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[Rework Concept] Tryndamere, Fury of the Avarosan

The Lost Marbles··10 votes·1,696 views

My Issues with Live Tryndamere

  • His current predominant play-style of "ignore team-fights entirely and just shove a single lane endlessly" is extremely unfitting for a battle-hardened warrior of the unforgiving north.

  • Free critical strike chance is really bad design, basically equating to "there's a 35% chance that you lose lane to Tryndamere no matter who you pick or how either of you play". This is on top of the free AD that his Q provides, which by itself admittedly isn't as egregious.

  • His kit is designed to essentially win a fight or ignore a fight that he can't win, but with little actual thought behind it. With a fairly good mana-less heal, a pretty significant non-targeted flat AD reduction that also acts as a scouting tool due to its cast mechanics, a non-targeted dash that he can use to escape most unfavorable situations, and the ability to just ignore death completely for 5 seconds.

What I Wanted to Achieve with this Concept

  • Improve his kit's ability to interact and fight with enemy champions rather than bulldozing turrets and ignoring any attempts to stop him after completely cheesing his first few levels. This doesn't mean completely killing his split-pushing, but rather making other options viable and attractive alternatives.

  • Shave off his archaically-designed un-interactivity mechanics and hopefully offer a more interesting play style that makes Tryndamere feel more like an angry warlord with a huge sword.

  • Maintain Undying Rage's ability to ignore death, but add a sense of decision making to it. As much as I dislike the ability, it IS iconic to Tryndamere and I figure I may as well try to preserve it somehow.

  • Preserve the design parallels that Tryndamere and Aatrox have.

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Passive: Tempered Fury

Tryndamere gains 5 Fury when he lands basic attacks, and 1 Fury for every 1% of his Current Health that he receives in damage whenever he's damaged by an enemy champion or monster. Tryndamere's Fury rapidly decays if he's been out of combat for at least 8 seconds.

At 100 Fury, Tryndamere enters Awakened Fury for 5 seconds, removing all active crowd control from himself on activation and gaining bonus Attack Damage, Tenacity, and Slow Resistance for the duration.

When Awakened Fury ends, Tryndamere cools off for 8 seconds, during which his Fury decays and can't be built back up.

Bonus Attack Damage: 15% / 18% / 21% / 24% / 27% / 30% AD Bonus Tenacity and Slow Resistance: 20% / 23% / 26% / 29% / 32% / 35% Scaling @ Levels: 1 / 4 / 7 / 10 / 13 / 16

  • Revised Fury mechanics ahoy. Also, his abilities can generate Fury too, so his passive's not the only source of it. That said, generating Fury based on how much Current Health he loses when taking damage gives Tryndamere a reason to stick with a more glass cannon build, since taking more damage per hit means more potential Fury generation.

  • A tankier build is also possible, with cooldown reduction to focus more on Tryndamere's abilities for Fury generation.

  • Awakened Fury is a window of power that Tryndamere's enemies need to be mindful of when fighting him, especially with their crowd control since he'll break free from it once his Fury maxes. This also makes it more of a parallel to Aatrox's new passive, just as their old passives had their similarities.

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Q: Barbaric Blow

Range: 475 Cooldown: 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8

Active: Tryndamere performs a crushing strike on his next basic attack after a brief wind-up, increasing all of the attack's damage by 10% and dealing it to all enemies within a small area in front of him.

Tryndamere gains 10 Fury for each enemy champion or large monster damaged by Barbaric Blow, and 5 Fury for each monster.

Barbaric Blow resets Tryndamere's attack timer on cast, and its wind-up scales down with his bonus Attack Speed.

Barbaric Blow's cooldown is reduced by 1 second whenever Tryndamere damages an enemy champion with a basic attack, or 0.5 seconds versus monsters.

Barbaric Blow's area of effect is fixed as Tryndamere winds up, and as such the attack can be evaded. The damage amplification applies to the attack's base damage, including critical strikes, as well as any on-hit effects. Spellblade effects as well as on-hit Magic Damage are also applied and amplified by Barbaric Blow.

  • A new heavy-hitting attack for Tryndamere to bring to fights, so he has more to do than just right-clicking all game. This ability can see use and functionality with a variety of builds, with things like BotRK, critical builds, or even AP Tryndamere. You can even go Trinity Force if you're feeling ambitious.

