This thread is for anyone who is Plat or higher to talk about Gameplay and Balance.

ChickenWrap·Sep 7, 2016·6 votes·1,935 views

Let's see if we can get a conversation started for once that isn't rife with very low tier players telling us that all our opinions are wrong, because those players know the most. They're the smartest, and that's why they play the worst.

First notion of business: Cho'Gath's state of balance.

I think he's broken. His 1:1 AP ratio Q, that 2.5 second Silence, and 900+ True Damage on one ability seems ridiculous considering how beefy he's allowed to be at the same time. He is the pinnacle of what you want in a mid or top laner when you already have an engage tank on your team. His peel is godlike, his damage is insane, and his utility is immeasurable. I vote he gets nerfed.

Update: Gameplay still has no idea what it's talking about. I am not surprised in the least. All I have done is repeat myself to 50 different people who refuse to actually look at the problem for what it is and all throw out the same sub-par counter-argument. Never change, Gameplay. Never change.

129 Comments

Malicious MetalSep 7, 201614 votes

Diamond here.

Cho'gath's fine.

He's been like this for ages and never been a real problem. You probably just got stomped by one of his mains

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dxRzTk6v,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-09-07T22:17:26.727+0000)

Diamond here.

Cho'gath's fine.

He's been like this for ages and never been a real problem. You probably just got stomped by one of his mains

Diamond here.

Cho'Gath isn't fine.

He's been like this for ages and has always been a huge problem even to the point where professional players started abusing him in tournaments. Losing once to a Cho is one thing, but I have evidence all over the damned place that says that he's broken. Just because you haven't dealt with a half-decent Cho doesn't mean that he's not overpowered.

https://gyazo.com/0cfbfab3dfbad8f5ccdd32512cd6fd68.jpg Do you see this? I played this game yesterday. Do you really think that this is a measure of a balanced character? He's been broken for many seasons and there are players out there who mained him to Master Tier because they know how overpowered he is. Just because you don't doesn't mean that he's not. You ignore every part about Cho's kit and simply say "Oh yes, if you dodge his Q it's fine!" But you don't know that his Q isn't the problem.

Malicious MetalSep 7, 20169 votes

Cho is completely skillshot reliant as well as being easily kited.

Vayne is the bane of his existence and his entire success relies on him being able to chain his abilities together and hope the enemy just dies to one rotation. If that fails he's toast-

MarshbouySep 7, 20164 votes

If that fails he's toast-

nah man you forgot about is 110279438 damage autos. kappa

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dxRzTk6v,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2016-09-07T22:28:31.976+0000)

Cho is completely skillshot reliant as well as being easily kited.

Vayne is the bane of his existence and his entire success relies on him being able to chain his abilities together and hope the enemy just dies to one rotation. If that fails he's toast-

How is one skill-shot being "completely skillshot reliant"? Are you assuming Cho plays a solo game? He doesn't. You don't pick him for shits and giggles. You pick him when you have a tank that has any form of engage and then Cho becomes an unstoppable god-machine. His success comes from all the damage and utility he offers to a team (with or without the hard engage tank. If you lack one, you're on peel duty). Q is not hard to lane, W removes the entire enemy team from the fight for almost three seconds, and R is a one-way ticket to the safety of your ADC. It seems like you're under the assumption that Cho'Gath spends all game split pushing or something and doesn't build Protobelt and run Flash. Chaining abilities doesn't even matter. Yes, one W+R kills someone, but one W by itself is enough to straight-up win a teamfight.

BeldairSep 7, 20162 votes

His silence doesn't remove the adc who focuses on basics as well as tanks or bruisers who also use basics primarily..

And, since it is such a low duration...Cho's team doesn't get a lot of time to capitalize on that.

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

His silence doesn't remove the adc who focuses on basics as well as tanks or bruisers who also use basics primarily..

And, since it is such a low duration...Cho's team doesn't get a lot of time to capitalize on that.

