Boards›Gameplay

Revert LeBlanc's rework. Nobody likes to play against new LeBlanc.

Mafia LeBlanc··67 votes·8,589 views

LeBlanc mains don't like the rework either.

I am one of the players with the most mastery points on this champion of any player on this game. I've played her since release in 2010, and mained her after they changed Evelynn into Shyvana with stealth.

Over and over, people complain incessantly about LB's new kit. Former LB mains have quit playing her because of how clunky her new kit is.

She is 5x more oppressive than her old iteration ever was, both in lane, and in teamfights. She doesn't even need to snowball in lane to become a monster later on, and she is one of the highest ban rates in the entire game.

The only way to make this iteration 'fair' is to completely break her knees, aka Evelynn/Olaf her and make her absolute trash by removing 1/2 to 3/4s of her damage, increasing her delays even more, doubling/tripling her mana costs.. and even still, the nature of her kit will still cause her to be frustrating as all hell to play against. And dumpstering a champion like they did to Evelynn causes people dedicated enough to still play the champion to receive 9x reports every single time they play them.

I was perma-banned on my first account because I mained Evelynn before and after the nerf that Morello did, and I was literally reported every single game I picked her, whether I carried, went 9/0, or not. It didn't matter, because my teammates saw it as trolling because of the dev's attitude towards the champion. Please don't ruin my champion again, and make me get reported and banned for continuing to play the champion I have literally spent thousands of hours practicing on. Please don't ruin my champion with inevitable knee-breaking nerfs on this iteration that nobody likes.

Even I, as an avid LB player, hate when the enemy picks her, and I panic a bit because I know how hard it is to fight a LB who is skilled with her.

Old LB was nowhere near as complained about, and never had anywhere near the winrate or banrate that her current monstrous iteration has. It would make the entire playerbase much happier if you were to revert the rework on this champion, rather than being forced to give nerf after nerf after nerf, which likely STILL won't fix the problem. She's received some heavy-duty nerfs since her rework, and remains dominant.

Please upvote if agreed so the devs see this.

98 Comments

ScissorsNstuff32 votes

I prefer playing against new leblanc to old leblanc.

at least you get to play against new leblanc at least new leblanc doesn't have an automatic antideath ability that triggers when you get her low

I also like playing new leblanc more even if the controls are clunky but they were always like that

Anidan10 votes

She feels far better to me. She may be clunky overall, but I like how she is now more than her previous incarnation. It feels so good be able to press my ult and then choose whatever ability I want rather than having to mimic only my previous spell - that felt clunky. It resulted in her being this character designed around clever play but realistically boiled to just a few options in a lot of situations due to how Mimic worked previously. Now she can cleverly use her ult to use one of her other spells on demand and that by itself feels a lot better to me. I don't mind the delayed burst if it means I can do that.

Also, the removal of the insta-burst is probably better overall anyway. Now she doesn't have to play solely to eradicate someone's existence before they respond - now they can respond and we both have more options about what to do about it.

TyroneWatermelon17 votes

No one likes to play against the braindead Old Leblanc either.

Ravore14 votes

No. That's a bad idea because atleast she falls off hard late game now and she cant insta kill you and blink out. This is possibly the recommendation ever. Atleast she has to land the chain....Like do you people forget what she was before?

Mafia LeBlanc3 votes

{quoted}

No. That's a bad idea because atleast she falls off hard late game now and she cant insta kill you and blink out. This is possibly the recommendation ever. Atleast she has to land the chain....Like do you people forget what she was before?

She absolutely does not fall off late game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8JHF2G078A

Pair her with amu or malphite and she's one of the best teamfighters in the game right now.

Old LB could never do anything close to this.

Ravore14 votes

Are you lying or just trolling? Old leblanc could do that faster and better? W onto the enemies then R onto them then they're dead. It's the same concept but she would've did it a lot faster with no time for them to react.

Mafia LeBlanc2 votes

{quoted}

Are you lying or just trolling? Old leblanc could do that faster and better? W onto the enemies then R onto them then they're dead. It's the same concept but she would've did it a lot faster with no time for them to react.

No, in that exact scenario, the best old LB could have done was W -> R to R onto all of them then QE someone. Old LB wouldn't have been able to WR and have both iterations hit all of them in that fight at baron.

New LB does the same damage as old LB's Q W E to all 3 of those hit champions.

