Assassin's Should NEVER Have A 100% Pick Rate

Keshaun·Jul 3, 2018·52 votes·14,631 views

Assassins are designed to pick off a squishy target quick and easy, but sometimes struggle to get into the back line of the opposing team if they have crowd control. What they're not designed to do is win every lane and kill the whole team. Assassin's can win lane, yes, but you can play the lane perfectly and still get 100 to 0'd because Domination tree is too strong and the other classes are just inferior to Assassins. Assassins should be viable in some situations, but pretty much every game I play, I play against an Assassin.

63 Comments

PrinceOfStormsJul 4, 20189 votes

Champions like Zed and Talon need to do like 50% less damage to minions with Q and W respectively.

HibekiJul 4, 20181 votes

talon rushes tiamat so i dont think W is the problem

Demonblade TalonJul 4, 20188 votes

cry more. Or just get good at the game

Warlord RhinarkJul 4, 201827 votes

[{quoted}](name=Demonblade Talon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eIzKuoo0,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-07-04T06:08:18.113+0000)

cry more. Or just get good at the game

Hell yeah dude.

Zed proceeds to press R and insta murder the enemy ADC in 2 seconds while missing all of his skillshots because Duskblade

"Just get good at the game"

[sg-ezreal]

An Enemy SutandoJul 4, 201818 votes

Oh boi, people sure like to claim Zed can oneshot full health people with R-Duskblade alone without providing any proof of this ever happening.

But whatever suits your narrative, I guess.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Serika ZeroJul 4, 20182 votes

assuming the Zed playing isn't incompetent. It would be at least: auto attack (one or two), E, dusk blade, electrocute, and maybe his passive as well if he managed to sink in a 3rd auto attack. and yeh, that would kill and all are point and click abilities with the exception of E which is instant.

and yes, if the adc/mage has no protection, they will die in just that much in the mid game. Then again, that's the assassin's power point. The mid game, so i don't find that a problem.

My issue with Zed is that when he is 2 or more kills above, he can just WEQ auto and you are dead with electrocute and duskblade for the next 30+ minutes... coz fuck AD items, they are soooo "weak"

Snowman ArcJul 4, 20181 votes

I was playing on my smurf some patches ago and tried Zed for the first time. I was kinda ahead at some point around level 11, and then I went bot lane to kill Ashe. She dodged all my Qs with her flash, but I just managed to land an AA with Duskblade and my E. I killed her. I only landed E and one AA.

Sure, I was 2 levels ahead and maybe had 1k gold lead over the enemy mid laner, but I shouldn't be able to 1 shot someone so easily playing for the first time and MISSING all my skillshots.

Luigi TortelliniJul 4, 20185 votes

Lmao what are you talking about, this happens every single game a Zed gets even a LITTLE ahead. He only has to land skillshots if he's 0/10

0DESTROYERZ0Jul 4, 20187 votes

what are you on..... you literally r e auto ignite as zed and you can kill anyone who isnt a tank LOL

An Enemy SutandoJul 4, 20183 votes

Keep going, you're simply proving my point.

0DESTROYERZ0Jul 6, 20181 votes

what you want me to somehow go back and get replays from games that happened a while ago and far inbetween because zed is pretty much always banned? how about you go play a bunch of blind picks and im sure you will find a bunch of zeds to get 3 shot by.

Red WreckageJul 4, 20182 votes

as I conveniently am not going to bother mentioning levels and items, the positioning of ADC and the scenario in which it happened, and other minor details like HP etc.

HibekiJul 4, 20181 votes

After playing a little bit of zed myself, its not actually that simple unless youre ungodly fed.

You gotta land at least 1 shuriken if behind or average otherwise no bueno. Non fed with just an E and two autos with R is gonna leave them at about 30% hp

An Enemy SutandoJul 4, 20181 votes

For a successful assassination against competent targets, as in; killing at least your main target and getting out without dying, at least two shurikens, an E, multiple autos, a duskblade proc and sometimes ignite are required.