Yet his Silence does half of the ADC's health bar. 2.5 seconds is literally the length of a teamfight.

BeldairSep 7, 20162 votes

His silence is shorter than a Morg dark binding....

BeldairSep 7, 20166 votes

This thread is for wanna be plats to down low tier for wanting to state their own opinions.

Cho'gath has clear strengths and weaknesses.

I completely agree with Malicious Metal.

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This thread is for wanna be plats to down low tier for wanting to state their own opinions.

Cho'gath has clear strengths and weaknesses.

I completely agree with Malicious Metal.

Unfortunately, Malicious Metal is wrong, and since you're agreeing with him, so are you. You aren't looking at the real issues here and simply saying "Oh yes I sometimes don't have problems with Cho so he's not overpowered."

This thread was for Plat+ to discuss things, but it just got invaded by a bunch of Silvers like usual.

MissMikasaSep 7, 20161 votes

Maybe if you realize all the negative outcome of your threads is why no Plats or above want to even talk to you because of the way you treat lower tier players.

ChickenWrapSep 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Maybe if you realize all the negative outcome of your threads is why no Plats or above want to even talk to you because of the way you treat lower tier players.

Or maybe there's just none that go on Gamepaly. This entire board is the butt-end of a meme.

I only say these things because they said them to me first. The "Bronze and Silvers are trash" is satire. It's also a really old League meme. While I still think they have some right to talk on things like this, I don't believe they know that much about balance at higher levels of play, so everything they say is centered around low level on play.

MissMikasaSep 8, 20161 votes

Dude. Learn to recognize when people are just baiting you to tilt or rage. Most of the bronze and silvers who are attacking you is because they want to get you to tilt. The rest of us, who actually are respectful human beings-and actually have good opinions about League play-are not being like them and you are still attacking us because you think we are like the others.

Well, guess what? We are NOT.

If Malicious Metal and others actually say he isn't a problem at higher level of play, and some good respectful SIlvers and Bronzies say he isn't a problem at lower level of play- then why can't you get the memo that** HE ISN'T THAT MUCH OF A PROBLEM?!**

Good Lord.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

SecondChanceHeroSep 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Dude. Learn to recognize when people are just baiting you to tilt or rage. Most of the bronze and silvers who are attacking you is because they want to get you to tilt. The rest of us, who actually are respectful human beings-and actually have good opinions about League play-are not being like them and you are still attacking us because you think we are like the others.

Well, guess what? We are NOT.

If Malicious Metal and others actually say he isn't a problem at higher level of play, and some good respectful SIlvers and Bronzies say he isn't a problem at lower level of play- then why can't you get the memo that** HE ISN'T THAT MUCH OF A PROBLEM?!**

Good Lord.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

MM also stopped posting in this thread the second he understood what it's true purpose was.... And that isn't really anything to do with cho...

It's really surprising how few could puzzle that out.

ChickenWrapSep 8, 20162 votes

{quoted}

MM also stopped posting in this thread the second he understood what it's true purpose was.... And that isn't really anything to do with cho...

It's really surprising how few could puzzle that out.

(I mean, Cho is still legitimately broken. He's sleeper OP and I'm waiting for people to figure that one out. Like, I'm being 100% honest here.)

Sightless66Sep 8, 20166 votes

This looks like it might have been an interesting idea for a thread, but you really picked a terrible first topic. Given how few people at all skill levels consider Cho to be particularly strong, and given how he's having no real impact on either the challenger scene or the pro scene, this really, really came across as you trying to push an agenda against a champion you personally dislike. And don't get me wrong, it's fine to dislike him, but this topic just made your thread look like any random Boards complaint thread, instead of what you actually wanted it to be.

