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Free Runes: Good. Idiotic Runes: Bad.

Bladerunner7777··71 votes·3,840 views

When Keystone masteries were first introduced, they were advertised that you would be able to pick the keystone that "fits your playstyle"

Yeah, right

It didn't take too long for the entire community to realize that Thunderlord's was the strongest, so every champion would run it and if you didn't, it was almost considered trolling.

So when Riot says new Runes will make "Pre game choices matter more" , I don't believe them. Just like the Keystone Masteries, the pro players will figure out what is the most efficient Runes possible.

The only difference?

Judging from what I've seen teased here, the new Runes are going to have so much random shit thrown together that it may take a few months to figure out, but eventually it will be figured out and everyone will be using the same stuff.

Keystone Masteries don't "adapt to your playstyle", they tell you how to play. You're using TLD? Hit them three times for the most efficient trade possible and back off, otherwise it's inefficient. Grasp? Attack minions for a few seconds before trading. etc

Another thing I'd like to point out: In the Runes Reforged video, Riot said something like "You can also take Overheal (the rune) if you have a Soraka on your team" - I don't even consciously think about the healers on my team when I'm buying Spirit Visage, I buy Spirit Visage because it synergizes with my champion and I want MR. Similarily, I'm not going to forfeit stronger early trades with Veteran's Scars so I can get the increased healing of Runic Armor because "I have a Soraka".

That level of "complexity" that Riot is going for just... doesn't exist.

in my opinion

92 Comments

BlackOnyxAltear13 votes

What im more concerned with is getting my ip back. I have dealt with shitstorms before and will survive this one too.

Ben Sharpio14 votes

you're SERIOUSLY more concerned about IP rather than things that are affecting GAMEPLAY experience? What the fuck?

Arakadia8 votes

He thinks runes will be fine or not big enough of a deal.

Bladerunner777734 votes

I spent like $20 for 7 rune pages

I've spent probably more than 20,000 ip on runes

20,000 ip is a lot of time that could have been spent doing something else

it is a legitimate concern.

LordBrasca6 votes

Yeah i've spent real money for rune pages too... hopefully we will get some RPs back, honestly i don't care that much about the IPs since i have all of the champions already, but i do care regarding the RPs.

FilDaFunk1 votes

What exactly are you gonna use the ip for?

BlackOnyxAltear3 votes

{quoted}

What exactly are you gonna use the ip for?

Champions, i dont own them all.

Radiant Wukong2 votes

I owned every rune with 16 rune pages... on a permabanned account. I'll never see any of that back. I'm just happy that if I ever get permabanned again, I don't have to grind for runes.

DeathBurst6 votes

It's a bit worrying that you actually consider the possibility of being perma-banned... again! You considered being nice, for a change?

TheBenchedKench2 votes

Yeah, Riot has screwed people over in the past. I don't want a fucking summoner Icon or a Ward Skin for 20,000 IP, I will never use them. I want my fucking IP back so I can buy Graves and finally have an ADC I enjoy playing.

Mecha MaIphite12 votes

I can't say I'm a fan of this new rune system either. I'm only going off of what I've read so I could be wrong, but this just feels like an extension of the mastery system. Yes, runes that just give stats are a little less "exciting" but they're very distinct from masteries in how they impact gameplay. Whereas with the new runes, a lot of them could easily be rebalanced to fit into mastery trees. It just feels like needless complexity.

Erractic Eick5 votes

Yeah, exactly! Today's runes aren't mutually exclusive, like masteries are. If I want life steal, ability power, health regeneration, and gold income, I can buy all of those runes without having to forgo a particular keystone. It feels like these new runes are false choices.

TG Yammy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Erractic Eick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GuXLNH2s,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-02T01:19:43.129+0000)

Yeah, exactly! Today's runes aren't mutually exclusive, like masteries are. If I want life steal, ability power, health regeneration, and gold income, I can buy all of those runes without having to forgo a particular keystone. It feels like these new runes are false choices.

Amen.

I like how you put it "false choices". Under the guise of "more choice", champs are ultimately going to become pigeon-holed. it will just take a couple months. As well intentioned as Riot mat seem/claim to be, human nature will bend this experiment right back to the original rune/mastery.

SweedishGunner5 votes

I completely agree. I don't understand what's wrong with the current runes system beside it's price to get enough pages/runes.

You can have like 4 rune pages for a single champ if you've played enough, there's plenty of diversity it just costs too much at the moment.