4evaJul 4, 20182 votes

[deleted]

Warlord RhinarkJul 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

just get good indeed. zed is a completely trash champion and if you think otherwise you suck at the game (you are silver 4). for zed to murder you with only R pop and duskblade he needs to have gotten to that point by getting fed through his mechanics because he can't just oneshot someone that way unless super-fed. so when you get oneshot by zed like this, what came before that are hundreds of mistakes that enabled him to get into that position. and even then, come late game zed is dead weight if you aren't braindead because not a single champion in the game is countered by as many meta items and abilities as zed is.

soraka silence when he ults in, soraka ult, exhaust, zhonyas, guardian angel, stopwatch, stealth, going resolve tree, building seeker's early / cloth armors / tabi, laners that can abuse his pre-6.. even then zed does not even win a 1v1 against most ADCs in super-late unless the ADC is again, braindead.

there is a reason why zed has not been picked diamond and up for literal years. he only works against stupid players and all most / all of low elo is stupid

https://i.imgur.com/3sMxRoH.jpg

4evaJul 4, 20182 votes

[deleted]

Warlord RhinarkJul 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

https://i.imgur.com/n8umjWj.png

Now you see this.

This is comedy genius.

Upvoted.

NahuiJul 3, 20184 votes

It’s funny because people think champions should be garbage if they lose lane. An assassin’s kit is designed to excel in 1v1. Even if you beat them in lane and have a gold lead, you need enough of a gold lead to trounce their natural advantage in kit to even begin to want to 1v1 them. Don’t complain that you can beat an assassin lane and still die to them when, at really no point in the game, should an assassin do poorly in most 1v1s. That’s called feast famine, and riot and most people dislike that style. Don’t ever look at an assassin and treat them as famine regardless of their score. They’re built for 1v1.

WimbledofyJul 4, 20184 votes

Any assassin has to and should have to correctly avoid all or most of their enemies abilities to win without dying. Don't look at an assassin and expect them to die if you can't successfully peel for yourself. It's not a turn based rpg game, so most of it comes to (or should come to) skill.

My Waifu VanillaJul 4, 20184 votes

Same goes for the mages....but taking double Qs to the face from Zed and expecting not to get popped is ignorant at best.

HaIlMonitorJul 3, 20183 votes

<Inserts any role/class and there generic description> What they're not designed to do is win every lane and kill the whole team.

Don't get me wrong, playing vs Assassins is annoying in lane because most of the are not interactive unless they make your screen go grey, and some of them are kind of brain dead like Talon and Fizz, but we cant just make a class worthless because one player decides to one trick Ryze.

NaymlissJul 4, 20189 votes

Ryze is actually so good into assassins. EW - Q and run, then laugh.

ALL MłGHTJul 4, 20186 votes

and Ryze is currently at a 44% win rate, QQQ and run, then cry.

NaymlissJul 4, 20186 votes

The issue with ryze is the immense amount of game knowlege, awareness, and mechanics you have to have to pull him off well. This is why the higher you go in elo https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ryze/kr/platinum https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ryze/kr/diamond

The higher the winrate you get. This is why mains with him that are genuinely good at the game can achieve super high winrates on him. He's similar to azir in that unless you're either one of the best mid laners in the world or are going to one trick him he's not worth picking up, but if you are one of those, he is insanely powerful.

ALL MłGHTJul 4, 20182 votes

Because in higher elo the team that doesn't play as a team loses

NaymlissJul 4, 20183 votes

That's true enough in NA, because we have players like hashinshin who don't want to learn how to play the game properly, but in high elo KR and CN and the highest of EU playing as a team is a pre-requisite. You don't lose off of it because you play as a team by default. If you don't play the game right(which surprise, involves teamwork), you won't get to that elo on those servers. They win or lose off of a bunch of other factors such as - mechanical skill, draft, and jungle pathing, and it is generally a mix of all those 3 working together.

NocturnalSheildJul 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The issue with ryze is the immense amount of game knowlege, awareness, and mechanics you have to have to pull him off well. This is why the higher you go in elo https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ryze/kr/platinum https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ryze/kr/diamond

The higher the winrate you get. This is why mains with him that are genuinely good at the game can achieve super high winrates on him. He's similar to azir in that unless you're either one of the best mid laners in the world or are going to one trick him he's not worth picking up, but if you are one of those, he is insanely powerful.