I mean, I get that you think Cho is broken, but you do have to realize that your opinion is in a very small minority, and it's not a popular opinion among other high-skill players. Surely starting the first discussion with something a bit more mainstream would have been smarter? Try and convince people of the more niche stuff later once you've convinced people that you actually know what you're talking about? Or at the very least, if you really do have to start with Cho, maybe at least address the counterarguments someone might have in the OP so you can convince people that you've actually thought this out, instead of just taking a complete hardline and making yourself look like any salty Boards player. You know, take a look at his low winrate, low winrate even with players who have 50+ games, low competitive playrate, low ranked playrate, and explain why you think those huge pieces of data shouldn't matter. And if that's really too much, at least don't go for statements like " has always been a huge problem even to the point where professional players started abusing him in tournaments" at a time when his competitive presence is virtually nil, or just posting the results of one of your random games and calling that good evidence (one game is never, ever good evidence of balance). Neither of those fly.

I like the concept here. I would have liked to see this kind of thread take off, but everyone who isn't as bonedead stupid as me is going to nope right out of this thread after they see the first few posts. I think you just ensured that it never will because you really wanted to complain about a champion that isn't a balance problem. That's disappointing.

SecondChanceHeroSep 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This looks like it might have been an interesting idea for a thread, but you really picked a terrible first topic. Given how few people at all skill levels consider Cho to be particularly strong, and given how he's having no real impact on either the challenger scene or the pro scene, this really, really came across as you trying to push an agenda against a champion you personally dislike. And don't get me wrong, it's fine to dislike him, but this topic just made your thread look like any random Boards complaint thread, instead of what you actually wanted it to be.

The choice of cho was purposeful. He does have a personal dislike and opinion for the champ that is expressed accurately here, but this thread has nothing to do with cho really.

I mean, I get that you think Cho is broken, but you do have to realize that your opinion is in a very small minority, and it's not a popular opinion among other high-skill players. Surely starting the first discussion with something a bit more mainstream would have been smarter? Try and convince people of the more niche stuff later once you've convinced people that you actually know what you're talking about? Or at the very least, if you really do have to start with Cho, maybe at least address the counterarguments someone might have in the OP so you can convince people that you've actually thought this out, instead of just taking a complete hardline and making yourself look like any salty Boards player. You know, take a look at his low winrate, low winrate even with players who have 50+ games, low competitive playrate, low ranked playrate, and explain why you think those huge pieces of data shouldn't matter. And if that's really too much, at least don't go for statements like " has always been a huge problem even to the point where professional players started abusing him in tournaments" at a time when his competitive presence is virtually nil, or just posting the results of one of your random games and calling that good evidence (one game is never, ever good evidence of balance). Neither of those fly.

The first thread up did indeed address more meta champs, yas and irelia, and was widely panned and downvotes because the post was humorous in nature and it was too difficult for many to understand he was being humorous about the issues with both champs.

I like the concept here. I would have liked to see this kind of thread take off. I think you just ensured that it never will because you really wanted to complain about a champion that isn't a balance problem. That's disappointing.

The real purpose of this thread was to show why many similar threads never take off. The first thread got thrashed and dashed by nay saying low level players. So why not make an even more outlandish thread that just proves low level players are out to nay say? That was when this thread was made and the hypothesis that balance can rarely, if ever, be discussed seriously with low level players on this board was proven correct. Essentially this thread wound up being a social experiment.

That is not to say this always happens with threads of this nature, but it is a very common occurrence. It generally takes a significant amount of up front group backing and start up to get threads like these to recieve and appropriate response. Hatedaddy threads come to mind and those are usually successful because many of us choose to pool our resources and back HateDaddy who is very good at expressing the opinions of many players in concise and constructive ways. This thread serves as the antithesis of those threads and shows why that up front multi person support from other members of the community (particularly the high level portion) is required to get similar threads to recieve the proper attention and begin the proper kind of debate.

In any case, thanks for sharing with us as you've provided a prime example here at the end of exactly what we need at the beginning so that threads of this nature can spur the kind of discussion that helps our game and community grow.

Sightless66Sep 8, 20164 votes

The real purpose of this thread was to show why many similar threads never take off. The first thread got thrashed and dashed by nay saying low level players. So why not make an even more outlandish thread that just proves low level players are out to nay say?