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W: Warlord's Challenge

Range: 800 Cooldown: 18 / 17 / 16 / 15 / 14

Active: Tryndamere raises his sword and channels for 0.75 seconds, challenging all visible enemy champions in a wide area in front of him. During the channel, Tryndamere takes 75% reduced damage and cannot be interrupted by crowd control, and reveals his position if he's in brush.

When the channel ends, Tryndamere gains Fury for each champion that has answered the challenge by moving towards him. If Awakened Fury is active, its duration is increased for each answering champion instead.

Enemies that back down from the challenge by maintaining their distance or moving away from Tryndamere are Slowed and have their Attack Speed reduced by 40% for 2 seconds.

Warlord's Challenge cannot be cast if Tryndamere is cooling off.

Slow: 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60%

The bonuses granted to Tryndamere by enemies answering the challenge have diminishing returns as follows (per champion);

_ Fury: 20 / 36 / 48 / 56 / 60 Awakened Fury Duration: 0.75 + 1 / 1.8 / 2.4 / 2.8 / 3 Seconds_

  • Essentially a more engaging version of his current W. Tryndamere readies himself for a fight the more people challenge him by bolstering his Fury, while cowards briefly lose the will to battle. Best part is that they can keep the chicken icon with this. The ability is also useful as a quick damage mitigation tool, similar to Yi's Meditate or Fiora's Riposte.

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E: Ruination

Range: 700 Cooldown: 13

Active: Tryndamere breaks into a spinning charge towards a targeted location, dealing Physical Damage to all enemies in his path (reduced to 66.6% versus minions) and stopping if he hits an enemy champion or terrain.

If Tryndamere hits an enemy champion with Ruination, he gains up to 40 Fury and reduces Ruination's cooldown by up to 40%, based on the distance Tryndamere covered before being stopped.

Physical Damage: 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+75% Bonus AD) (+90% AP) Minion Damage: 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 (+50% Bonus AD) (+60% AP) Ruination's dash speed increases based on Tryndamere's bonus Attack Speed.

  • A new spin on his old... spin. Can't cross terrain anymore because a cheap escape just doesn't sound Tryndamere, but now has perks to being used against enemy champions. Also has some fluidity scaling from his Attack Speed like Q does, because that's a miniature theme here.

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R: Undying Rage

Cooldown: 250 / 200 / 150

Passive: If Tryndamere would take lethal damage during Awakened Fury, his rage instead become reignited, refreshing Awakened Fury's duration and preventing his Health from falling below a certain amount for the duration. Undying Rage then goes on a 60% reduced cooldown.

Active: Tryndamere gives in to his rage, instantly gaining 100 Fury and entering Awakened Fury, during which his Health cannot be reduced below a certain amount.

Undying Rage cannot be cast during Awakened Fury.

Minimum Health: 30 / 50 / 70

When Undying Rage is off cooldown, it's displayed as a red-tinted version of the Guardian Angel swirls around Tryndamere. Undying Rage cannot be cast when Tryndamere is affected by crowd control that would prevent its casting.

  • A slight re-imaging of Tryndamere's ability to temporarily ignore death through sheer rage. The active version still exists as a panic button if you don't think your Fury will do the job on its own, but is on a far higher cooldown.

38 Comments

Corvo Attano2 votes

Seems pretty lit

The Lost Marbles2 votes

I like to think that this overall design gives Tryndamere an actual play-style and not "walk down top lane and jackhammer everything to death, ignoring any attempts to stop you until your ult runs out, at which point you derp on out of there by spinning through a wall".

His current game plan is literally to be even more frustrating than Singed, without providing any of the humor that Singed does. Also with actual kill pressure from the get-go because up to 35% free crit chance passively is such wonderful design.

My grievances with Trynd's current kit aside, here's some insight on my concept.

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The passive captures Tryndamere's character and aesthetics into his gameplay. That giant sword that he has to literally drag behind him isn't just for show, after all. Slow but powerful swings, benefiting minimally from his bonus Attack Speed while gaining more raw power to pick up the slack. Essentially a different flavor of Jhin's passive, but without a completely fixed AS because that would feel bad on a melee champion.