Meh. If you one of those its still WAY better to master one of the good mages. Like syndra.

RyzeTheSmurfMageJul 4, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ALL MłGHT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eIzKuoo0,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-04T04:34:39.774+0000)

and Ryze is currently at a 44% win rate, QQQ and run, then cry.

Because he is a hard champion. And thus his winrate as a whole is lower. But individually Ryze mains have over 50% winrate on him

IcyPepperJul 4, 20183 votes

They should be a situational pick, sure, not a general pick. There's too many of them to suggest they should absolutely be a niche pick, though.

XElite109Jul 4, 20183 votes

bro they are so fun though who doesn't want to delete people lol

Buzzkillington0Jul 4, 20182 votes

Well this is a damage meta where no defensive items are built and no tanks are picked, so it's obvious that assassins are gonna get picked often. No tanks > no pressure from cc lockdown on assassins to reach the backline.

ThefrostyvikingJul 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Well this is a damage meta where no defensive items are built and no tanks are picked, so it's obvious that assassins are gonna get picked often. No tanks > no pressure from cc lockdown on assassins to reach the backline.

You do realize that its exactly because the assassins are so powerful early on (along with others) which shutsdown the tanks from ever getting past 2 items and scaling up in time, yes?

Now we are in a situation where we either need buffs to tank early or nerfs to other relevant ones early to make tanks viable.

Well......for any kind of lategame pick or scaling champ to be viable at all actually.

Buzzkillington0Jul 4, 20184 votes

Conqueror is the main reason. Bruiser mains whined until Riot gave them the most busted keystone which happens to counter tanks heavily. Assassins still get shit on by tanks. But since tanks are seeing no play, assassins have no obstacles to prevent them from reaching the backline and doing their job. It's a fact that carries perform best when they have frontline to enable them to deal damage. Lategame picks can work again if botlane turrets gets fortification back to prevent the constant 4 man ganks and if we see a good nerf from damage keystones in general.

GayFluffyUnicornJul 4, 20181 votes

Most busted keystone OMEGALUL is that why cho gaths, ornn and maokais keep rightclicking bruisers to death?

ThefrostyvikingJul 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Conqueror is the main reason. Bruiser mains whined until Riot gave them the most busted keystone which happens to counter tanks heavily. Assassins still get shit on by tanks. But since tanks are seeing no play, assassins have no obstacles to prevent them from reaching the backline and doing their job. It's a fact that carries perform best when they have frontline to enable them to deal damage. Lategame picks can work again if botlane turrets gets fortification back to prevent the constant 4 man ganks and if we see a good nerf from damage keystones in general.

If "bruisers" using conqueror were so strong they´d be far more prevalent than they are, what we instead have is a massive selection of picks that pump out burst or a round of high sustained damage but quickly.

Midlane top ten has six assassins along with Zoe and TF, roaming burst is by far the most dominant thing that exists there.

Jungle only has 2 true assassins being eve and kayn......but honestly i find early game nida, lee and post 6 nocturne to work much like assassins do anyhow.

An argument could be made for glass cannon xin working much like rengar does too, or the wukong on the 11th spot.

Only in the toplane are there no real assassins or champs that work like one except possibly camilie i guess, she kinda assassinates rather well with items and the kit.

Botlane is dominated by early bullies and high survival picks like Mf&draven or Ez&kai'sa respectively.

The only time botlane would ever dedicate itself to survival or early is when the threats are so high that scaling doesnt work well-

This meta is absurdly early game focused, and its far from only conqueror causing it.

Rather if we peel away conqueror i dont think much would change, there are so many picks who dont even touch it right now and excel anyway.

ankoanko19Jul 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Conqueror is the main reason. Bruiser mains whined until Riot gave them the most busted keystone which happens to counter tanks heavily. Assassins still get shit on by tanks. But since tanks are seeing no play, assassins have no obstacles to prevent them from reaching the backline and doing their job. It's a fact that carries perform best when they have frontline to enable them to deal damage. Lategame picks can work again if botlane turrets gets fortification back to prevent the constant 4 man ganks and if we see a good nerf from damage keystones in general.