DrCyanide8 votes

No... Pretty sure this is what would have happened with old Leblanc in that scenario.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=680dhnmefD8

Limrick2 votes

That isn't even close to the same though? They were all extremely low and on top of each other. Not to mention LB was fed.

Sinlaire3 votes

yeah. and the video linked of the leblanc doing a 1v4 at baron was 4 squishes averaging 3 levels lower with the leblanc at atleast a 5 kill streak.

So other than the half dead part, yeah. the situation was exactly the same. and just like it was said, old leblanc would have won isntantly instead of over 6 seconds.

DrCyanide3 votes

Fed being 3 kills, and we have no reference to how fed the LeBlanc in the first clip was.

There's another clip I was looking for where old LeBlanc double distorts on top of the whole group to instantly get a quadra or Pentakill.

ChaoticPinecone2 votes

Old Leblanc wouldnt have been able to do that.

Look at the position Leblanc was in and the way she used her skills. She had to use her W to get in range from over a wall, RW to get the passive mark on them, W to get back out to safety, R to get close again, and Q. If you look at the actual spells used to do damage, it was only RW and Q. At level 18, those two spells give you around 800+180% AP AoE damage (when the passive is proced).

If we assume the same scenario, then what does old Leblanc have? If she blows her W to get into range, she is left with her R - Mimic W did 450+90%AP AoE damage. In order to do comparable AoE damage, she would need to hit both of her W-R for around 700+150%AP AoE damage - meaning she would have to walk up instead of jumping the wall, which gives the enemy more time/a narrower corridor to turn or land some spells. The benefit of old LB is that she wouldnt have to use her Q to execute her AoE combo, so she has that option for some single target damage, but the huge difference in AoE (IMO) is a lot more impactful. The other option of course is to Flash-W-R, but that assumes your flash is up (and if we wanted an accurate comparison, we would also have to give Flash to New LB and compare damage, right?) And even if the flash was up, she would have done less AoE damage from a W-R combo - the Sona and Varus who barely lived would have been a lot healthier, and the Lux might not have even died.

No matter how you look at it, Old Leblanc couldnt do what that Leblanc did. She would either have to blow her Flash or the enemy team would have to let her walk up to 600 range, and even then she would do less damage overall.

Ravore1 votes

Are you kidding? So you're telling me the fact that she would've had to walk would've changed the outcome? They were low squishy targets and she was fed. In fact there would've been less time to react. There is literally no way around it. In your circle jerk you're trying to forget the demon that old leblanc was.

ChaoticPinecone2 votes
  1. They were pretty much all full health
  2. Yes, I think having to walk would have made a difference. Being able to gapclose over a wall is a very strong ability in League - if she was forced to walk from Blue to River, that gives more heads up to your support to exhaust, for your tankier members to peel off baron and engage 1v4, or it allows you to a better chance at hitting some CC.

I gave you the reasons why old Leblanc couldnt do what this Leblanc did, both in terms of situation and in terms of damage. Call that "circlejerk" if you want, but I call that facts.

Ravore1 votes

"call it facts" but the poster above us proved you wrong.

ChaoticPinecone2 votes

Who? The guy who linked to a completely different video where, gasp, a fed Leblanc 1) used her flash (and homeguards) to get into range and 2) killed off 4 enemies who were under 1/4 health?

What does that have to do with the scenario we were analyzing? Again - my analysis of what happened in the clip around Baron still holds true. Old LB wouldnt have been able to do what New LB could.

Arakadia10 votes

The W delay was nice atleast, and the delay on her passive was nice, maybe reduce it as the game progresses? In general, my two big beefs with LB weren't her damage AT ALL. It was how she could safely attack you and blink out, and how there was like 0 chances of escaping her chain unless she runs away. Seriously, the range on her chain is exceptionally hard to break unless your Zed or Yasuo or the like, but when you give her 2 dashes and the large chain range, it felt like their was a better chance of the game glitching and stopping the chain root than actually escaping the chain root.

Overall, I think the delays were good, but Riot took away her weakness of waveclear. She has CC, range, mobility, safety, waveclear, roam power, map pressure, AND good damage. I agree with you, and I think that they made another Azir/Kalista, someone who is good at everything (except for LB she has bad objective control), while being really good at some things.

