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@meddler why buff assasins?

Affinity2··3 votes·3,541 views

Dude..... your player base is all going 18 in ferocity because they have no clue how stats work.

Lets take a look at zes for example

http://champion.gg/champion/Zed

Take a look at the mastery section and look at the play and win percentage differential for people running 18 in ferocity vs 18 in cunning. Cunning is at a whopping 59% which is grounds for nerfable so cunning didnt need a thunderlords buff and considering that it has 1/20 of the playrate that 18 in ferocity has YOUR PLAYERBASE IS BAD NOT THE CHAMPION AND I MIGHT REMIND THE READERS THIS IS PLAT+ PLAYERS ONLY

I would rather you guys did what morello did in s2 and just tell the community they are dumb than you play out your social experiment trying the community to shift over to thunderlords and then proceed to nerf assasins by the early midseason

So please tell me when you have ACCESS TO BETTER DATA are you attempting to buff a perfectly viable class of champions

23 Comments

RiotMeddler5 votes

Good question. We're not seeing that same outcome from our own analysis. The win rate you link there's got an extremely small sample size (190 games), which means it's not a reliable number. There'll also be significant correlation between better Zed players and those that take the appropriate masteries. That means that, rather than just comparing different masteries, you're comparing average players with ok masteries to experienced players with better masteries.

Overall we're confident that the current masteries don't serve some classes well enough, with AD assassins being one of the most in need cases, given they've also lost power from the AD itemization changes in the preseason.

Jeddy0173 votes

What other classes besides AD assassins are the new masteries not serving well?

RiotMeddler7 votes

Current plan is to keep adding masteries over time until we've got 3 options for each of the Tier 1 and Tier 2 keystones (the one point tiers). Key goals there are adding masteries for those that aren't currently well enough served and adding choice for those that have only a single sensible option at present.

Auryiel5 votes

What about DoT mages essentially being completely forced into DFT because you're making their spells interact too well with it and nerfing other areas of their kits?

Any comments about that? As I recall, you nerfed (or even removed in the case of Ionian Spark or whatever it was called) items instead of champions to prevent making champions be weak if they didn't opt into one specific choice.

Affinity21 votes

{quoted}

Current plan is to keep adding masteries over time until we've got 3 options for each of the Tier 1 and Tier 2 keystones (the one point tiers). Key goals there are adding masteries for those that aren't currently well enough served and adding choice for those that have only a single sensible option at present.

Honestly i loved the game without veteran scars but i understand why its back and gj with fervor and dft nerds but diversity hasnt panned out yet.

Stormraiders should prob be changed and the flat health on cannon can probably be more interesting

ExecutorDill2 votes

Will you making a good set of masteries to assist tanks? Because for them nothing outside resolve really caters to their playstyle (especially the tanks who aren't junngling).

It'd be nice if I could feel good about my left over 12 points when I spec in either Fer or Cun trees.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

What about champions like Zilean who don't have any good masteries to use?

I'm going 15/15/0 on him because no keystone is worth it and it's better for damage to just do 3 points in the tier 3 scaling masteries on Ferocity and Cunning than take a Keystone.

littlemali1 votes

I'd like to see a comeback of the % max health mastery, perhaps as a tier 4 one-point-wonder with 3% or something.

That way you can keep the 45-health-for-marksmen mastery - though I don't see the point in ever choosing that one when I can get 8% more healing from lifesteal and regenration instead, which grants me a greater advantage throughout the game.

LankPants2 votes

From what I've seen the 1.5% bonus damage when no allies are near isn't even optimal on most laners including assassins. The main time when you really need the extra damage is during ganks, when trading it seems better just to have the biscuits since 20 HP from a single pot will outweigh the 1.5% in terms of total trade efficiency.

The only time I could see it being good is on junglers, where the extra damage will help them to kill the jungle quicker, at least assuming it's not champ only.

Cosnirak1 votes

Some non dot mages are suffering bad. They were hit with nerfs from every direction and some were bad off even before the changes. They have to give up so much more now to get mana and cdr from masteries and all their items cost more. Don't make us wait for a big mage overhaul to fix the ones currently suffering. Especially as you already buffed some of their worst enemies (Yasuo!) and are about to buff more with AD assassins.