These new runes just seem like more gimmicks.

ntbcool2 votes

I think because their is little thinking about it. You just look it up make a few pages that just work for everyone. Yes you can make a bunch of pages for one champion, but because you can't change them in champion select you have to pretty much guess what you are gonna need/ be a one trick pony and have 5 urgot pages. I think the new runes helps to give you even more meaningful choices unlike Masteries and Runes did before it. Instead have having 30 runes and 30 mastery points that mostly have little to no effect, you have about 4 choices that all have a super large impact on your gameplay. Currently your only meaningful choice is your keystone and for most champions that isn't even a choice, because it's the only one that is ever good on your champ. That doesn't seem true for the new Rune, looking at the examples they seem to be designed, to be a lot closer to one another to give you a choose depending on the comp/matchup. (EX Bounty Hunter ones that are all for getting takedowns(kills/assists) but give different buffs that would work on the same champ most of the time, giving you a choose depending on the situation. Just my opinion though.

Avienal4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mecha MaIphite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GuXLNH2s,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-01T22:34:22.773+0000)

I can't say I'm a fan of this new rune system either. I'm only going off of what I've read so I could be wrong, but this just feels like an extension of the mastery system. Yes, runes that just give stats are a little less "exciting" but they're very distinct from masteries in how they impact gameplay. Whereas with the new runes, a lot of them could easily be rebalanced to fit into mastery trees. It just feels like needless complexity.

You have to remember this is replacing all the 'rune stats' and mastery abilities with a completely new design, so we're going to be stripped of all those innate little stat bonuses, life steal, damage bonuses, extra mobility, extra dmg to minions, reduced summoner spell CD, extra healing, extra damage burst, damage that ramps up with repeated trades, etc.

Granted they may seem scummy with some of them, but they are literally abolishing the entire old system that they tweaked over many seasons for something that will have less customization but alot more control and flexibility at the same time. If done right, they could easily make the new system have no 'true perfectionist' build but more of a 'build for particular situations', such as counter ward aggressive supports could overtake the jungle and allow strong vision, while a sustain damage build could use something like berserk to properly go bat shit crazy in damage. I'm just hoping they address particular champions and don't straight up create a stronger thunderlord's decree but create somthing that works with using abilities to apply the damage and 'resetting empowered hits' would not count to it or just plain spamming auto attacks.

The same can even be said with deathfire's touch where it would be abused by Jhin, a stronger ver would just make him cancer level annoying.

Since they aren't exactly releasing this till november if i recall, I'm sure they will at least take the time to check over most of the things and hopefully get most of the 'exploits' ironed out.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

{quoted}

To be fair, there exists scaling health per level runes too. Lots of squishies run 9x of these seals for about 200 hp at lvl 18. I doubt it'll be game breaking. But I bet Vandiril is going to love these new runes.

If the new system is accessible to all without any costs then plenty of boons from it with no 'cost gap' to screw players over even if they are new. One thing's for sure, they are probably going to have to weaken the minions and what not a bit to compensate for the drop in stats. Even if 'Squshies' wont be able to use scaling health runes anymore for 'strong' match ups, Assassins and what not won't have AD/AP/AP pen or even Lethality Runes/masteries to help them out on those EZ kills.

They just need to make sure to fix up any necessary changes with the shift into this rune Mastery system and give plenty of whats needed to make it work. Granted it mostly depends if some of these runes will be including some 'stat raising 'set(Aka 1 rune giving like +HP and +AD)' bonus' sort of rune bits...

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

TEA Nietzsche 8 votes

Actually, Runes and Masteries existing apart from each other is needless complexity.

DeathBurst2 votes

this just feels like an extension of the mastery system.

It's not an "extension", it's replacing BOTH Runes and Masteries. The old Masteries won't exist anymore, even if they only call the new system "Runes".

Sir Fuzzi5 votes

Online games are a fantastic practice in cookie cutting because having fun with a build is far, far less important than doing well with a build-- and since it's numbers based, you're generally working one build with one or two situational slots.

Masteries are the same, Runes will be the same. They practically are now.

Chønklord6 votes

Agree to disagree; I have far more enjoyment theorycrafting off-builds/runes/playstyles (and actually playing them in Ranked), than simply following the FOTM/OP build/champs to gain elo. That's boring as fuck.

Faustavian2 votes

Indeed, I've dominated more than my fair share of Bork rushing Lucian's with my Crit Nocturne

Doozku1 votes

Thought that Crit Noc was actually the way that you were supposed to build him now?

