Boards›Gameplay

Mini-Rework of AP Items (Simplified)

The Lost Marbles·5/9/2017, 9:23:29 PM·18 votes·2,475 views

I decided to simplify the little pet project I started. Numbers are, like always, tentative and mostly filler since you can't easily balance them by eyeballing it.

/-/-/

First off, Lost Chapter and its upgrades. Tried to make them distinct unique items, sorta like the Zeal upgrades on ADCs.

Rite of Ruin is for if you just want to use your own abilities more, nice and simple. Pox Arcana offers the least innate mana and mana sustain of the three, but can potentially provide a burst of mana and damage via its active. Netherstride has the lowest combat potential, but grants some extra mobility for people who can poke often but not move so much.

Lost Chapter

Amplifying Tome + Sapphire Crystal + 415 = 1200

+40 Ability Power +250 Mana

Unique - Lost Chapter: Restores 10% of your Maximum Mana over 3 seconds upon leveling up or taking down an enemy champion.

/-/-/

Rite of Ruin

Lost Chapter + Fiendish Codex + 700 = 2800

+80 Ability Power +300 Mana

Unique - Lost Chapter: +20% Cooldown Reduction. Restores 20% of your Maximum Mana upon leveling up or taking down an enemy champion.

/-/-/

Pox Arcana

Lost Chapter + Blasting Wand + 750 = 2800

+100 Ability Power +300 Mana

Unique - Lost Chapter: +10% Cooldown Reduction. Restores 10% of your Maximum Mana upon leveling up or taking down an enemy champion.

Unique: Dealing ability damage to an enemy champion afflicts them with Pox for 6 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. Activate to deal (50 - 100, based on Level) + [15 (+5% AP) per stack of Pox] Magic Damage to nearby enemies afflicted with Pox, and regain 3% Maximum Mana per stack of Pox harvested (90 second cooldown).

/-/-/

Netherstride Grimoire

Lost Chapter + Aether Wisp + 750 = 2800

+75 Ability Power +300 Mana +5% Movement Speed

Unique - Lost Chapter: +10% Cooldown Reduction. Restores 15% of your Maximum Mana upon leveling up or taking down an enemy champion.

Unique: Dealing ability damage grants 20 Movement Speed for 2 seconds, doubled to 40 when hitting an enemy champion.

/-/-/

Now for magic penetration. Haunting Guise has been changed to grant purely AP plus a small amount of % Magic Penetration, and now builds into either Liandry's Torment or Void Staff Morello's Ire. The former for melting down tankier targets, and the latter for beating down sustaining foes.

Also added a simple HP+AP component, used to make Liandry's and Rylai's.

Haunting Guise

Amplifying Tome + 765 = 1200

+25 Ability Power

Unique - Agony: +15% Magic Penetration

/-/-/

Spellsword's Vambrace

Amplifying Tome + Ruby Crystal + 315 = 1150

+200 Health +30 Ability Power

/-/-/

Liandry's Torment

Haunting Guise + Spellsword's Vambrace + 650 = 3000

+350 Health +60 Ability Power

Unique - Agony: +30% Magic Penetration

Unique: Dealing ability damage applies a damage-over-time effect that deals bonus Magic Damage equal to 2% of the target's Current Health per second for 3 seconds, doubled to 4% versus movement-impaired units (max 100 per second versus monsters).

/-/-/

Morello's Ire

Needlessly Large Rod + Haunting Guise + 550 = 3000

+90 Ability Power

Unique - Agony: +30% Magic Penetration

Unique: Dealing ability damage to champions applies Grievous Wounds for 4 seconds, reducing any heals or shields applied to them by 1% for every 1.5% of their Missing Health (max 50% reduction).

/-/-/

Rylai's Crystal Scepter

Spellsword's Vambrace + Blasting Wand + 800 = 2800

+350 Health +80 Ability Power

Unique - Icy: Your damaging abilities and pet attacks Slow enemy units by 30% for 1.5 seconds, reduced to 20% on ranged champions.

/-/-/

For flat penetration, here's my take on Deathfire Grasp. Grants a sort of "magic lethality" effect, and has an active that removes defenses from the target. Such as Banshee's Veil.