Francisco Pires3 votes

But assassins are fun to play. And the most popular champions are assassins too (Zed, Leblanc, fizz), so they get a lot of money from that.

Affinity22 votes

[{quoted}](name=Francisco Pires,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eHfhBNJW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-07T21:12:23.890+0000)

But assassins are fun to play. And the most popular champions are assassins too (Zed, Leblanc, fizz), so they get a lot of money from that.

Typical GD circle jerk answer^^^^^^^^

Its not about the money lol

ExecutorDill2 votes

Assassins make the big flashy plays that give ppl the wtfast moments and really rile up the crowd.

Maximum Morde1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Francisco Pires,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eHfhBNJW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-07T21:12:23.890+0000)

But assassins are fun to play. And the most popular champions are assassins too (Zed, Leblanc, fizz), so they get a lot of money from that.

Riot has some pretty smart people on staff so I don't buy this argument. Sure they could do a short term money grab that way, but long term that would kill the game and their mad stacks of cash with it. They know this and are trying to push the game in a direction that will make it healthy long term.

Indominus Blade3 votes

cuz assassins suck atm

ExecutorDill2 votes

I like it that way tbh. But the reason they suck i'll give is cause marksmen are to dam good via the update. I knew this was coming and seen it a mile away but darn. They just too op!

Lajneen2 votes

{quoted}

So please tell me when you have ACCESS TO BETTER DATA are you attempting to buff a perfectly viable class of champions

A perfectly viable class of champions wouldn't dominate the bottom of the win rate chart.

If you wanna talk about data you should do the math on how much weaker their itemization is now.

La Bello1 votes

Katarina Shaco Khazix

"perfectly viable"

LOL.

3TWarrior1 votes

assassins have the least amount of champs after supports but at the same time, they have the most ability to exploit situations

a katarina (if she can hang back when a crowd control is expended) can then jump in and deal large amounts of damage to most of the opposing team in a team fight

khazix is pretty much the best jungler for ganking mid and top lane but at the same time is now capable of playing top lane against the bruisers and tanks that reside there and should any opponent get out of range of their team, he can kill them (though he does need some sort of update)

shaco...shaco is chaos XD he thrives in chaos

La Bello1 votes

Katarina is feast or Famine and waiting for CC's to be down to jump in and pray for a quick penta is LITERALLY THE ONLY PLAYSTYLE AVAILABLE TO HER.

Kha'zix is notoriously hard to balance and is almost always inferior to Rengar(another problem assassin that should be addressed). At any given time in a patch he either Terrorizes champs or gets Terrorized by other champs and is sometimes a subpar jungle pick (Elise,Rengar,).

Nocturne hasnt been relevant for a while. First the Ult range nerf then he got powercreeped out of relevance plain and simple. The only Assassin that is usually forced to build bruiser if he wants to have a impact of any sort.

Shaco gets sneezed on in a fight and dies. He excels at alot of things but teamfights (I assume thats what you meant by "chaos") is not one of them and honestly that is perfectly fine. He has a very unique playstyle and can shut down the opposing jungler. The only thing that annoys me is his hybrid scalings. Either make him AP or make him AD . Also a major issue is the general clunkyness of his ult.

Trust me. Alot of the assassins have glaring problems that could be addressed.

Akali massive power spike at level 6 and her insane unfair sustain from her passive

Rengars low counterplay.

Talons low counterplay and poor laning .

The only assassin I feel is okay is Zed. Very powerful early-mid game. Lategame he falls off as the counterplay to his ult becomes available and most carries can lifesteal or be healed through his damage. This doesnt make him completely useless he simply has to be smarter about choosing his fights (maybe jumping onto that 6 slotted Vayne is a bad idea)

insaiyanbacca1 votes

only one i disagree with here in shaco, you can do just fine with him if you actually know what to do with him tbh.

ExecutorDill1 votes

AKA Another NERF to mages (T_T)

item 3070 TwistedFate item 3070

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

tfw op is complaining about assassins but can't even spell Zed correctly

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