this isn't just for garen, but all champions. I'm tired of seeing tanks and champions who build tank doing 100000 fking damage with no damage items. I don't fucking understand how this is difficult for you riot. Mao building tank and having infinite heals with massive damage is not fuckign okay, Me building all attack items and doing less damage than a tank is not okay. Wtf do you not understand?
D357R0Y3R31 votesI do not think you saw what an ADC lvl of damage is
Fear the Kayn3 votesI do not think you saw what an ADC lvl of damage is
His ult can kill a squishy villain from more than half hp easily.
SociopathFriend20 votesHe's SUPPOSED to kill a squishy villain at around half hp. His ult does 40% of their missing health as true damage plus the flat 525.
The only thing he has is tenacity and a slow-cleanse. If the melee champion with only a movement speed buff for mobility manages to close in on your carry- you're going to lose that carry to a whole bunch of champions- Garen is not unique in that regard.
VoraciousX2 votesHe's SUPPOSED to kill a squishy villain at around half hp. His ult does 40% of their missing health as true damage plus the flat 525.
The only thing he has is tenacity and a slow-cleanse. If the melee champion with only a movement speed buff for mobility manages to close in on your carry- you're going to lose that carry to a whole bunch of champions- Garen is not unique in that regard.
People always say Garen is slow, but that Q is fast as hell, especially with dead man's. He can also kill most squishies from FULL health easily. Every time I've ever let a Garen Q me I have died if he is even remotely even outside of juking him to go one way in a bush and turning and walking the other way while he's spinning.
Starcraft243ver8 votesIf garen Q you as a ranged champion, you fucked up massively.
AS I LAY FEEDING3 votes"He is supposed" LUL
Critmaster Garen8 votes[{quoted}](name=Fear the Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e1NX0HN0,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-09-25T06:17:48.541+0000)
His ult can kill a squishy villain from more than half hp easily.
lol. every time someone complains about garens ult, the damage seems to increase.
first they claim its doing almost half health in damage, then half health, and now apparanly more.
1.) garens damage should be on the same level as a marksman, considering hes supposed to be a juggernaut. juggernauts are carries just like adc, only with different win conditions.
2.) garens damage isnt even close to that of an adc. especially not if he builds full tank. have you ever played that champion yourself?
AggressiveWolf5 votesPTSD of Jhin dealing 1.2k dmg crit while speeding at mach 20*[sg-zephyr]*
Créam19 votesHow do u kite a guy who can remove all slows and has trinty force with deadmans plate XD
Romans VI XXIII3 votesIdk, I like to stand still and hope he doesnt see me while I'm AAing him.
ZackTheWaffleMan1 votesHe can only see you if you are acting villainous
DearPear15 votesI mean, Garen has a nice burst, but you can't compare that to ADCs level of DPS.
Shablagoo11 votesAnd when you build nothing but dmg dont be suprised when you get oneshot [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Goes both ways buddy
Bultz1 votesAnd when you build nothing but dmg dont be suprised when you get oneshot [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Goes both ways buddy
Explain to me how building no damage items and being able to one shot someone makes sense? do you understand what you said or should i explain?
Critmaster Garen2 votesExplain to me how building no damage items and being able to one shot someone makes sense? do you understand what you said or should i explain?
base damage with defensive itemization of a jugger beats base defense and offensive itemization of a marksman.
thats how it makes sense.
Bultz1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e1NX0HN0,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-09-25T16:37:26.173+0000)
base damage with defensive itemization of a jugger beats base defense and offensive itemization of a marksman.
thats how it makes sense.
SO your saying they are so op and jugger damager needs a nerf because even in their base damage they are able to one shot adc's? I totally agree they need to be nerfed. No one should build pure tank and do 1 shot damage. thank you for agreeing.
Critmaster Garen3 votesSO your saying they are so op and jugger damager needs a nerf because even in their base damage they are able to one shot adc's? I totally agree they need to be nerfed. No one should build pure tank and do 1 shot damage. thank you for agreeing.
im saying if you get into melee range of a carry with the win condition to get ontop of you, while you play a carry whos win condition is to stay away from everyone, you deserve to die.
juggernauts have high base damage which allows them to itemize into defense, to offset your range advantage.
Bultz1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e1NX0HN0,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-25T16:48:42.712+0000)
im saying if you get into melee range of a carry with the win condition to get ontop of you, while you play a carry whos win condition is to stay away from everyone, you deserve to die.
juggernauts have high base damage which allows them to itemize into defense, to offset your range advantage.
Thats nice until you realise I'm talking about Melee champions.
Critmaster Garen3 votesThats nice until you realise I'm talking about Melee champions.
melee champions tend to beat garen, unless they have the villain mark.
if youre losing to him, you should reevaluate your trading patterns. the only group of melee champions he should have an inherent advantage against are assassins. but thats because fighters in general beat assassins, because defense > burst.