The Fury mechanic was completely revamped to interact with attempts by the enemy to slow or deter Tryndamere. He has some ways to build Fury himself as well, so he's not completely high and dry versus enemies with minimal CC. It's a clear window of strength wherein stopping him feels like a much more daunting task. I wonder if maybe it needs a perk to make it still good versus CC-less champions in lane, though, like a heal or something.

(As an aside note about the bonus AS functionality, Thresh has a similar interaction with bonus Attack Speed, where his attack wind-up is only reduced by 0.25% per 1% bonus AS.)

Q is exactly what it sounds like, an AoE basic attack that gains further increased damage in exchange for having a small delay. As noted above, it applies magic damage too, for people wanting to do AP Tryndamere. Even if there's no AP-scaling heal in his kit anymore.

W is basically a less stupid version of his current W, utilizing the new kit mechanics.

E isn't too big a departure from the usual Spindamere, dealing similar damage. It travels slower, though it gains speed based on Tryndamere's bonus AS, the idea there being that AS = arm strength and this ability relies on Trynd's arm strength to spin the blade. Most notably, it can't cross walls anymore, so instead it has a cooldown refunding mechanic to emphasize combat use.

The ultimate is a bit different from the norm, being purely a passive effect. I think it's unique, though, modifying and improving Tryndamere's play pattern upon hitting level 6 in a way similar to what Corki's ultimate does. Gaining a spike in power in tandem with his passive, but then going on cooldown gives it a level of interactivity.

DarkHeadgear2 votes

He is countered even harder by CC than he is before due to all of the channeling. He needs more teamfight potential or else he is going to be more useless than he is. Right now he is a splitpushing monster and this makes him feel slower and weaker than he already is.

The Lost Marbles2 votes

The only reason a full damage build even works on Tryndamere is because of the whole "ignore death for 5 seconds" bit.

You can't make him any better in teamfights while he has said ultimate, though, because being a good teamfighter who can't be killed for 5 seconds is just asking for trouble.

I would like to make a more damage-focused build still viable, though, while preserving the "weight" behind his sword, so to speak.

DeathBurst2 votes

As usual: state your issues with the current champions and the goals of your proposed rework. Admittedly, it's rather obvious for Tryndamere (as opposed to the Twisted Fate thread we got earlier today...), but still, clear middle ground and common understanding always help for discussion.

EDIT: in the OP, not scattered through the whole thread.

The Lost Marbles2 votes

{quoted}

As usual: state your issues with the current champions and the goals of your proposed rework. Admittedly, it's rather obvious for Tryndamere (as opposed to the Twisted Fate thread we got earlier today...), but still, clear middle ground and common understanding always help for discussion.

EDIT: in the OP, not scattered through the whole thread.

Wrote one of those up for you, added it to the OP.

DeathBurst2 votes

Good job. It's well written AND I happen to agree with your assessment. On paper, the proposed kit seems to fulfill the goals. Overall a very nice proposal :)

The Lost Marbles2 votes

Made a few significant modifications to try and nudge him back towards a fighter instead of being an off-brand juggernaut.

Also tried to come up with a modified version of his "Undying" effect, since it is a core part of him and his lore, and helps to preserve the uncanny symmetry he has with Aatrox.

TheLastShadow451 votes

Not bad.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

So I get the point is to make Tryn healthier, but it honestly looks like you just nerfed all his abilities to shit. Dodgeable AOE thing (which seems reminiscent of that one post saying Tryn should "swing slower", ya put a channel on his shout, made his dash have a delay and get stopped by terrain, and I don't even know what to say about the Ult.

I get that it makes it arguably healthier, but these changes just feel real shitty from an actual Tryn player's perspective.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=duV1F4vw,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-04-18T07:35:41.160+0000)

So I get the point is to make Tryn healthier, but it honestly looks like you just nerfed all his abilities to shit. Dodgeable AOE thing (which seems reminiscent of that one post saying Tryn should "swing slower", ya put a channel on his shout, made his dash have a delay and get stopped by terrain, and I don't even know what to say about the Ult.

I get that it makes it arguably healthier, but these changes just feel real shitty from an actual Tryn player's perspective.

