The reason why Riot always keeps champs like zed/lee sin in meta

Bladerunner7777·Dec 29, 2015·12 votes·1,028 views

Because they have counterplay.

I hate zed. I hate lee sin. But I'd much rather have slightly more difficult champions to be strong than stupidly simple champs to be strong. You know what wasn't fun? Being chased by a pre-nerfed Cinderhulk Sejuani. She is going to ult you, lunge at you, and kill you. When I'm being chased by a fed lee sin I can at least try to dodge his Q and have a possibility of escape; I can at least get a qss or zhonyas against zed to increase my chances of survival.

Are they fun to play against? No! But there is at least something I can do to outplay them opposed to just "avoid getting near them all game"

17 Comments

BluePolarizerDec 29, 201513 votes

You could dodge Sejuani ult easier than Lee Sin Q due to its travel time. Example of why dodging should not be completely considered counterplay:

Prenerf Nid. It did not matter that you could dodge 90% of her spears. She just needed to land 1 to win the game.

Slamurai JackDec 29, 20153 votes

Except for the fact that the hitbox on her ult is way bigger and can't be blocked by minions. But yes, other than those 2 enormous things, Lee's Q is easier to hit.

PDE5 InhibitorsDec 29, 20154 votes

The biggest issue with Lee's Q is the CD. It doesn't matter if he misses you since he can just cast another shortly there after.

Bladerunner7777Dec 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You could dodge Sejuani ult easier than Lee Sin Q due to its travel time. Example of why dodging should not be completely considered counterplay:

Prenerf Nid. It did not matter that you could dodge 90% of her spears. She just needed to land 1 to win the game.

Sejuani's ult still slowed even if you missed

Sejuani wasn't the best example to use in this post but you get what I'm saying right

NekusenDec 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Prenerf Nid. It did not matter that you could dodge 90% of her spears. She just needed to land 1 to win the game.

kinda like Blitzcrank grab

The Bíg TicketDec 29, 20154 votes

You can buy a QSS to get out of Sejuani's ultimate aswell and it has a slower travel time than Lee's Q so it should be just as easy to dodge right? Your argument is based on double standards, bad thread.

Bladerunner7777Dec 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=drWbv157,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-12-29T12:17:08.315+0000)

You can buy a QSS to get out of Sejuani's ultimate aswell and it has a slower travel time than Lee's Q so it should be just as easy to dodge right? Your argument is based on double standards, bad thread.

Sejuani's ult used to slow for 90% when you missed

Getting a zhonya vs sejuani also isn't that good, mages don't get qss

Stiv1234Dec 29, 20154 votes

If a Lee or Zed misses his Q after they have dashed to you, thats not you outplaying them, but them failing.

Hayaishi2Dec 29, 20152 votes

Sejuani is a bad example, something like Swain, Talon, Mundo, would be more accurate.

BluePolarizerDec 29, 20151 votes

I'm not aware of how you dodge Talon. His kit is entirely either point blank or point and click.

Hayaishi2Dec 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm not aware of how you dodge Talon. His kit is entirely either point blank or point and click.

yeah that was my point

IncognonymousDec 29, 20152 votes

Zed/Lee remain relevant because they make flashy, big, dumb plays, stupid escapes, and speed up the game.

Mael broDec 29, 20151 votes

Well but it's more aggrivating to play against these too champs. And more annoying to see them in every damn game.

Teemo or FeedmoDec 29, 20151 votes

if you hate zed,buy fizz or vladimir!

Your Real MomDec 29, 20151 votes

I think the thing most people disregard is that in order to do well with both of the champions you mentioned you require some kind of knowledge as to how they work and how their mechanics work. A lot - I mean a lot - of plays that both are capable of making are highly predictable. You can also punish them so hard when they expend their w's. Because when its down they are forced to either die, all in you and try to fight you, or waste flash to get away. If you are the aggressor both of them are easily taken care of and shut down. Most zed players do use w to harass with q. Which is a very bad habit especially if they're at an aggressive position when doing so. Just watch for their mistakes and you will feel more confident in what to look for and ease out of the passive play against them with more experience in the lane and playing around with match ups.

NekusenDec 29, 20151 votes

LeeSin and Zed are kept in the meta because of flashyplays, they jump around and riot likes that, so they make sure they stay relevant.

ZephyrDrakeDec 29, 20151 votes

so you can't buy a QSS to get rid or Sej's ult? and you can't even attempt to dodge her ult either? sorry but what's so different between Sej's ult that you can't dodge or qss from Lee's REGULAR skill or Zed's ult? You speak of counterplay... i don't think this word means what you think it means