Deathfire Grasp

Needlessly Large Rod + Fiendish Codex + 750 = 2900

+90 Ability Power +10% Cooldown Reduction

Unique: Your Magic Damage penetrates up to 15 of your target's Magic Resist based on their Level.

Unique Active - Doom: Removes all shields and spell shields from target enemy champion (90 second cooldown).

/-/-/

Next up is 120 AP things, Rabadon's + Luden's, and a mini-Deathcap to smooth out the former's build path a bit.

Arcane Hood

Blasting Wand + 600 = 1450

+60 Ability Power

Unique - Arcanum: +15% Ability Power

/-/-/

Rabadon's Deathcap

Needlessly Large Rod + Arcane Hood + 700 = 3400

+120 Ability Power

Unique - Arcanum: +30% Ability Power

/-/-/

Luden's Echo

Needlessly Large Rod + Aether Wisp + Amplifying Tome + 665 = 3200

+120 Ability Power +7% Movement Speed

Unique - Echo: Gains charges upon moving or casting. At 100 charges, the next instance of ability damage you deal will expend all charges to deal 80 (+10% AP) bonus magic damage to the first enemy hit and summon up to 3 lesser bolts that target nearby enemies, prioritizing enemies damaged by the ability and champions over minions.

/-/-/

Hextech items, with a small adjustment that their cooldown is now 60 seconds each, but is affected by CDR. Also small tweaks to Gunblade's damage.

Hextech Gunblade

Bilgewater Cutlass + Hextech Revolver + 850 = 3400

+40 Attack Damage +80 Ability Power

Unique: Dealing damage heals you for 15% of damage dealt, reduced to 5% for area of effect damage.

Unique Active - Hextech: Deals 125 - 200 (+30% Bonus AD) (+30% AP) Magic Damage to target enemy champion and Slows them by 40% for 2 seconds (60 second cooldown, reduced by cooldown reduction).

/-/-/

Hextech Protobelt-01

Hextech Revolver + Kindlegem + 650 = 2500

+300 Health +60 Ability Power +10% Cooldown Reduction

Unique Active - Hextech: Dash forward and unleash a nova of seven fire bolts that individually deal 75 - 150 (+25% AP) Magic Damage (60 second cooldown, reduced by cooldown reduction). Champions and monsters hit by multiple bolts take 10% damage per additional bolt.

/-/-/

Hextech GLP-800

Catalyst of Aeons + Hextech Revolver + 850 = 3000

+300 Health +400 Mana +80 Ability Power

Unique - Eternity: 15% of damage taken from champions is gained as Mana. Spending Mana restores 20% of the cost as Health, up to 25 per spell cast.

Unique Active - Hextech: Fires a spray of icy bolts that explode, dealing 100 - 200 (+35% AP) Magic Damage to all enemies hit and Slowing them by 65%, decaying over 0.75 seconds (60 second cooldown, reduced by cooldown reduction).

/-/-/

Credits

  • Glory97, NineTailedMystic, Méta, and Anonagon, for various critique

52 Comments

Glory975/9/2017, 9:58:09 PM5 votes

That is damn good. I think this would make ap-itemisation way better. But some criticism is needed though:

The different morellos offer +10%ap, rabbadons +25%ap. With 3 120 ap items you can get more ap than ever before. I suggest to just remove the 10% buff from the morellos and given them 15 or 20 ap more instead.

The unique passive of netherstride morello seems odd. Most of the ap casters don't synergize with that movement-passive, but a few of them would go insane with that passive (ryze, cassio). I suggest to just give a 15% movement speed buff for 2 seconds with a cd of ~10 seconds.

Some people asked for more different options for magic penetration. Like amorpen has several different ways to be build. Any ideas?.

I like seeing people who suggest improovment instead of just crying about how bad things are. Well done!

Kats Pajamas5/9/2017, 10:06:20 PM2 votes

Liandries nerf? Are you out of your mind? Not only does the pen internally stack with that passive well damage-wise, no one that buys it wants CDR.

Winterkill5/10/2017, 6:04:28 AM2 votes

Riot Games doesn't care. It's really great ideas and pretty thought out, but the Developers don't care.