I'm well aware that it departs considerably from how Tryndamere currently functions, but I'm pretty confident that many people would say that they wouldn't miss how Tryndamere currently functions.

His kit's just a whole ton of free junk all slapped together with no real caveats and minimal skill required. Free crit chance, free AD based on his missing HP, a free heal, a free (and needlessly massive) AoE AD reduction that can also apply a fairly strong slow, a free escape, and literally not dying for 5 seconds.

Also, I'm not talking huge delays here. Q would be roughly similar to Cho's W in execution, while my description on E is probably closer to a cast animation than an actual delay.

Sasogwa1 votes

Seems kinda weak and hard to balance. His kit has no astounding synergy with a bruiser build. It has synergy with attack speed (?) though only 1% AD per 5 % attack speed seems rather low, so you wanna build him damage, but his mobility is garbage and he'll get kited to oblivion.. Remember that current Trynd has E cd reduced by crits, which in lategame with a crit build makes him have spin every 2 or 3 seconds if he crits a bunch. And despite these considerations he's stil considered a fairly kiteable champion. His defensive steroid is kinda average, a bit of damage reduction. The passive is interesting ; the Q kinda screams : get a trinity force, but then.. Idk, he doesn't seem to have any good amount of utility or mobility so... he's just a worse Jax/Irelia. His steroids aren't impressive either (oh it depends mostly on how well the attack speed reduction on Q works, with a lot of attack speed and CDR there's some potential maybe. Maybe a bruiser trinity force botrk Trynd like that could work).

Overall, on what I see, he just becomes a weaker version of Jax. Old Tryn, with ult, high sustain and crit synergy for mobility is quite different from Jax, this Tryn just looks like a trinity wannabe that doesn't do the job any better. Though the resilience to CC is nice.. I'm not sure he fills any interesting/viable niche.

He kinda becomes a juggernaught/bruiser and for that there's no other real thing that : either he's as powerful as Darius/Jax/Yi and shits on everyone in melee without much thought, or he's just unviable.

Rouwhorst1 votes

I doubt he would want to build a trinity with that kit, his cd's are all fairly high plus he does not have mana. Both Jax and Irelia have good gapclosers and stickyness which differ them quite from this kit's version. I would compare him with that kit more to Darius or Garen.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

I doubt he would want to build a trinity with that kit, his cd's are all fairly high plus he does not have mana. Both Jax and Irelia have good gapclosers and stickyness which differ them quite from this kit's version. I would compare him with that kit more to Darius or Garen.

His Q is reduced by 1 second for every autoattack. With 40 % cdr, that's 4.8 seconds CD minus 1 for each autoattack. That's actually quite spammable provided you're capped in CDR and have good attack speed, which trinity force helps tremendously with. And since it's an autoattack reset, well.. His kit doesn't have any good synergy with other typical jugg items (hard to proc black cleaver since no real bleed or physical dot, naturally slow attack speed. Titanic not granting AS, the only stat to have ratios on his kit). Basically that is why you want triforce. Botrk is sort of good yet annoying because though the attack speed, AD and lifesteal are cool, the fact your attack speed is naturally lower than other champs kind of kill the purpose of the on-hit.

Rouwhorst1 votes

You won't be hitting 40% CDR that fast. Trinity would at least not be rushed. I would opt for cheaper items, probably with lifesteal because he does not have that innately I think I would reside to BotrK or Ravenous Hydra as a first item.

Before, trynda got pretty much free AD and damage from his Q and Passive and indeed barely any scaling so it is logical to build attackspeed. In this version his Q and E both have AD scaling. In that regard both hydra's would be decent items. Maybe that Trinity would be bought as a second or third item, that is surely possible.

The OP was talking about windup time not fully reducing with AS, note that this is not attackspeed. Windup time is the time it takes from the point the attack is started to the point the projectile is released (for melee to hit). Karthus for example has a long windup time but will still get 2.5 attacks per second if he has max AS. A problem arises when your windup time is longer than the time you have for 1 attack. The minimum is 0.4 (1/2.5) seconds. The current passive is probably not enough to get over this point, but is highly unusual to lengthen the windup time because of that problem. So it turns out that trynda still scales efficient with attackspeed, he does take longer to preform an attack but the total attack speed should remain equal. This whole section is probably useless because the OP most likely did mean attackspeed and not windup speed.