This doesn't work well when your thread is getting thrashed and bashed by everyone, high level players included, because you picked a terrible topic that deserves criticism. Of course people are jumping on his thread and criticizing it: The primary thing that this thread proves to me is that OP has a poor grasp on Cho's balance, and that people will take him to task for this.

I mean, I don't understand the chain of logic here. How does people criticizing a bad argument prove that you can't have a serious discussion with low level players?

So why not make an even more outlandish thread that just proves low level players are out to nay say

That makes no sense. Of course people are going to nay say if you make a terrible argument while asserting that you know better than them. Are we expected to not criticize bad arguments?

It generally takes a significant amount of up front group backing and start up to get threads like these to recieve and appropriate response.

I agree with you, and I do think it's a problem with the boards are generally a terrible place for discussion, but this thread really proves nothing about this. It only proves that bad arguments will be criticzed, and people who take a hard line on defending bad arguments while criticizing other people will be mocked. Taking anything more than that from this is completely unjustified.

This thread serves as the antithesis of those threads and shows why that up front multi person support from other members of the community

If he had a good argument, or made any attempt to actually sell his argument and convince people instead of just asserting his opinion, I might agree. However, without that, I prefer the explanation that poorly-justified and judgmental arguments will be criticized.

SecondChanceHeroSep 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This doesn't work well when your thread is getting thrashed and bashed by everyone, high level players included, because you picked a terrible topic that deserves criticism. Of course people are jumping on his thread and criticizing it: The primary thing that this thread proves to me is that OP has a poor grasp on Cho's balance, and that people will take him to task for this.

It's not my thread mate.

I mean, I don't understand the chain of logic here. How does people criticizing a bad argument prove that you can't have a serious discussion with low level players?

The point was that the topic isn't important. If it's not part of the hive mind agenda of low level players it doesn't register.

That makes no sense. Of course people are going to nay say if you make a terrible argument while asserting that you know better than them. Are we expected to not criticize bad arguments?

Good arguments and poor arguments don't matter. Hatedaddy proved this once by posting the same thread word for word once. It was massively downvotes and thrashed by mostly low level players the first time around. The second time around I boosted its upvote total using 15 smurf accounts and started providing commentary and debate alongside hatedaddy. This time the thread lasted for a whole week and actual discussion occurred. The difference in several people of a high ranking all working together on a thread tends to be the only way a thread gains any traction unless it caters specifically to whatever low level players are whining about at any given time.

I agree with you, and I do think it's a problem with the boards are generally a terrible place for discussion, but this thread really proves nothing about this. It only proves that bad arguments will be criticzed, and people who take a hard line on defending bad arguments while criticizing other people will be mocked. Taking anything more than that from this is completely unjustified.

You'd have to check the first thread to have a comparison that not only are poor and good arguments meaningless because of how vastly outnumbered by the low level community we are, but obvious satire is something that also can't seem to understand even when it's dead obvious. I mean I literally had to point out the real intention for this thread for most people to understand something that was obvious staring them right in the face. This further proved that many will ignore the actual intent of a thread simply to disagree with something brought up in it but not related to its purpose.

If he had a good argument, or made any attempt to actually sell his argument and convince people instead of just asserting his opinion, I might agree. However, without that, I prefer the explanation that poorly-justified and judgmental arguments will be criticized.

Well no one will dispute that, if you want good honest progressive debate the rules of debate need to be followed. The pair of chickenwrap posts proved that regardless of him following or not following that the rest of the boards simply won't.

In the end the thing that's most clear is that it takes a lot of work and effort to craft a post that can be well received by the board masses because, for the most part, they don't want progressive discussion, they want some one to agree with them that they are right to be whining about what are usually silly issues. This makes this particular sub board mostly useless 99% of the time and thus it's usually safe to entirely ignore anything you find in it. One or two posts every day are usually worthwhile, if that many. And the best threads tend to require a group effort just to get off the ground so that proper game and community growth can occur. That's just kind of the way it's always been and this thread was an attempt to illustrate these points.