Or am I just stupid...

ntbcool2 votes

The meta way to play Noc is to not play him. xD

Faustavian1 votes

Most people build him as a sort of Bruiser, for example item 3153 item 3156 item 3071 item 3742 item 3748

I normally build him Crit with item 3748 and completely skip boots (not optimal, but Q and the boost to feared targets let's me stick to them easily enough.

Doozku1 votes

Because I remember Riot saying that he was classified as an assassin now instead of a diver because his newer builds focused more on damage and crit rather than building bruiser. That's why I thought he built crit.

Edit: Just checked champion.gg. Most popular build for Noc is: item 1400 item 3158 item 3142 item 3087 item 3031 item 3026 . Highest winrate build is no joke: item 1400 item 3158 item 3142item 3026 item 3074 item 3157 . (And yes that is a Zhonyas, I'm not making this up.)

Faustavian1 votes

Huh, I stopped looking when I saw the old bruiser build that was meta at the time and said "fk that" I run item 1419 item 3046 item 3748 item 3031 item 3087 item 3812 item 3508 (last two depend honestly, I like 100% crit but if you need sustain then do it.

Doozku1 votes

Tbh the second build on champ.gg looks more troll than yours. Tho if i'm playing noc I'd rather the Rengar build up above. Gives you those FULL AD CRIT NOCTURNE ONESHOTS 100-0 NO COUNTERPLAY BEST JUNGLER?

Faustavian1 votes

Nah man, My crit build does wonders for one shotting squishies. Titanic active -> R + Q right before impact -> AA (120% bonus damage + Titanic active + Statikk + Crit + Bonus AD from Q) EDIT, almost forgot to mention. Noc can also invade, hard. So this already amplifies his outstanding duelling power + gives a fast clear.

Doozku1 votes

no zhonays, bad build

Faustavian1 votes

I sht you not, I've done hybrid Noc before and dominated, So Zhonya's might actually be a reasonable choice for an AP noc.

Proof: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2491094527/226773745?tab=overview

Check out my other games too from noc if you wanna, usually fair pretty well. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/226773745?champion=56&matchType=1&map=1

*please ignore the massive amount of early AI games, i was super new to league and afraid of PvP

Stephen The G4 votes

What's wrong with people like you, they all bash a new game or in this case a feature months in advanced. I get they showed off some shit but legit that's all (probably) going to be changed. If you want it to include or dis include something recommend adding something while its still in development instead of jumping on the rito hate train. Also if you have a better idea im sure everyone wants to here it. You complain about current mastery system and how you think its going to be the same as the new system (or equally bad) why don't you suggest something that could fix it then?

in my opinion

Jamenawerl2 votes

The fix would be completely removing runes and masteries, and balancing champions accordingly.

Like it or not the OP has a point, current keystones only force you to play in a certain way that makes the most out of the one that best fits your champion, which is practically similar for every champion (the way of exploiting them I mean, not the keystone itself). Thus, not only do they not offer altenatives, but ironically they also make you play like everyone else, hindering each champion originality.

And runes are just generic ingame stat buffs in exange for PIs, which is almost pay2win-ish.

Stephen The G1 votes

"current keystones" sure i agree but this about new runes.

Jamenawerl1 votes

New runes/masteries will be the same thing, thats the point of the thread...

Stephen The G1 votes

again with the assuming things before they are even close to release

DeathBurst4 votes

Similarily, I'm not going to forfeit stronger early trades with Veteran's Scars so I can get the increased healing of Runic Armor because "I have a Soraka".

Well, you chose the wrong example to further your point. If you're ADC, you definitely should take Runic Armor. I mean, this one is even pretty easy to compute and check mathematically. If Soraka heals you for more than 560 HP (5-7 heals), you have more than the 45 HP from Veteran's Scars. And I'm pretty sure the pros actually care about this kind of small optimizations, and would like more of them. Veteran's Scars vs Runic Armor is kinda an exception in the current system, where there are mostly right and wrong answers, but it's a good thing if we can have more meaningful choices like that.

Yeah, Riot's stated goal is the same they stated during the last Mastery rework, and yes, the current Masteries aren't perfect. That's doesn't mean the original intent was bad. This new rework is one step further in the same direction, and it's nice since it's a good direction. Yes this level of complexity can -- and should -- exist, and there is a good chance that this new rework actually achieve it.

Asayake 5150glow3 votes

I'm very concerned about Essence Thief - I think squishies will be taking this just for the extra ~250 health mid game... if it's possible to get 250 CS by 25 minutes, then 200 health shouldn't be a problem.