DemoGuide5/10/2017, 1:04:14 AM2 votes

I really like Morellonomicon direction. But believe me, your version of DFG is overtuned. Either you remove 20 AP or 15 mpen from this item, and substitute it with an active/passive which don't affect your stats directly.

NineTailedMystic5/10/2017, 1:26:40 AM2 votes

YOU FOOOOOOOOOOL

You try to bring back a version of Netherstride's Unique Passive, but not Pox Arcana's? Fuck the Grievous Wounds, give me back the active.

Also, why nerf overall MPen? -5% total Mpen with no new Mpen flat or % seems unreasonable.

Saianna5/10/2017, 8:48:12 AM2 votes

Any rework or upgrade of AP = heavy nerf of AP.

Source: Last 5 years of pathch notes

As much as I'd love to see some changes (not necessarily buffs), I'd be even more happier if Riot would stop shoving all of their attention to ADCs and cease their neverending stream of buffs for that class.

Sexy Jack Rabbit5/10/2017, 9:27:22 AM2 votes

Holy shit this is SO good wtf?

Anonagon5/11/2017, 2:54:10 AM2 votes

While I do like the idea of making Liandrys a %pen item and posing it and Void Staff as alternatives to each other, I think the those iterations of both are ridiculous.

40% magic pen is ludicrously overpowered - the only reason current Void Staff's 35% is even remotely balanced is because its an item with a shitty buildpath that gives nothing else but AP. If there are going to be AP parallels to the Last Whisper items, then they need to have a lot less magic pen, unless they are converted to %bonusPen.

I also think there's little reason to have an option that doesn't have a unique passive of its own - no one would choose Void Staff over Liandrys, because no Mage has ratios so absurd that 20AP is worth more than 400 HP and the burn passive. I realize that Void is much cheaper, but its so much less slot efficient, and the advantage of low price is cancelled out by just how sufficient the component item is - to get an extra %10 magic pen 500 gold early means nothing.

I think a better way to do these items would be this:

Haunting Guise Amplifying Tome + 765 = 1200

+25 Ability Power Unique - Agony: +15% Magic Penetration /-/-/

Liandry's Torment Haunting Guise + Spellsword's Vambrace + 750 = 3100

+400 Health +60 Ability Power

Unique - Agony: +30% Magic Penetration Unique: Dealing ability damage applies a damage-over-time effect that deals bonus Magic Damage equal to 2% of the target's Current Health per second for 3 seconds, doubled to 4% versus movement-impaired units (max 100 per second versus monsters). /-/-/

Void Staff Haunting Guise + Needlessly Large Rod + 650 = 3100

+90 Ability Power

Unique - Agony: 10 Flat + 15% Magic Penetration Unique: Dealing ability damage to champions applies Grievous Wounds for 3 seconds, reducing healing and shielding values on them by 1% for every 1.5% of their missing health, up to 50%. /-/-/

Of course, if Void Staff is a Grievous Wounds item, then obviously it conflicts with Morellonomicon, doesn't it?

Well, that's my other complaint. While I love the idea of having alternatives for Morellos, I feel like it would end up being the only choice in a lot of matches because it has three unique advantages to the other two items' one - It has 10% more CDR, restores more mana, and has Grievous Wounds. The other two items' unique effects are their only advantages over Morellos, but they aren't even particularly more powerful than Grievous Wounds, even if the enemy team doesn't have a monster sustain champion like Vlad or Soraka.

I think that having more CDR and restoring more mana are strengths enough for Morello over the other two options. So I'd remove Grievous Wounds from Morellos, increase its mana by 100-150 as compensation, and give a revised GW to Void Staff to give you a compelling reason to pick it over Liandry's.

The Lost Marbles5/10/2017, 2:12:37 AM1 votes

Alright, I think I've got the three books working the way you suggested.

Made Pox Arcana restore based on missing mana rather than maximum, though, since it still has the Lost Chapter passive too.

Netherstride grants a brief haste on every 3rd spellcast, so it still favors more frequent casters, but isn't just making everyone turbo.

Now we can try to come up with what exactly a flat magic penetration item would be/do. I'm not sure it's necessary, though, with Void Staff granting 100 AP and 40% pen. 40% is basically 12 flat pen on a level 1 target with no bonus MR, and it scales with their MR anyway.