I mean, CW's personal opinion really is cho is op, and it's debatable. Just not in this board because of the crowd that frequents it.

Sightless66Sep 8, 20163 votes

It's not my thread mate.

I'm not saying it was. I know you aren't the OP. "Your thread" is just a general descriptor here. It could have just as easily been "his thread" "her thread" "the thread", or whatever else.

The point was that the topic isn't important.

And my point is that no matter how true that is, it wasn't proven by this post. The claim here is that people will downvote and jump on threads for things that aren't related to the quality of the thread. That isn't proved by a thread that gets jumped on because it legitimately deserves to be. It would be proved by a post that was actually good, but got mocked anyway. It would be proved by someone copying a downvoted thread word-for-word, upvoting it with smurfs, and then seeing people agree with it. It's not proved bv a thread that starts off drawing a hard line on an almost provably false premise and placing judgment on anyone who disagrees. That kind of post does not open up debate, so seeing it get criticized is the expected result.

If the expected result of a poorly made post is to be criticized, and then someone makes a poorly made post and it gets criticized, it's not proof of a problem.

the pair of chickenwrap posts

The fact that there is a pair of posts is completely and utterly irrelevant because the argument is not helped at all by this second post. If he made a good argument in one thread and people criticized it for random shit, then that makes a point by itself. People also criticizing this post that legitimately deserves to be criticized doesn't contribute to the argument.

You claim that his first post was legitimately good and people ignored it or mocked it anyway. That proves the point you're making here. Thing is, this one wasn't a good post. People mocking and ignoring it was the best option.

I mean, I don't see how this post in particular contributes anything at all to the argument that the first post doesn't prove by itself. How exactly does people criticizing a post for being legitimately poorly made, poorly justified and very judgmental support the argument that people won't debate on the boards?

this thread was an attempt to illustrate these points.

I think it was a very poorly conceived attempt to illustrate this point. I don't think any of the points you made are logically supported by people criticizing a very poorly made post. If he was actually trying to start a good discussion and couldn't, that would say something. If he made a terrible discussion and got a bunch of smurfs to upvote it,

Just to make this clear: I agree with everything you said about how the Boards suck. I just don't agree that this post demonstrates that in any way.

I mean, CW's personal opinion really is cho is op, and it's debatable. Just not in this board because of the crowd that frequents it.

Yeah, it could be debatable, but the way he opened up this thread shut down all discussion. He made every effort to ensure that discussion was impossible, and even just looking at the comments, people tried to say he was wrong and make arguments against him. That's not proof that discussion is impossible in the Boards. It's proof that bad posts and poor arguments draw criticism. Nothing more. Nothing less.

MarshbouySep 7, 20165 votes

Let's see if we can get a conversation started for once that isn't rife with very low tier players telling us that all our opinions are wrong, because those players know the most. They're the smartest, and that's why they play the worst.

Cho'Gath's state of balance.

I think he's broken.

lol

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20161 votes

[deleted]

MarshbouySep 7, 20165 votes

Your entire argument is "you don't understand, your silver". grats dude.

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Your entire argument is "you don't understand, your silver". grats dude.

No, my entire argument is stated directly in the OP and you are choosing to ignore it.

MarshbouySep 7, 20163 votes

You want me to deconstruct your argument? ok.

I think he's broken.

well you are incorrect. He's not.

His 1:1 AP ratio Q

That has a massive indicator and is easily dodged by anyone with item 1001

that 2.5 second Silence

OK? malzahar also has a 2 second silence at a longer distance. It's part of his wombo combo kit, and it also has a pretty huge CD.

and 900+ True Damage on one ability seems ridiculous considering how beefy he's allowed to be at the same time.