6Sfool8 votes

I'd much rather face the new leblanc then the old one. That said, I think her tether range should be nerfed significantly. She can blink practically anywhere and still keep that tether intact. Once I faced her as Nocturne. I spellshielded her q thinking I could burst her before sigil, landed my q, set up my e as she set up her tether, she blinked out of e range, rooted me, and then deleted me with what was left of her combo. A 1000 range tether on a hypermobile champion is near impossible to break. It should be a maximum of like 700, to actually put her in harm's way for that whole 1.5 seconds if she plans on deleting someone.

In hindsight I probably should have spellshielded her e, but my point is- she has total control of when and where to fight even as she's trying to maintain chains. If they make her get closer to the enemy with a shorter tether range, she actually has to take risks to pull off her highest damage combo.

BIackfox5 votes

You mean revert all reworks. I like the old lb better as well

Mafia LeBlanc1 votes

[deleted]

Troll for Trump4 votes

Fizz needs to be kept weak because of his ult No one knows what to do with Talon because they made him so gimmicky Zed has issues Akali is still not an assassin Ekko is probably a meta thing, but he needs a larger scale rework. Pick either AP or tank, and don't do a bad job of both Katarina is obnoxious Rengar is obnoxious Khazix was probably the only good one out of all of them.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

Fizz needs to be kept weak because of his ult No one knows what to do with Talon because they made him so gimmicky Zed has issues Akali is still not an assassin Ekko is probably a meta thing, but he needs a larger scale rework. Pick either AP or tank, and don't do a bad job of both Katarina is obnoxious Rengar is obnoxious Khazix was probably the only good one out of all of them.

Ekko needs his W passive removed, it's one of the only reasons why he can be a tank and still fight other tanks/fighters. Then we buff his numbers and reduce his scalings, so his damage isn't so high when he goes AP. Also, he does a lot of damage for someone with 2 utility spells.

Troll for Trump1 votes

HIs passive itself needs a rework.

He's an assassin, and having that 3-hit type of thing is too clunky and unreliable.

If he were tank or bruiser, he could get all 3 stacks off, but it's too risky with full AP ekko.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

HIs passive itself needs a rework.

He's an assassin, and having that 3-hit type of thing is too clunky and unreliable.

If he were tank or bruiser, he could get all 3 stacks off, but it's too risky with full AP ekko.

The 3 hit passive exist in order to give visual counterplay and a delay with his combo.

Troll for Trump2 votes

These forced delays are part of why other classes do the assassins' jobs just as well, if not better than them. Assassins have their kill window delayed so it's the same as any other classes, so there is little reason to pick them in the first place.

TyroneWatermelon3 votes

{quoted}

These forced delays are part of why other classes do the assassins' jobs just as well, if not better than them. Assassins have their kill window delayed so it's the same as any other classes, so there is little reason to pick them in the first place.

Better a delay instead of instagib like pre rework Lb fizz and rengar

Troll for Trump2 votes

They're supposed to instagib.

Why?

  • It's their defining trait: killing a target in a quick kill window. If everyone's kill window is the same, there is nothing unique

  • They punish draintanks for just building lifesteal and no tank

  • They kill ADCs quick enough that they can't heal all the dmg

  • They kill mages before they unleash their aoe burst combo to 100-40 5 people(Looking at Brand)

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

{quoted}

They're supposed to instagib.

Why?

  • It's their defining trait: killing a target in a quick kill window. If everyone's kill window is the same, there is nothing unique

  • They punish draintanks for just building lifesteal and no tank

  • They kill ADCs quick enough that they can't heal all the dmg

  • They kill mages before they unleash their aoe burst combo to 100-40 5 people(Looking at Brand)

Instagib is not a healthy game part and Riot already addressed it few times. No assassin should instakill other characters without any form of counterplay,like it or not

Troll for Trump2 votes

And no ADC should be able to do as much burst as assassins, but have more dps, better dueling potential, and have the ability to be a draintank, while being ranged and having less risk

XeroKimo3 votes

Yes assuming that adc can get in range and deal damage safely, or else a mage might kill him from a farther range, or a diver would go all in and kill a helpless adc, without proper peel, they aren't worth much

Troll for Trump1 votes

OK, what do assassins have that no other class has.

The only thing I can think of is that they're supposed to get in and then get out, but even that's clunky on a lot of things

XeroKimo1 votes

They are supposed to flank, wait for an opportunity to go in and out without much contest, and kill any squishy target they can. An assassin shouldn't go in mindlessly get a kill and come out unscratched, they should wait for cooldowns to be burned, and cc to be down, and kill people that way

Troll for Trump1 votes

Why do that when every other class can do that without risk or having to wait for cds.