Actually, the OP is constantly updating his post so I do not know what was originally in there.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

{quoted}

Actually, the OP is constantly updating his post so I do not know what was originally in there.

I apologize for that. My thoughts and ideas change fairly often, and I forget to keep a change-log. I'm pretty focused on the design now, though, as a warrior who gains bursts of heightened resilience under pressure.

I ended up just getting rid of the whole reduced wind-up bit because it would likely feel too clunky on a melee champion, especially an AD champion since melee ADs generally have to auto a decent amount. (That, and if anyone were to have a passive effect like that, Nautilus would fit the bill better since his attacks are already slow and clunky to begin with.)

The Lost Marbles1 votes

In general, yes, he's more of a juggernaut than a fighter with this concept. The main reason I did this, besides his current design being so shaky, is because of Olaf.

Tryndamere and Olaf actually have a number of things in common. They share a similar character archetype as furious berserkers, they both have several steroids in their kits, they both have sustain, and their ults both give them a means of shrugging off the opposition.

Trying to make Tryndamere a healthier fighter with his current play-style is basically just re-inventing Olaf.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

I was intentionally trying to make him less of a splitpusher, though, because it doesn't suit his character. You expect someone like Tryndamere to want to be fighting champions, but instead his kit is loaded with ways to deter people from trying to fight him without much effort on his part.

That said, I could probably make some adjustments to improve his ability to teamfight and supplement his passive's ability to break CC.

  • Barbaric Blow's cast time scales down with Tryndamere's Fury
  • Warlord's Challenge cannot be interrupted by crowd control during the channel. (Tryndamere can still be crowd controlled, and it'll still build Fury via his passive, but it won't actually affect him until the channel ends.)
  • Reworded Ruination so it doesn't imply itself having a cast time.
NGNL Asian1 votes

this is good because it actually suits him and his long and big ass sword, it makes no sense for he to be able to just swing his blade that seems so large constantly that quick, it seems heavy so having a windup would be purfect

The Lost Marbles1 votes

As for Trynd's current play-style, I actually think it'd be better suited for a new champion with a character that fits it.

Like an opportunistic kind of person with a theme of either espionage or cowardice. Someone who would rather avoid direct confrontations and focus on their objective.

A battle-hardened warrior of the unforgiving north like Tryndamere, though? No, a play-style heavily favoring split-pushing and just ignoring fights just doesn't fit him at all.

Rouwhorst1 votes

P: Can feel indeed bad vs champions with barely any CC, but I vision this more as a teamfight tool rather than a lane tool. I hope this was your intention. It has negative scaling with tenacity, not that it is bad or something, just saying.

Q: Have you thought about a small skillshot for this one? Currently the enemy can evade the attack but Tryndamere can barely prevent this. Making this a skillshot allows for more expression of skill. Furthermore 15% is not that huge tbh, especially not for that cd.

W: Not super rewarding to use, a 1 second channel for a potential 1.5 second, 40% slow or some fury. Again, this spell seems to have more use in teamfights.

E: Cool mechanic, not super visible and clear for the enemy but it will do. Taking away his wall-dash option is quite a big hit, especially for roaming or splitpushing. Furthermore it can be blocked by tanks, Making it tricky to use in teamfights. But it is certainly better in the laningphase. Does the cooldown refund apply on dashing max-range?

R: Another cool new mechanic, would need some particle effect or something to indicate that he is reducing damage. A bit weird that it is no active, but I am sure there is playing around that. There might arise some situation in which the enemy keeps cc-ing you, Nasus and Nauti come to mind. It is probably not very strong for skirmishes and short duels since it takes some time to stack up your passive and then it is often too late. Prolonged fights could work though. In teamfights it surely is good. Splitpushing can work with the ult, but I am not sure, it depends on what the enemy sends to stop you.

Overall, this kit focusses a lot more on teamfights. Some skill definitely need some polishing work. Furthermore he does not have any sustain in his kit making him not super good in toplane, and combined with the E wall-dash inability he will probably not jungle.