In order to be dealing 900 plus true damage then he would need to be building pretty heavy on the ap. it's base damage at rank 3 is 650 with 70% ap scaling, so taking the lowest number and doing some math he would need 900-650=300 300*1.3=390. 390 is a lot of ap to be building on a tank. It doesn't leave much room for tank stats.

considering how beefy he's allowed to be at the same time.

may i point out that having a lot of health and no resistances does not mean "beefy". The only tank stat's the cho gath had in that game you posted were the 60 MR from item 3001 . Any competent ADC would have torn that cho gath to pieces.

He's also incredibly immobile, almost the very definition of immobile. Sure item 3152 gives him some mobility but it's dash range is very, very short.

Hows that for a rebuttal?

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You want me to deconstruct your argument? ok.

well you are incorrect. He's not.

You're incorrect, sir.

That has a massive indicator and is easily dodged by anyone with

You're implying a decent Cho couldn't land it?

OK? malzahar also has a 2 second silence at a longer distance. It's part of his wombo combo kit, and it also has a pretty huge CD.

Malzahar's has a cast time and is a line, not a cone. Cho's is more potent and more powerful.

In order to be dealing 900 plus true damage then he would need to be building pretty heavy on the ap. it's base damage at rank 3 is 650 with 70% ap scaling, so taking the lowest number and doing some math he would need 900-650=300 300*1.3=390. 390 is a lot of ap to be building on a tank. It doesn't leave much room for tank stats.

Well RoA and Rylai's both give a flat +100 AP, so it's not too far-fetched. Build two tanky/AP items and you're pretty much set to do almost 900 damage with proper runes and masteries.

may i point out that having a lot of health and no resistances does not mean "beefy". The only tank stat's the cho gath had in that game you posted were the 60 MR from . Any competent ADC would have torn that cho gath to pieces.

You don't need to go full AP. I chose to go full AP in that game because I could. You can easily build Abyssal, Zhonya's, RoA, Rylai's, and say a Zz'rot Portal and you're now dealing tons of damage and you're very tanky.

He's also incredibly immobile, almost the very definition of immobile. Sure gives him some mobility but it's dash range is very, very short.

Immobility does not make a champion bad and if it did then people would use it to say that Zyra, Brand, Annie, and Vel'Koz are bad, but they don't because they're not and it's silly to bring up as a counter-argument.

Hows that for a rebuttal?

Lackluster.

MarshbouySep 7, 20162 votes

You're implying a decent Cho couldn't land it?

no im implying that a decent player could dodge. If that means you aren't a decent player then so be it.

Malzahar's has a cast time and is a line, not a cone. Cho's is more potent and more powerful.

that's pretty subjecitve. Cho needs to be very close to have a surefire chance of landing it.

Well RoA and Rylai's both give a flat +100 AP, so it's not too far-fetched. Build two tanky/AP items and you're pretty much set to do almost 900 damage with proper runes and masteries.

proper runes and masteries being the extra 30 true damage possible...? Even with two tank AP items you are only dealing roughly 140(plus the 30 true damage from runes/masteries). 650+180 is 820. A good 80 true damage (110ish ap) off.

You don't need to go full AP. I chose to go full AP in that game because I could. You can easily build Abyssal, Zhonya's, RoA, Rylai's, and say a Zz'rot Portal and you're now dealing tons of damage and you're very tanky.

And you are still hideously immobile. the 100 armor from zhonyas and zzrot is barely considered tanky. With armor runes and base stats you are going to be around maybe 160. Any ADC building item 3036 would melt you like butter.

Immobility does not make a champion bad and if it did then people would use it to say that Zyra, Brand, Annie, and Vel'Koz are bad, but they don't because they're not and it's silly to bring up as a counter-argument.

When did i say it made him bad? I said it makes him balanced. Not to mention -zyra has huge AOE crowd control with her R and E. -brand has insane AOE damage, some of the highest in the game -annie has an instant AOE stun with her ultimate along with % damage reduction. -Velkoz has true damage shred and all of his abilities are AOE. Pretty non comparable. They all have something in their kit to make up for their immobility.