DODGEORLOSE10 votesHe's slow and easy to kite. Just don't get close to him. He has no form of hard cc other than a silence. That silence requires him to get close.
Bultz23 votesHe's slow and easy to kite. Just don't get close to him. He has no form of hard cc other than a silence. That silence requires him to get close.
Yeah unless you play melee champions.....
Romans VI XXIII5 votesFYI every melee champ but udyr and singed out range him with at least 1 ability or more.
KoreanJesus032013 votes"just don't get close to him" okay... i guess i'm not farming my lane... -top laner okay... i guess i'll just sit out of the fight because he brushes off cc... -ADC okay... i guess i'll just let him perma heal in lane... -spell casting champion
Z3Sleeper11 votesokay... I guess I'll just pick a more disgusting champion
*picks 
*
*sweats nervously as his Q is blocked and his E does 25% less damage*
Romans VI XXIII1 votesA good garen actually counters jax :)
Bârd3 votesA good Garen counters Jax players who don't understand Garen.
Using E to mask your Q cast will only work if they aren't expecting you to do exactly that. Once they hear your Q SFX, they will be on the lookout for your attack and can easily just press E to block it.
Fine. Lets say you expected that, and you cancelled your AA to bait his E. Your Q lasts 4.5 seconds, and his E lasts 2. For the duration of his E, he's just beating on you while you hold onto your Q auto. His E runs out, you W the stun. 2.4 seconds have elapsed. Your speed buff already expired, and using the 0.4 second head start from his stun he just walks away from you for the remaining 2.1 seconds before Q'ing back on top of you and continuing to wail on you.
Hell, even if he doesn't walk away and you actually manage to silence him, it doesn't matter. He already burned all his CD's, and he's an auto attack champion anyway, so what the hell is that silence going to do for you? Was it worth giving Jax 2.4 seconds of unanswered attacks (and passive stacks)?
Romans VI XXIII1 votesSee your thinking Garen is maxing Q vs jax, but really Garen counters jax by maxing E, and forcing jax to E to dodge Garen Q while then going into E, so jaxs E does nothing for him defensively as stuns do not interrupt Garen E. So if jax wants to retaliate vs garen he has to stand In his E.
Vs jax idc if I land Q, I use it solely for the MS/cleanse and as a bait.
At equal skill lvl Garen beats jax until late game, where jax wins strictly due to jax just being full of stats, rather than outplay potential.
Z3Sleeper2 votes[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e1NX0HN0,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-25T18:01:10.963+0000)
so jaxs E does nothing for him defensively as stuns do not interrupt Garen E
ACTIVE: Jax enters Evasion, a defensive stance for up to 2 seconds, causing all basic attacks against him to miss. Jax also takes 25% reduced damage from all area of effect abilities. After 1 second, Jax can reactivate to end it immediately.
a gOoD GaREn mAXeS E
Ahem, an actually good Garen maxes Q and waits out counterstrike's duration with E before attempting to retaliate with his ranked up Q (if he is still in range... which he never is). If Jax uses Q to hop away (or just walks away), the Garen player simply holds on to his Q and has lane priority because of it for the next 16 seconds until Jax E is back up.
There's no point in maxing E here because it's guaranteed to do 25% less damage. By maxing Q you can atleast take advantage of the 16 second Counterstrike cooldown to zone him off or out-trade him with Q.
Romans VI XXIII1 votesAhem, an actually good Garen maxes Q and waits out counterstrike's duration with E before attempting to retaliate with his ranked up Q (if he is still in range... which he never is). If Jax uses Q to hop away (or just walks away), the Garen player simply holds on to his Q and has lane priority because of it for the next 16 seconds until Jax E is back up.
please read this again. read what you are saying.
You literary just said Max Q even tho you will NEVER land it max it, cause maxing E is useless since he will reduce it by 25%, OH NO not 25%!!! better 25% than 100% since it blocks Q entirely LOLZLOZLOZLOZOLZOZ.\
Also Garen E counters the stun as well with out even needing to use W
Z3Sleeper2 votesPlease read it again cuz I explained why.
You can still use E during his E, there's just no point in maxing it because after the E wears off if you have a rank 1 Q you have 0 pressure to punish his E cd with because your Q is a pathetic rank 1 auto reset which means while his E is down, he STILL has lane priority (cuz Jax ranked up W > Garen rank 1 Q).
Maxing E is asking to be the bitch of the lane.
Additionally, maxing E means not having the very-much-needed 3.5s Q movement speed duration.
SHANK LUX MAINS1 votesGaren vs jax is 100% on the jax to outplay while garen just mashes buttons
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=SHANK LUX MAINS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e1NX0HN0,comment-id=000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2018-09-26T00:02:27.928+0000)
Garen vs jax is 100% on the jax to outplay while garen just mashes buttons
ok, lets assume for a moment garen unconditionally beats jax early game.
the issue with that would be?
because jax beats him mid to lategame. hes a lategame champion, so having a phase where he gets smacked around early game should be acceptable?
its not even the case really, since jax can outplay garens cooldown windows.