Kyunsei1 votes

I will miss the full damage build with a rework like this. I mean you made it in a way which Tryndamere still want ASPD, but once one or two ASPD item are completed I have doubt you won't go for thing like Dead man's plate or GA.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

I'm thinking his Q needs more synergy with raw damage and attack speed. Maybe increase the damage amp effect but have it only apply to the base damage of the attack, and have the swing speed scale down with his bonus AS.

You're right that on-hit doesn't feel as good on a champion that attacks slower than normal, so doubling down on the concept of attack speed increasing his fluidity rather than just his attack animation seems like a way to go.

  • Passive increased to 2% AD on auto damage per 5% bonus AS and 0.5% wind-up reduction per 1% bonus AS

  • Q now only amplifies base damage, but does so to a greater extent, and also reduces its wind-up based on Tryndamere's bonus Attack Speed

  • Reduced W's channel to 0.75 seconds.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

I'm considering just nixing the reduced AS effectiveness on his autos (and the accompanying bonus damage based on AS) entirely.

Giving Trynd more things to do in fights, and removing the purely anti-death Undying Rage, should be sufficient to keep him from just mindlessly splitting all game.

Still mulling over whether Q should be an AA modifier or just an AoE 'skillshot' swing that can critically strike.

I'm also trying to come up with a better ultimate. I want something that's not just a steroid, but still feels "Tryndamere". Maybe a steroid that puts a cap on his Health (meaning you can't recover above the amount of Health you have when you cast it), but makes him more powerful the lower his HP is. Basically, a skill that you're gambling on, with its risk and reward both increasing the lower your Health on activation.

If I do change the ultimate, I'll probably put damage reduction on his W's mini-channel to give it some merit as a protective button ala Meditate or Riposte.

DragonShea1 votes

Tryndamere is a little bitch and his play style reflects that. He wants to have an advantage over his opponent but as soon as they match him and Spin slashes the fuck out of danger. Kled is what Trynda was to be. Someone that gets up in your face and keeps on fighting until he STAYS DEAD.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

imo, removing his ultimate is simply a nono. its his most defining characteristic and the only thing that really makes him stand out at all from every champ in the game.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

{quoted}

imo, removing his ultimate is simply a nono. its his most defining characteristic and the only thing that really makes him stand out at all from every champ in the game.

Poppy's old ultimate made her stand out from everyone else as well, but it wasn't healthy or engaging game-play.

That said, I did keep the "stands his ground and keeps going at the brink of death" aspect of Undying Rage.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Lost Marbles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=duV1F4vw,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2017-04-18T22:53:47.999+0000)

Poppy's old ultimate made her stand out from everyone else as well, but it wasn't healthy or engaging game-play.

That said, I did keep the "stands his ground and keeps going at the brink of death" aspect of Undying Rage.

Poppy's old ultimate was compleltley and utterly broken and unhealthy and was utterly random and not a defining aspect of the character despite its uniqueness. Tryndemere is not equally comparable to her ultimate and him being the warrior whose range transcends death is intrinsic to his design and character.

The Lost Marbles2 votes

{quoted}

Poppy's old ultimate was compleltley and utterly broken and unhealthy and was utterly random and not a defining aspect of the character despite its uniqueness. Tryndemere is not equally comparable to her ultimate and him being the warrior whose range transcends death is intrinsic to his design and character.

I have no issue with Tryndamere's "rage transcending death".

What I have issue with is how it's currently set up in his kit, its ease of use specifically, making it borderline impossible for 1 person to deal with him, and potentially more than 1 if the Trynd is competent and/or ahead enough. Which he may or may not be depending on how his early game cheese panned out.

That's why I wanted to try and window it, and also tie it into the fury of his passive. It also, as I may have mentioned before, continues his design symmetry with Aatrox by having an anti-death mechanic tied to their passive.

Also, I just laned against a Tryndamere a little while ago. His ultimate having literally no caveats, delays, or activation requirements bugged me as usual. Just "if his ult is up, don't bother trying to fight him, and don't sit under turret either because if he gets enough crits he'll just kill you through your Ninja Tabi and escape without dying despite holding him down under turret as much as Maokai can manage".