Lackluster.

no. you are just a, and i hate to use this word, but a boosted animal.

SecondChanceHeroSep 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

no. you are just a, and i hate to use this word, but a boosted animal.

Woah, pump the breaks mate. If you really think something this silly go watch his stream. It's up right now. He's clearly not and the stream is actually fairly entertaining.

Furthermore, since you've gone waaaayyyyy overboard I'll let you in in a secret: the primary intent of this thread wasn't anything to do with cho. It was to see if a bunch of lower level players would act like the foolish people they tend to be and get rude based on the assumption CW wasn't being the least bit satirical. There are about 100 of you who have done nothing but confirm that many low level players act rudely without comprehending the actual issue being discussed.

This thread isn't about cho. It's about the way low level players act on this sub board. And everyone took that bait and ran with it. Proving, beyond even a shadow of a doubt, that many, perhaps even most, low level players have no business posting here because of their attitudes and general rudeness.

I mean. It was REALLY obvious what the intent of the thread was. It's right in the title. And yet 90% of the responses completely ignored it and went for the jugular.

Pretty damn funny.

MarshbouySep 8, 20161 votes

your post is terrible.

since you've gone waaaayyyyy overboard

calling someone a boosted animal is hardly, HARDLY, going overboard. I think starting off your thread insulting the vast majority of the playerbase is slightly worse then calling someone a boosted animal. stop trying to be some sam pepper wannabe

warpenguin555Sep 7, 20163 votes

its a miracle he made it out of silver lol

MarshbouySep 7, 20162 votes

IKR. If this is the kind of stuff that get's into diamond then i deserve challenger xD

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

its a miracle he made it out of silver lol

Or maybe I'm just good =)

CaptnJakSparrowSep 7, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Or maybe I'm just good =)

Negative winrate. Good. Pick one.

SecondChanceHeroSep 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Negative winrate. Good. Pick one.

Its not like we ever give him ridiculously stupid and silly builds to try in diamond and then he actually goes and does these incredibly foolish things or anything.

Oh.

Wait...

CaptnJakSparrowSep 7, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Its not like we ever give him ridiculously stupid and silly builds to try in diamond and then he actually goes and does these incredibly foolish things or anything.

Oh.

Wait...

You act like that's actually changed anything since he's been struggling for the longest time.

SecondChanceHeroSep 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You act like that's actually changed anything since he's been struggling for the longest time.

Bouncing between d5 and d3 isn't struggling per se. Its more that he's just capped his ranking based on the champion he plays most often and due some what to his skill level. I mean, there's not much farther up one can get on the ladder. And if you add in that he will entertain or whims on a regular basis? Well. Just kinda figures really.

S'all I'm sayin.

CaptnJakSparrowSep 7, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Bouncing between d5 and d3 isn't struggling per se. Its more that he's just capped his ranking based on the champion he plays most often and due some what to his skill level. I mean, there's not much farther up one can get on the ladder. And if you add in that he will entertain or whims on a regular basis? Well. Just kinda figures really.

S'all I'm sayin.

It's not just D5. He's been demoted repeatedly, and even needed yolo duod back into diamond since his MMR isn't even diamond anymore, he's just kind of hanging out there like a P5 player playing an entire division underneath him lol.

For ex: He's not even playing against diamonds really anymore. His opponents are all plat 3/4.

As for his "troll building." His builds aren't much different from any other Shaco player.

fact of the matter is, he only wins when the enemy doesn't know anything at all about his champion. That's pretty much it.

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Negative winrate. Good. Pick one.

Made it to Diamond 2, must be worth something =)

RalanrSep 7, 20163 votes

With all the boosting this season, ranks mean nothing to a lot of people.

And I have never cared about rank. I've cared about logical arguments that do not pull the rank card to gain the upperhand. I honestly feel that the smart people of this board have a similar viewpoint.