It's not the bruiser players fault that Riot didnt fucking remember that they existed as a class. Nobody asked for Conquerer specifically but just something that worked for bruisers. Hell, they didnt even need to change PTA and just keep it as the old Fervor and it would be perfect.

Sire HippingtonJul 5, 20181 votes

AS someone who plays alot of bruisers, i'd love to see conqueror gone. I never had issues 1v1 as bruiser, it was teamfighting and lategame that sucked, and conqueror did nothing for that as most teamfights end befor it even kicks in, while it's obnoxious 1v1 and contributes to defstats feeling totally worthless(and belive it or not, bruiser like it when defstats actually mean something as they rely on tankiness even more than tanks to be usefull in teamfights)

Sire HippingtonJul 5, 20181 votes

Tanks have no trouble dealing with assasins, not even now, that's a bullshit claim. They have trouble dealing with about everything else though...

Assasins beeing strong is merely a symptom of the current state of the game, not a cause.

ThefrostyvikingJul 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eIzKuoo0,comment-id=000700000001,timestamp=2018-07-05T14:50:07.328+0000)

Tanks have no trouble dealing with assasins, not even now, that's a bullshit claim. They have trouble dealing with about everything else though...

Assasins beeing strong is merely a symptom of the current state of the game, not a cause.

They do, most tanks as of now have a weak early going up to 1 or even 2 items.

By the time they get those the assassin will have killed them 7 times over and snowballed to insanity, with nothing being possible to do in response.

AmocJul 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Well this is a damage meta where no defensive items are built and no tanks are picked, so it's obvious that assassins are gonna get picked often. No tanks > no pressure from cc lockdown on assassins to reach the backline.

The other side of that is that the assassins are killings things so quickly that even tanks aren't able to save the intended victim. When a Zed, Talon, Rengar or Nocturne etc... can literally 100>0 the target in 1 second, the tanks don't have a sufficient window to save them. All they really do is cause the assassin some grief AFTER their victim is back at fountain.

TempName54846Jul 4, 20182 votes

you can play the lane perfectly and still get 100 to 0'd

unless there has been some very major outside influence on the lane then no you can't

Arcane Blue BoiJul 5, 20182 votes

I remember when assassins were used as response to the enemy comp rather than the staple.

Sire HippingtonJul 5, 20181 votes

how would you tell the difference right now? About every comp i see these days sreams "pick an assasins against me"....

Red WreckageJul 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Assassins should be viable in some situations, but pretty much every game I play, I play against an Assassin.

why dont I ever hear the same about other classes, like tanks/supports/AD ranged carries? cause pretty much every game I play, I play against a tank, a support and an ADC

IainG10Jul 5, 20181 votes

Support is a role (like Mid), not a champ type. The types are poke (read wannabe midlaners), enchanter (heal/shield bots) and tanks (usually the engage type). I still see tankless games (rare, because I usually pick one if no one else does). ADc you have a point, but hopefully the part of the new meta where other things go Bot lane will stick.

Radiant WukongJul 4, 20181 votes

Bruisers/assassins/mages/tanks all counter assassins.

Yes, assassins counter assassins.

AmocJul 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eIzKuoo0,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-07-04T14:21:32.255+0000)

Bruisers/assassins/mages/tanks all counter assassins.

Yes, assassins counter assassins.

Which mages are countering assassins? Swain?

Mostly not.

Sire HippingtonJul 5, 20181 votes

struggle to get into the back line of the opposing team if they have crowd control.

Still holds true. Just because everyone goes ape-shit and picks squishy damage with low cc into every position doesn't mean assasins lost theri weaknesses. It's just people refuseing to play tanks or anything that would be able to controll fights. Currently, the game is chaos and full of squishys, how can anyone be supprised by assasins haveing a good time when they are given the perfect conditions every fucking game.