The Lost Marbles1 votes

I think I figured out how to make Undying Rage work in a more satisfying manner. Might want a lower CD, though, not sure.

The only things I'm still unsure of at this point are how exactly his Fury generation should work to achieve the desired effect. Different conditions I've considered, some of which I have in his kit right now;

  • Damaging enemy champions (and possibly monsters) with attacks or abilities.

  • Receiving damage in excess of a percentage of his Current Health (similar to Poppy's old passive in wording, it sort of incentivizes not building much HP).

  • Being crowd-controlled (pairs well with the activation's effect of breaking crowd control Tryndamere is under).

The Lost Marbles1 votes

Reworked how Tryndamere generates Fury, and changed the buff's damage reduction to a % AD bonus.

With the ability to gain Fury by taking hits that are strong relative to his Health, Tryndamere has the incentive to forego tankiness, since a glass cannon build would take bigger hits, thus gaining more Fury. On the other hand, he can go a tankier Cleaver type of build and let his abilities build his Fury instead.

The mechanic of building Fury by taking large amounts of damage also meshes well with my iteration of Undying Rage.

Current thought is whether the window of time as to where his Fury is in check could be extended a bit in the early-game, by making "out of combat" start sooner and his cool off period last longer, both scaling down with level.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

Added my thoughts on each of his abilities.

Through all my efforts in this thread, I've come to realize how hard updating a champion actually is. You want to preserve their identity while also better managing their power budget and shaving out poor mechanics. It feels pretty nerve-wracking, and I'm not even doing any official work. I can only imagine how some of the ChampUp devs must feel.

(Tryndamere's design is especially difficult to work with because his most iconic traits are also his worst designed ones. Basically the same problem Riot runs into with Kassadin and Ryze.)

Skaiserus1 votes

GODDAMNIT, I WANTED TO MAKE A CHAMP CONCEPT BUT LOOKING AT THIS MAKES ME THINK MY WORK IS TRASH, YOU PUT SO MANY DETAILLSSS, IM DONE WITH CHAMP CONCEPTS. ;( [zombie-nunu-tears]

The Lost Marbles1 votes

{quoted}

GODDAMNIT, I WANTED TO MAKE A CHAMP CONCEPT BUT LOOKING AT THIS MAKES ME THINK MY WORK IS TRASH, YOU PUT SO MANY DETAILLSSS, IM DONE WITH CHAMP CONCEPTS. ;( [zombie-nunu-tears]

It's actually more a product of me having too much free time than anything else.

Also my sheer dislike for Tryndamere and desire to punch a metaphorical baby every time I've ever had to lane against him.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

Probably the last time I bump/update this, but I restored active functionality to Undying Rage. With a twist intended to give the ability some semblance of thought behind it.

StealWolverine1 votes

Passive change is a nerf W change is a nerf E change is a nerf R change is a nerf

The Lost Marbles1 votes

{quoted}

Passive change is a nerf W change is a nerf E change is a nerf R change is a nerf

Trynd's current passive, W, and R are all extremely powerful abilities that require absolutely zero thought from the player, as I'm sure I've iterated more than once in this thread.

  • Up to 35% free critical strike chance with no penalty on critical damage is actually significantly stronger than Yasuo's double crit chance until he gets 1.5 items.

  • W is up to an EIGHTY flat AD reduction to every enemy in a sizeable area in front of you, and anyone facing away is hit by an up to 60% slow that lasts for FOUR seconds. For the average late-game heavy AD champion at full build, this is a 20-25% AD reduction, and the slow is actually one of the strongest slows in the game in terms of strength-to-duration, I think. (Also, why does mocking someone to their face make them weaker?)

  • As for his ultimate, I've conceded that this ability is really hard to rework, but it's also iconic to Tryndamere. I can say with some certainty that if Riot were to actually rework Trynd, his ultimate would be removed or heavily changed because you just don't want this ult to be on a champion who's more than just 'passable' in team-fights. If you can think of a better way to rework it, though, I'm all ears.

As for E, the only reason his current E has such a gigantic bonus AD ratio is because it's literally his only damaging ability. Since I gave him a second damaging ability and made E directly reduce its own CD when used for the intended purpose (gap closing), I figured I should tone the ratio down. Maybe too much, though?

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