GULAG 4 USep 7, 20162 votes

^agreed. Rank means how good you are at the game. Not exactly what you understand about it. And saying Cho OP... You're a fucking boosted animal.

MissMikasaSep 7, 20163 votes

It honestly irks me to my core when people pull the rank card. It's so rude and not to mention just childish to use it as a tactic to get the upper hand like you said.

JbelsSep 7, 20164 votes

We aren't all like that, but stereotype away...

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=NMF Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dxRzTk6v,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-09-07T22:11:03.164+0000)

We aren't all like that, but stereotype away...

I mean, so far all I've seen is exactly that. Bronze and Silver players telling me that everything I have to say is retarded because all you guys on Gameplay do is circlejerk one or two things and ignore the huge, glaring problems this game has because "Oh Sona!" "Oh Yasuo!" "Oh Zed!"

JbelsSep 7, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I mean, so far all I've seen is exactly that. Bronze and Silver players telling me that everything I have to say is retarded because all you guys on Gameplay do is circlejerk one or two things and ignore the huge, glaring problems this game has because "Oh Sona!" "Oh Yasuo!" "Oh Zed!"

Sona and Zed aren't issues, but Tank Yasuo was an issue that needed to be addressed. That issue has now been addressed. As for Cho'gath, I only feel like Cho'gath is super oppressive when played by people who understand his powerspikes and strengths and weaknesses. To be fair, that's usually how it feels to play against anyone who has mastered their champ. I don't feel like he is not balanced, and his plat+ winrate does not seem to indicate he is broken, but I could be wrong

GULAG 4 USep 7, 20162 votes

Yeah but the baords are not just bitching about tank. They're bitching about everytihing and anything about yasuo.

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=NMF Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dxRzTk6v,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-09-07T22:16:09.933+0000)

Sona and Zed aren't issues, but Tank Yasuo was an issue that needed to be addressed. That issue has now been addressed. As for Cho'gath, I only feel like Cho'gath is super oppressive when played by people who understand his powerspikes and strengths and weaknesses. To be fair, that's usually how it feels to play against anyone who has mastered their champ. I don't feel like he is not balanced, and his plat+ winrate does not seem to indicate he is broken, but I could be wrong

They were pretty big issues for you guys before.

Cho's powerspike is forever with almost no downsides to his kit. Winrate is not a direct measure of strength a champion has, and it never will be. It helps, but it's not a direct measure. If I say this, and if Riot has said this, why don't you think it's true?

GULAG 4 USep 7, 20163 votes

No downsides to his kit? So his lack of engage and 0 mobility is not one?

ChickenWrapSep 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No downsides to his kit? So his lack of engage and 0 mobility is not one?

You act as though mobility makes a huge difference in this game. Half of the champions being played right now have little to no mobility in their kits, and Cho has the power to take away that mobility while he kills them.

His Q is an engage, and is not hard to land, but I ask you this: Why do you feel like Cho'Gath should be the champion who is engaging? That's like saying "Oh, well Vel'Koz has no engage and no mobility therefore Vel'Koz is terrible as a champion!". That's absurd, isn't it?

GULAG 4 USep 7, 20162 votes

I didn't say he should be engaging so don't put words in my mouth.... It does make a huge difference. (Mobility creep).

That's why half of the roster doesn't sees play, the extremely high mobility atm just puts certain champs in the dust

Mordekaiser Tryndamere and others.

RalanrSep 7, 20163 votes

{quoted}

You act as though mobility makes a huge difference in this game. Half of the champions being played right now have little to no mobility in their kits, and Cho has the power to take away that mobility while he kills them.

His Q is an engage, and is not hard to land, but I ask you this: Why do you feel like Cho'Gath should be the champion who is engaging? That's like saying "Oh, well Vel'Koz has no engage and no mobility therefore Vel'Koz is terrible as a champion!". That's absurd, isn't it?

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/127095609349.jpg

Just...Just stop. It's hard to take you seriously even if you are diamond if you are saying that.