Also I'm scared it'll make GP into a tanky monster.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Iceborn titanic tankplank

RavenMagus1 votes

It's not going to be a big deal TBH. I believe Essence Thief is going to end up roughly similar to the scaling HP runes that are a popular pick these days.

I'm more concerned about that fairy thing, aka Runelord's Decree, adding even more burst damage to the game.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

It's not going to be a big deal TBH. I believe Essence Thief is going to end up roughly similar to the scaling HP runes that are a popular pick these days.

I'm more concerned about that fairy thing, aka Runelord's Decree, adding even more burst damage to the game.

I'm not sure dude, this thing looks stronger than Strength of the Ages

Baka Red1 votes

The 'runes' are probably still at concept level. They will be doing balancing for those after all the rune concepts have been finalized. There is no need for cry and whine threads like this until we know more about the coming changes (Is there ever? cry & whine does not count too constructive in my books). Riot has done some bad balancing before, but they have succeeded too. How about we give them a chance?

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baka Red,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GuXLNH2s,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-02T07:05:22.064+0000)

The 'runes' are probably still at concept level. They will be doing balancing for those after all the rune concepts have been finalized. There is no need for cry and whine threads like this until we know more about the coming changes (Is there ever? cry & whine does not count too constructive in my books). Riot has done some bad balancing before, but they have succeeded too. How about we give them a chance?

I'm not whining, I'm looking at the history (Strength of the Ages) and warning them against making the same mistake again.

Danjeng4 votes

To be fair, there exists scaling health per level runes too. Lots of squishies run 9x of these seals for about 200 hp at lvl 18. I doubt it'll be game breaking. But I bet Vandiril is going to love these new runes.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, there exists scaling health per level runes too. Lots of squishies run 9x of these seals for about 200 hp at lvl 18. I doubt it'll be game breaking. But I bet Vandiril is going to love these new runes.

200 hp at lvl 18, and people are running them over flat armor?

Essence Thief will have given at least 300 hp at least lvl 18 unless you're jungling or some shit, 200 at the twenty minute mark. I think, in it's current iteration, it's quite a bit stronger.

ChaosThief3 votes

Complexity never truly exists. There will always be a "best" option.

It just depends on what you're playing. That's what should matter. The problem with the current keystones is that thunderlords is too generic and easy to use. Literally any champion type can use it because it just requires 3 hits. If it were something like 3 separate spells, it might be a different story.

Riot is capable of doing it. Just prod them to make sure they don't make another easy use damage passive.

Shuyin1782 votes

I've honestly always used Runic Armor for the increased healing from all sources. That 50 HP easily gets replaced by heals imo.

ntbcool2 votes

Yes at first keystones were a solved system, but with some changes they have become a lot more diverse. I think the real problem for old keystone was the difference between 2% life steal and some ad/ap is so minor no one cared to customize for the situation and for runes you just really couldn't because you couldn't change them. The New Rune system will give you less choices that have a bigger impact making it a lot easier and meaningful for people to go and make changes depending on the situation. Even know they call it Runes it's really just an update to Masteries and removal of Runes, so they can have more meaningful choices in it.

58697132DEL12 votes

that was like season 5/preseason 6? theyve been long since balanced. I dont see tanks not running courage or collossus, or marksman that pass up fury or bloodlust?

Much like idk, LITERALLY EVERYTHING IN LEAGUE, people will probably break a couple combinations on release, and subsequently rito will nerf them the few months of preseason.Hell thats LITERALLY the point of november-januaray. A chaotic slightly unabalanced crazy fest for Riot to shake up the game.

LordBrasca2 votes

I am 99% sure that these new keystone runes will fk up balancing for a long time. It has always been like this when you try to make something relevent enough to be gamechanger. Just look at what happened with masteries...

CoyoteTrang1 votes

{quoted}

I am 99% sure that these new keystone runes will fk up balancing for a long time. It has always been like this when you try to make something relevent enough to be gamechanger. Just look at what happened with masteries...

Happy i'm not the only that feels this way.

My concern with this is taking the passive stats from current runes is going to affect every champion, some worse than others. certain champs might need cdr or base attack speed for example and will be hindered immensely by it. not every champ is gonna be gimped in the same manner due to their kits preferring different stats. i believe it's going to lead to more balance issues and make the game pretty much the same as it is now, mostly cookie cutter choices that become the optimal choice. i think it's some hipster idea cause random people don't like the flat stats of runes now and want to personalize things more when in fact it's only gonna make it more of the same except with less choices.

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