XeroKimo1 votes

Because what other class is there that is specifically made to kill squishies,

Divers go to the back line, they try to kill squishies, but the damage output are subpar to assassins, tho they are more tanky compared to them.

Tanks are made to zone the enemy by being in the front lines, or peel for an ally be being in backline

Adcs are made to focus the closes target possible to try to maximize dps

Mages are made to either wear down an enemy from a large range or deal damage to their front line who are normally grouped

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yeah that's the problem

but the damage output are subpar to assassins, tho they are more tanky compared to them.

They do about the same dmg now, especially with the delayed kill windows, so the dps is about the same. Being tanky means they can last under turret fire longer, while assassins will die quicker. But the time it takes for both of their classes to pull off their comboes is about equal right now. There are some exceptions, but generally, that is the case

Tanks are made to zone the enemy by being in the front lines, or peel for an ally be being in backline

Basically stop assassins from doing their job, while doing the same dmg, just split up among multiple targets. They can dive better than assassins, because of their tankiness, so they don't risk being blown up as much. If you go in as Talon right now, by the time you die or get out, you'll do as much dmg, if not less than Malph, Sej, or Zac. Maybe even Naut.

Adcs are made to focus the closes target possible to try to maximize dps

They get less say in who they are damaging, but they pull it off more consistently, and current meta adcs do more dmg than most assassins at this point.

Mages are made to either wear down an enemy from a large range or deal damage to their front line who are normally grouped

Mage dmg does not need to be discussed.

Assassin dmg is so clunky they can't even use their keystone specifically designed for them, stormraider's, and have to use TLD to keep up.

In addition, they're still feast/famine. Some of them are even more feast/famine than before

XeroKimo1 votes

The kill window is a balancing tool riot made for assassins in the rework, in reality, with the delay window, they made assassins deal either the same amount of dmg or greater within the assigned time, normally 2 seconds, compared to pre-rework. Some champs fell short of this, like shaco for example, with simple math, his dmg was outright nerfed, except for ap shaco which has been nerfed now, while some became too linear, like fizz, who relies 100% on his ult to assassinate now. Most champs manage to meet this line, and the ones who haven't should be looked at for potential buffs or minor mechanic changes that make the champ more reliable.

Compared to divers, most assassins have a way out once they go in, as for divers, once their in, they are all in unless the support or the team managed to provide a life line for them

Nameless Voice1 votes

An ADC has to get in range? Most assassins are melee. That applies to them far more than ADCs.

XeroKimo1 votes

Yes and most assassins have trickery, stealth, fast moving gap closers that are the same if not larger than an average adc range

Lock On2 votes

Less risk? Are you KIDDING me xD?? You play mainly top it seems so you wouldn't understand, but 550 measly units while you're sitting on swifties and deadman's tp'ing in from behind or flanking us means I barely have the chance to kite you before being zoned out of the fight simply because one combo from Darius will kill me before I can lifesteal it back unless I'm like 7 kills on you, which is rarely the case anymore.

SpongebobIsLife5 votes

No one liked playing against the old lb either. I think this one could be resolved if they reduced tether range or increased tether damage but lowered passive damage.

EMP Sombra5 votes

Kinda sad to say that, but Leblanc rework revert won't ever happen. As someone who started playing her in S2 when i started playing LoL and picked her in thousands of my games over that time, I just don't find her THAT fun anymore. I mean yeah, it's my waifu and I will always play her no matter what they do with her but I just feel like that rework was a failure.

For me core aspect of Leblanc was her speed and ability to get out of fight in the blink of an eye. Sure this was frustrating to play against but she's so clunky now that it's meh to play her. Her early is more cancerous than ever before as she doesn't even have to poke her enemy anymore if she wants to burst him down. She just goes in and 1shot. They added her some waveclear which no Leblanc player ever asked for, and she doesn't even need it. It just takes from her power budget and make laning even easier for her because pushing waves used to be her weakness since her release. Also her lategame is as shitty as it's never been.

New Leblanc feels much easier to play as she doesn't need to think which spell to use first etc as her Sigil of Malice is her passive now and it's applied by ALL of her abilities. Also she's not limited to previous spell on ult anymore. Her ult clone is useless most of time unless you are playing against some dumb bronzies.

