanks to their stronger ability to set up jungle and laner ganks early that it counter-balances the stronger gold income of heal/shield supports. But in solo queue, people are less likely to repeat gank such a heal/shield support lane to properly punish it.

They can't ever give the same gold income to supports as they do to other laners. If they did, it would make for way too many cases of people finding ways to abuse that to get insane advantages in other roles. Just think how hard it was to play against zyra, brand, karma, etc. at start of this season when all you saw was mage supports with pushing power and kill potential. Or how locket and knight's vow were abused by toplaners and junglers for awhile. This is the type of results you would likely get from introducing random free gold for supports in the way you suggest.

DarkRitual1 votes

Part of why the items were used on other roles was their lower price. Also, it might work, depending HOW the income was evened out. Meta would likely change, but that's not really an uncommon thing. It's worth exploring on PBE for a few cycles to see what direction things would go and if it would mess with things too much.

More from Gameplay

More by woodvsmurph