In fact, I don't know if DFG is even needed, since Void Staff here basically does what I tried to do with it.

/-/-/

Edit: I just realized it's kinda dopey that all three books have CDR when Morello's the only one with CDR in its recipe.

Maybe Lost Chapter should build from Codex + Sapphire Crystal and have 10% CDR itself. That way the trio of books all having CDR makes more sense.

Edit 2: Lost Chapter and book recipes now have CDR consistency.

The Lost Marbles5/9/2017, 11:19:56 PM1 votes

One thing I'm stumped on right now is where to fit Void Staff into this.

Maybe the Guise passive should just be %MPen, and Void Staff can be a big AP focused upgrade. Would probably have to lower the AP on Liandry's in that case.

Edit: Added Void Staff in along these lines. Not sure if it's ideal, but it's the best way I could think of to get Void Staff into this setup.

The Lost Marbles5/12/2017, 3:15:06 AM1 votes

Added two more experimental items/tweaks, along with other miscellaneous edits.

The Lost Marbles5/11/2017, 4:25:56 AM1 votes

At level 9, a ranged champion has 34 or 45 innate MR, depending on whether scaling or flat MR blues.

15% of the former is 5, and of the latter is 6, so your Void penetration would basically equal our current 15 flat pen versus them, becoming slightly more effective if they invest in an MR item.

/-/-/

A level 18 ranged champ has 63 or 50 innate MR, again based on scaling or flat MR blues.

15% of that being 9 or 7.

/-/-/

A 45 MR item, such as Banshee's Veil, has roughly ~6 of its MR shaved off.

To be honest, my math seems to tell me that 10 (+15%) Magic Pen is a bit under-tuned.

Against a level 18 ranged mage with Banshee's and flat MR runes, for example, 35% penetrates 33 of that MR, while 10 (+15%) only penetrates 24.

The Lost Marbles5/10/2017, 7:01:04 PM1 votes

Added an HP+AP component item, and redone recipes for Liandry's and Rylai's.

I wonder if Netherstride should just give a small flat amount of MS on dealing magic damage instead of the % MS bonus, like a magic version of Cleaver's Rage passive.

The Lost Marbles5/10/2017, 10:09:51 PM1 votes

I think that's about as good as I can make these items right now, given all the critique I've gotten so far.

LightIsMyPath5/9/2017, 11:32:44 PM1 votes

I Like them a lot 😊 what are your thoughts on the defensive options?

The Lost Marbles5/9/2017, 11:49:11 PM1 votes

I'm starting to wonder if 120 AP + 15 MPen is too much for neo-DFG. Might tone that down to 100 AP.

Duskblade has slightly below top tier AD, so an AP variation on it should ideally follow suit.

Legacy Hydralpha5/9/2017, 11:58:45 PM1 votes

A lot of these ideas are pretty great, love the concept of item 3802 and item 3136 building into several items. An idea I had is to make Deathfire Grasp build out of item 3145 and make it a Hextech item (Like Gunblade, Protobelt, and GLP-800). The active could be a narrow wave skillshot that passes through targets. It would work better on mages (Having more range than the other items), be able to hit several targets with ease, and bring back the idea of DFG's damaging active.

The Lost Marbles5/11/2017, 1:54:29 AM1 votes

I re-added a hypothetical version of Deathfire Grasp.

This one being a very cheap 120 AP stick, but that 120 AP dwindles down to 90 after a short time in combat.

In terms of gold efficiency, it's slightly above 100% efficient at first, but drops to ~78% efficiency once it 'fades'.

Sanctimonious5/11/2017, 2:11:13 AM1 votes

Damn. Those deathcap changes look pretty ass. The extra pen from void seems overbearing too. (At Least from the standpoint of a champion that stacks 80AP items)

If i was to add an item, it would be:

  • 3000 Gold
  • 2 daggers + Aether Wisp + blasting wand
  • 100 AP
  • 8% MS
  • Passive: Gain 12.5% attack speed every time you autoattack a champion with a basic attack, each stack lasting 2.5 seconds.

Useful for Teemo / Azir / Kayle and other ap based marksmen. It scales with items too.