I think that Leblanc rework was a complete failure. It made the champ even more cancerous to play against, made her not as fun to play for her players mostly due to her delays and clunkiness, lowered her skillcap, destroyed her identity and added many unnecessary things to her simple kit.

Sorry for long post and my bad English.

JekyII And Hyde6 votes

[{quoted}](name=EMP Sombra,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e0qsJaXn,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2017-01-16T12:13:09.964+0000)

Kinda sad to say that, but Leblanc rework revert won't ever happen. As someone who started playing her in S2 when i started playing LoL and picked her in thousands of my games over that time, I just don't find her THAT fun anymore. I mean yeah, it's my waifu and I will always play her no matter what they do with her but I just feel like that rework was a failure.

For me core aspect of Leblanc was her speed and ability to get out of fight in the blink of an eye. Sure this was frustrating to play against but she's so clunky now that it's meh to play her. Her early is more cancerous than ever before as she doesn't even have to poke her enemy anymore if she wants to burst him down. She just goes in and 1shot. They added her some waveclear which no Leblanc player ever asked for, and she doesn't even need it. It just takes from her power budget and make laning even easier for her because pushing waves used to be her weakness since her release. Also her lategame is as shitty as it's never been.

New Leblanc feels much easier to play as she doesn't need to think which spell to use first etc as her Sigil of Malice is her passive now and it's applied by ALL of her abilities. Also she's not limited to previous spell on ult anymore. Her ult clone is useless most of time unless you are playing against some dumb bronzies.

I think that Leblanc rework was a complete failure. It made the champ even more cancerous to play against, made her not as fun to play for her players mostly due to her delays and clunkiness, lowered her skillcap, destroyed her identity and added many unnecessary things to her simple kit.

Sorry for long post and my bad English.

They should rework her in a different way. Like making her Q a skillshot instead of adding stupid ass delays and making her clunky af. It was change requested since her release but nooo, better add delays and make her feel like shit to play as. The did same with Ashe, adding delay to her Q made her much more meh to play (atleast for me). They did that to Nidalee as well by adding long cast time to her spear throw when it was instant before.

DarthFantasia1 votes

I totally agree. Reworked LeBlanc just isn't fun to play. She is so clunky now. They made her damage insanely high, but made her kit awful. Obviously as an assassin that is almost guaranteed dead if she gets hit by CC I want to have to wait forever to activate my passive damage or reuse my W. She sucks. Revert her rework.

PS-if you wanted to remove assassins burst, why can Rengar, Khazix, and Talon still one shot people? Riot can't balance for crap.

a special one4 votes

you've got 44% winrate on ur main champ and are gold 5. u suck at game u suck at lb and play since 2010? your opinion is relevant like traffic lights. and it is also wrong. so no. riot wont listen to stupid shit like this

Mafia LeBlanc3 votes

[{quoted}](name=FBI Officer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e0qsJaXn,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-01-15T22:24:30.906+0000)

you've got 44% winrate on ur main champ and are gold 5. u suck at game u suck at lb and play since 2010? your opinion is relevant like traffic lights. and it is also wrong. so no. riot wont listen to stupid shit like this

Lol what? Are you high?

https://s27.postimg.org/7tngfyznn/leb.png

Arakadia3 votes

He must be joking. He literally said traffic lights are irrelevant.

Lord Creazil4 votes

RIOT will never EVER revert a rework. Champion, item, tower change, dragon, plants etc. They just kinda poop out changes and say "deal with it we think it's neat".

Doozku4 votes

I find new leblanc better to play against. Atleast her damage isn't instant and I can flash it or get away.

Bouncemaster Zac3 votes

Upvoted. She needs either changed or decimated, because right now she's the literal definition of "no counterplay."

ModAcademy Kayn4 votes

Are you kidding? Did you even play against Leblanc before the Rework?

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Mafia LeBlanc

Pls bring back "Honorable Opponent"
Gameplay44 comments
163
votes
I'm going to be honest, I think people complain about Autofill too much.
Gameplay127 comments
121
votes
If Riot wants to add more strategic gameplay, add the dragon spawn order during pregame
Gameplay79 comments
76
votes
What is the meanest (legal) thing you've done to an enemy team to get a win?
Gameplay103 comments
62
votes
Why is Invisible Mode not a thing?
Gameplay26 comments
61
votes
Yasuo goes mid, and feeds 0/12/1 by the end of the game.
Gameplay96 comments
59
votes