SHANK LUX MAINS1 votesNever said theres a problem with jax losing early, but garen is cancer because one mistake and your dead due to his ult. Losing lane to a champ that outplays you is fun, having to be ready to e at all times and doing 0 damage back through garen w is not fun. Even if you stomp his shit in he still beats you until you finish triforce
Bârd2 votesYeah, and that's pretty much all Garen can do here.
Sure there are a couple of tricks Garen can pull, but Jax is the one with the agency in this lane.
If the Jax plays well, he'll always be able to beat Garen (or at the very least out-farm him) because Garen is so basic that there's a pretty hard limit to what he can do.
ZephyrDrake10 votes"just don't get close to him" okay... i guess i'm not farming my lane... -top laner okay... i guess i'll just sit out of the fight because he brushes off cc... -ADC okay... i guess i'll just let him perma heal in lane... -spell casting champion
oh look someone who has no idea how to play against a Garen
Trias0001 votesHe's slow and easy to kite.
Maybe it's just me being terribad, but once I played Kalista with glacial augment and he still caught me with ease - regardless if attack-moved or just straight up ran away from him.
Starcraft243ver3 votesWell next time do not take glacial augment and you might actually be able to damage him :)
Handy Sandy 2 votesHe's slow and easy to kite. Just don't get close to him. He has no form of hard cc other than a silence. That silence requires him to get close.
out of all the champions garen is up there on a scale of hard to kite. 
is easy to kite, 
is easy to kite, 
is easy to kite, garen has an ms boost/silence and tenacity. if you're caught out as someone like idk 
u arent kiting that
Ulquiorra01234 votesWait wait wait. You just listed 3 champions who are on the same level of ability to kite as Garen. The only thing he has is a single slow removal, thats it. He doesn't have the initiation that both cho and amumu have, he doesnt have the damage that illaoi has.
To top it all off you literally stated a caught out Kogmaw is going to die to him, WELL DUH. Kog got caught out presumably without flash. Immobile ADC dying to a bruiser because of bad positioning, who would have fcking thunk eh?
Critmaster Garen4 votesif you're caught out as someone like idk
because youre already got caught.
which means you failed at kiting.
are you actually expecting to win a melee fight against a champion whos win condition is to get into melee range of you, when your champions win condition is to not let anyone get into melee range of you?
then what would be the point of that other champion, or any melee carry at all?
Colton1479 votes
was gutted into the ground for doing damage. 
Sire Hippington7 votesyea, cause garen has a massive team wide slow with two screens range followed by a teamwide knockup with the same massive range, both applying a debuff that increases cc duration, another way to apply that debuff on aoe, another aoe knockup and another aoe slow...
Garen has no cc other than a little singletarget silence that requires him to get into meleerange, and you say it's not ok for him to do more damage than a massive cc monster like orn?
Biscuit Bite9 votesBut Garen is not a tank. Juggernaut.
SociaI Justice8 votesif adcs are ranged don't let them do garens level of damage :^)
WAZZZUP5008 votesOk hol up. Your perception is extremely skewed. It's not that garen out damages adcs, its that their damage is more noticeable against champs that are very squishy. You see their health bar going down slower because they have MORE hp and MORE resistances. they don't necessarily do absurd damage, they can just survive long enough to kill you, if they can even reach you. Garen is designed to be a juggernaut, not a straight tank, he has no hard cc and they only way he'll kill you is if you go to fight him. He is immobile and his only engage to run at you, and he's weak to people who can kite him.
You play fighter champs, and you build damage. You are dumping damage into your kit without considering how that damage will affect fights. If you're using that damage to target the garen, you're doing something wrong. Wukong and Kayn can EASILY go around the frontline to kill the carries, so do that. You have to understand how juggernauts work; they WANT you to go in and fight them head on, that's where they excel. Look at darius, garen, yorick, illaoi; they are all immobile champs that don't have the best engage. They rely on you getting into range of them and their abilities so that they can punish you hard.
TL;DR: Tanks=/=Juggernauts. Don't fight a juggarnaut unless you can do so while staying out of their range. Don't complain that a champ works the way they're designed to.
P.S. ARAM and Twisted are way different than summoners rift, and they balance champs around SR
Moody P5 votesgood thing he doesn't
Hexs Fortune4 votesGaren is a Juggernaut. High Damage and High Durability is what they do.
Critmaster Garen5 votes[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e1NX0HN0,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-09-25T10:19:37.507+0000)
Garen is a Juggernaut. High Damage and High Durability is what they do.
wait for the darius buffs. op is going to lose his mind XD
Bjørnetjenesten1 votesAnd im fucking tired of seeing 
invalidate all tank items completely, without building any anti tank items...